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Q1 SP: Hrim_sp4 - For Love Of Evil!
So it's 2010 and I think it's about time for some releases! 8-)

Hrim_sp4 is made up of 4 maps.
One startmap, two turtlemaps and one bigger runic map!

The two small turtlemaps are:

Voidscape (From 2004)
Brownie (From around 2006)

The main map in this pack is:

For Love of Evil. (Build 2007-2009)

This map was first a speedmap that made it into a turtlemap and later became a fullgrown Quakemap.

The pack contains no new Qc or new monsters!
It's just me trying to get back to the roots, so no new fancy stuff here, only the good old progs.dat.

I hope you will have some fun with hrim_sp4.

OH! And a HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all!

Enjoy!

Download and screenshots:

http://hrimfaxi.dk/sider/hrsp4.htm
 
hehe, grats on the first release of the year. :P
i'll be back later with proper comments when i have the chance to play. i haven't even played tronyn+PM's mod yet. :S 
HAHAHA!!! 
YES!
will play, will love, will comment. 
Hmm 
I think the appropriate response here is "Fuck yeah." I've always liked your maps/style and I'm really looking forward to playing this. 
All Over This 
will make a good change from the rather frustrating Medal of Honor airborne too!! 
 
Hey, have some demos of my first run on skill 2: http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/hrim_sp4_negke_skill2.zip

The space map isn't so good. Nice rocks but it's very awkward to play because one easily slips off all the slopes.

The castle map is ok for a turtle map. The atrium could've used a bit more contrast and perhaps something like plant growth (for some reason this came into my mind).

The metal map is obviously the best of the pack. I liked the way the textures are used in many areas and the large scale. A few metal structures (platforms, bars etc) are too thin. Funky ambushes, especially the one with the Ogres and the lava felt refreshingly classic.

Neat little start map, too. 
 
wicked maps. the main one could be the best id metal level made so far! 
Shamblastic Maps!!! 
THIS IS QUAKE.

Hard, well balanced gameplay, the chance of surviving every map @ any skill level on first go, backtracking friendly, chock full o' secrets.
Main map is awesome.

The void one is very open and inventive, not too hard, did find a way to skip half of it. I will replay after jan 7th.

Brownie one has gorgeous looks, with a coupla mistakes in thickness of walls and stones, oh, well...

Hrim is my ultimate fave mapper. 
2nd Good News Of 2010 
I'm gonna play the map this afternoon: more comments later ;) 
Done !!! 
OK, I spent 45 mn playing the hole pack, and OMG ! It is awesome.

As said above: THIS is Quake spirit !

Start map is IMHO on of the best I've seen so far. Then map ranking is:

1/ For the Love of Evil
2/ Brownie
3/ Voidscape

Each map has its own ambiance, and that makes this small pack very diversified, and that is cool.
Oveall this is a normal Hrimfaxi style pack, as usual, something very good !

Please do not wait till next year to release your next one ;) 
Wow 
If anyone wants to coop, use some QW engine and -game hrim_sp4 +connect 188.40.157.14 . I might be around later. (arwop is too huge for the tiny server) 
Best Map Of The Year. 
this was a great pack - have to agree about the space map being somewhat awkward, but it was still pretty decent! I don't have time right now but I made a demo where I got fairly far into the big map before dying.
I'll do that soon - thanks again for the mappage dude, For the Love of Evil is fucking awesome. good job. 
Loveevil 
By the way, this map exceeds the edicts limit, so make sure to use an appropriate source port. Just saying, since this isn't mentioned in news post and text file. 
About The Main Map 
Very good execution of the metal theme. I had some creepy feelings while playing this. Especialy during the platform ride between the spikes. Gameplay was spot on. Thanks for that. There were so many good and tough set ups. I wonder though how it would look like without the GL secret early on.

I have played on skill 2. Died once. Here are the demos (joequake-gl)
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/love_ankh.zip

Also a brownie demo where I lose it all at the beginning :)
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/brownankh.zip 
Yeah, A Secret 
Great turtle, start maps, thanks :). In Voidscape, I saw that elusive platform.. but by the time i'd killed everyone, still hadn't found a way on to it. In Brownie, i needed that quad me-thinks.

Havent played much of FLOE yet. Looks very old school... but better. 
Nice One Hrimfaxi 
Looking forward to these. 
Great Maps, Thanks ! 
I loved the Love of Evil map.
The only think that pissed me off (a little) was the invisible wall by the elevator (high up), I tried jumping on one of the beams and hit it ...
I got all the secrets too, some nice ones there.

The Brownie map looks and plays fantastic, and I enjoyed the Voidscape too.

Great maps, the Startmap looks fantastic too ! 
 
Shambler, later rebb and I cooped a bit yesterday. These are my demos, use a QuakeWorld engine to watch (zquake works well).

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/hrim_sp4_spirit.7z (6 Megabytes)

brownie was buggy in coop, the others alright. 
Yeah. 
I gotta upload mine too. God knows what was going on. I have no idea how we got to the exit. All good fun tho, apart from the lava platform which was terrifying. 
Haha N1 
Playing coop and posting a demo on new maps is the way to go. Though you guys sucked big time. :D

What's that cheater client of yours, Spirit? Always printed weird status messages whenever you said something. 
 
I used ezquake and should have not used my DM config... Also I had no idea before that I had a location bind. 
Thanks !! 
Strange how you see a map when you have played and testet it over months (and years). Played and testet...played and testet.
(I guess it's the same for all mappers) You get very tired and bored of it, so much that when you at last release the map you think it's a boring and dull map nobody wil play.
As seen from your responses I must say it came as a surprise to me that so many liked the map so much.

Thank you! I really appreciate your comments.

Thanks negke for pointing at the bigger edicts count in hard.
I didn't se this happen. While building I was over the edicts edge several times but was able to lower the count again!
It must have been something I changed in the last hours before release that pushed it over the top, sorry I didn't notice it.
I will change the readme in the zip as soon as possible.

Ron: Yes I had some thoughts about putting the invisible wall there, since it is something I try to avoid (look at Voidscape there are several shortcuts in that map). But in the end I decided to put the wall there since it would bring the player a very long way towards the end of the level.
I remember there was a simmilar wall over a gate in Glassmans "Day of the lords" that caused several players to arsk for a "wallfree" release. Buts it is there... so be it!

Thank you for all your demos! I haven't had the time to watch any of them yet but will as soon I get the time!

Thanks to Spirit for putting up a coop server, it sounds like you had fun! Will surely look at the demos.

JPL well yes I hope to get some more maps out this year - if time permits it!
I have several that are allmost "there!"

So thats it from me this time folks!
Bye and thanks! 
Pretty Cool... 
all three maps are interesting. love of evil was my favorite of the bunch; really a solid, large metal map.

SPOILER:

I found a pretty large shortcut in the room with the quad and MH secrets, you can ramp jump and then climb the slanted girders from the second floor to the third floor, skipping both keys and going straight into the finale areas. 
Metl 
I think I did something vaguely like that by accident... 
Metlslime / Shambler 
Were you training for speed-running ? 
Errr No. 
Training for confusing spirit.

Why doesn't the demo play back in GLQW which I recorded it in?? 
He He 
Nice one melt - Shows that noone can stop a player 8-) 
JPL: 
no, i was just trying to get to the megahealth secret, so i was climbing/jumping on everything i could find. 
 
yeah i jumped up there too and found a fiend facing the wrong way so figured i better jump back down the way i came before i ruin the level for myself by skipping a large portion. 
Secrets 5/9 
I suck :-(
Highlights for me were the the platform along the bloody spiked hallway, and the intriguing architecture with jumpable angled beams. Gunna play them all again on hard :> 
You Suck? 
Highlights for me were the the platform along the bloody spiked hallway,

Were you dropped on your head as a baby?! 
Oi! 
Sucking's not too bad. 
No... 
...but like lava platform deathtrap bits is a bit...weird to say the least!! 
Heh 
I liked that bit too, very creepy.

Metal map was the best of the lot but I enjoyed the others too. Gameplay on Brownie needed more finetuning, especially the ending but loved the use of the undule textures in that map. Any plans for a full blown map in that style?

Lastly, small bug, after finishing Voidscape I ended back in the start map with all weapons which carried over to Brownie (nothing a quick console reload couldnt fix though). 
 
I loved that lava trap section - The abundance of interesting traps was an aspect that warmed my heart.

Then again, I always loved Xen, too. 
On Xen 
there was nothing wrong with xen except for it's placement within the game w/respect to pacing. the xen maps were cool. 
Fantastic! 
What a way to start 2010.
What are turtle maps anyway? 
 
they are like speedmaps in that they are made within a time limit, except instead of 1 or 2 hours, they are made in a week. 
Got Zquake Going. Ezquake Seemed To Work Too. 
Rebb: I'm standing on a spike
...
Spirit: I think he forgot spawn points

What a laugh %> 
Okay. 
I got Zquake and managed to watch my demo. Even if I do say so myself, the last 2 minutes of the main map and the return to the start map are pretty damn cool :).

How do I upload my demo and how do I watch spirits?? The 7Z file won't Dzip... 
 
LOL. 
What a good team we make. It's not so much the blind leading the blind as the remedial leading the spasticated.

You are allowed to dodge Fiends, BTW ;).

Also, I am a bastard, my "coop" consists of stealing all the supplies and encouraging you to go into dangerous situations first... 
Ta Da 
Finally... 
I finished these maps. My favorite was For Love of Evil, followed by Brownie, and then Voidscape.

FLoE had lots of great gameplay and nice balance between big, open areas and other interesting rooms/hallways connected together by vacuum tubes. The lava trap could have been executed a little better and the disappearing brushes bothered me a bit, but runic rocks!

Brownie had nice textures and interesting architecture albeit with a simple layout.

Voidscape left me a little too confused on where to go next.

Great stuff, Hrimfaxi! 
For Love Of Evil + Colored Lights 
thanks for this pack. i enjoyed all maps but let's face it - for the love of evil is by far the best one in this pack (even though i liked brownie too. reminds me the day of the lords, for me maybe the best q1 level ever created). i just wonder why mappers usually don't use colored lights in q1. hey.. i'm playing q1 since 97 so i can call myself oldschool but i don't think q1 has to be only black&gray game anymore. i generated lit file for floe and believe me or not - it looks just great! 
Upload It To Quaketastic 
Colored Lights Uploaded 
i've uploaded lit file with colored lights for the map "for love of evil" to www.quakestatic.com. i have also added into that zip lit file for level "day of the lords" - my personal favorite q1 map. lit files are generated by WinMHColour - thank you mh.

link here 
Thanks 
 
Too Difficult 
I saw this map at xmas (screenshots) and thought the last map 'For Love of Evil' looked really good. I downloaded the map and picked 'normal' skill level from the start map and spawned in. First thing that really annoyed me was I was already in combat with AI running at me.

I worked my way up through a corridor, into a large room, had some fun combat, down another corridor to a large room with a puzzle/crusher thing above. Was really low on ammo and got to unlock the next room and ran out of ammo. :/ Sadly at this point the skill level went crazy with tons of AI, hardly any ammo, health packs that required me to do long jumps from high places and fiends stomping on my head.

With the skill balance gone crazy, countless lava death traps, shamblers around several corners, I flicked on god mode and marched to the end. I really liked the ogre/floor puzzle, very cool, made me smile :) I still don't understand what is fun about being stuck in a small room with AI spawning down on my head ...

The visuals were really impressive because of the scale and the texture choices were cool. There was plenty of vertical up and over between areas and I liked want you did with the broken bridge leading towards the vore and the ogres raining grenades from above. 
Wierd 
I thought it was perfect. played on hard, never died, though I came close a couple times. 
Well 
I think sock's recent playing attempts can be pretty instructive to all of us in showing how "hardcore" we have become, perhaps too much. I totally agree with his assessment that Moldy Tower is the best out of the maps he's played recently in terms of what to play; if a person not used to modern Q1SP wanted something to play the first thing I'd say is The Living End/Elder World Waystation (Necros seems to strike an excellent balance between the tendencies manifest in modern Q1SP without going too far in any one direction).

Anyway, it prompts the question of are we just making Q1SPs for people who've already played a thousand of 'em, or do we want to appeal to a wider audience. 
Is There A Wider Audience Though? 
I doubt it. 
 
There sure is. How else could one explain how this map was downloaded more than 200 times from Quaddicted (even though it's officially on Hrim's site). 
Tronyn 
Good point. We often seem to forget how to use the difficulty settings properly - not subtle nuances but noticable changes. And it probably wouldn't hurt either to tone down the monster count on regular-sized maps in favor of well thought out encounters and environments that work together with AI and physics. 
 
Is There A Wider Audience Though? I doubt it.
Most PC gamers i know are so hardcore/pre-programmed, they just laugh at the idea of Q1. I laugh at most modern games :>. I just finished reading that bioshock guy's essay talking up Doom2, and it's all pretty spot-on. The fact no-one's really articulated these ideas for so long is kind-of symptomatic of the lack of analysis? that the industry has. Or the dominance of the industry by raw dollars.. or whatever.

And it probably wouldn't hurt either to tone down the monster count on regular-sized maps
Yeah... If you're thinking about any sort of audience wider than func, skill 0 should be very easy, and it should be the default. But the game industry was a little different back then, laugh. Our apple person for quakespasm.. first thing they said was "the mouse is broken". S - "Oh yeah... '+mlook'" 
@stevenaaus 
Most PC gamers i know are so hardcore/pre-programmed, they just laugh at the idea of Q1. I laugh at most modern games :>

I also know alot of people that are 'hardcore' and complete stuff on harder skill levels but that is the point of skill levels. If you initially find something too easy or too difficult then you change skill level. I think it is better for people to complete a level and have a rewarding experience than get frustrated and die alot. This is where the industry is moving towards, it is crazy the amount of people that give up before the end of a game and that situation should change. 
Lardarse 
Has been on a crusade for quite a while combating 'abusively difficult' gameplay in Q1SP.

I tend to ask a question to myself now - how few monsters can I make this fun with? 
 
I agree with everything said here.I think of like Koohoo or Nastrond though - even on hard those maps are pretty easy. and that's okay, because that is their style and sometimes I like to play those more spacious, atmospheric maps.

But other days I want to play StarkMon or whatever, a map where normal is hard, hard is nightmarish, and nightmare is insane.

I feel like it's like music - some people want to listen to like, Hammers of Misfortune, and others want to listen to like, Fukpig or something.

they can choose which concert to go to for themselves.

that's a shitty analogy. 
Tronyn 
THANK YOU!

Finally someone here realises that maps are becoming too hard... 
 
i think it's great to have someone like sock who isn't a stranger to the community yet hasn't been playing q1sp.
it gives a fresh view on everything. 
Sock 
Are you considering making anything in Quake?

And yeah, it's nice to hear a fresh viewpoint from a similar standpoint.

It's too easy to make stuff completely inaccessible, partly because of the size of the community, but mainly because the only way to get stuff really done is shut down on distractions and bury yourself in it.

So the original idea gets lost - the player and mapper are both supposed to have fun. 
Good Debate Guys. 
That.s all 
Stevenaaus 
I just finished reading that bioshock guy's essay talking up Doom2, and it's all pretty spot-on.

What essay is that? Sounds interesting. 
 
Thanks Spirit 
 
Ijed 
I have been meaning to play Q1SP maps for sometime but never got around to getting Q1 again. What with the recent steam midweek madness I thought I would take a trip down memory lane and play some old classic Q1.

The thing I find the most shocking is how everyone has forgotten what skill levels actually mean. There are 4 skill levels available and they should be a well thought out progression with noticeable differences like AI, health and pickups in different places.

I am really tempted to make a Q1SP but I am short on time at the moment and just happy to play Q1 and give my rather cranky feedback instead! :P 
Hah 
Well, seems to have caused some re-evaluations on difficulties.

Did you ever play the classic mods? Zerstorer, Insomnia, OUM, Nehahra etc.

Although Nehahra is a big spike in difficulty - the Ai is very fast and pretty close to being clever. 
Doom2 /bioshock 
The actual essay is here
http://vectorpoem.com/news/?p=74 
Hard Should Be Abusively Difficult 
any debate about it becoming 'too hard' is pretty much invalid because well, there's a clue in the name. so i'm assuming it's skill 1 people are complaining about, in which case, fair cop 
Well! 
Lots of good comments from everybody!
And lots of good points from Sock.
I'm sure everybody can learn from it.

Maybe I/we have become so used to hard combat that we forget to make a bigger difference between normal and hard skill levels.

Anyway it has been interesting to read Socks comments on the different maps he has played recently! 
No, That's Nightmare 
Or "beyond nightmare", if you have a mod that has this.

Believe it or not, it's possible to be hard without being abusive. If you ever need convincing of this, just play through e2m5rmx on skill 2... 
 
You do know that rj made e2m5rmx himself, right? 
 
I think Lardarse knows a couple of things. Apart from that, I think abusive can't be reinterpreted to mean "good". Abusive is bad.

I didn't find For Love of Evil abusive though, by and large. 
Hrm 
i was drunk when i posted that, clearly.

i think what i was trying to get across was that if people want to make their maps excessively difficult so only the true elite can beat them, then all the power to them. providing they keep this to skill 2 & use skills 1/0 to cater for the more casual player then this shouldn't be a point of criticism

(this is coming from someone who generally plays on skill 1) 
And 
i did enjoy this map. i died loads, but never in an annoying way. if that makes sense 
OTP 
Yes, and I also know that I was one of the testers for e2m5rmx...

One of the things that I liked about the map, when I was testing it, was that I was able to complete it the first time I played it, on both Normal and Hard. 
Void Speedrun 
 
You can't say that nightmare should be really evil but hard shouldn't be, because you can't customise nightmare.

You might end up with a large gap between skill 1 and skill 2 but there isn't really a way round that. 
 
Also Hrimfaxi where's that fuck off huge base level I seem to recall you posting shots of? :p 
Omfg 
I don't remember this at all. Must play. 
ZealousQuakeFan 
That map is still in the works.
But I haven't had much time to map the past few months.
But it will be finished at some point! 
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