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RAGE
The upcoming game from id Software.

http://www.rage.com/


RAGE Behind the Scenes
Warning, these seem to contain quite a lot of spoilers. :-(
Pt. 1: The Legacy of id
Pt. 2: The Dawn
Pt. 3: The Arsenal
Pt. 4: The Wasteland
Pt. 5: The Enemy
Pt. 6: The Sound and Art

Gameplay Trailers
Gearhead Vault Gameplay Trailer
Official Trailer - Uprising
The Well Official Gameplay Trailer
The Shrouded Official Gameplay Trailer
Gameplay Trailer - Dead City
GameSpot Stage Shows - Rage (PC, PS3, Xbox 360) - Pre E3 2011 Interview
Untethered Trailer

There are more videos from Quakecons and on random gaming sites but I could not be arsed to hunt them down.
http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/06/13/e3-rage-roundup/

Other stuff
Gigantic screenshots at http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2010/07/01/rage-wallpapers-now-available/
Normal ones at http://www.rage.com/media/downloads/

Collection of previews at the annoying bethblog (i was born in 1861!) http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/08/03/new-hands-on-impressions-for-rage/

http://static.zenimax.com/bethblog/upload/2011/05/307200143.jpg


I wish I wasn't such a DRM-opposer and would throw away money for the latest greatest hardware. What about you?
Good Topic. 
I'm excited. I'm a DRM supporter, and will probably buy this at release time rather than waiting for a year or two and huge price drop as usual. 
 
Rage looks good. I wasn't aware there was any great DRM controversy around it though?

I don't like piracy or copyright theft, but I also think current DRM is blighted by some of the most daft concepts ever and should be dropped completely until a less ridiculous solution can be found. 
Can't Wait. 
Also, can't afford to keep up with the PC rat-race and haven't for a few years.

That said, this'll be a day one purchase for me and my 360. 
 
this is a game i think i probably would buy for full price, but my machine is about 5 years old now, so it's pretty shit and it would feel almost like a waste to play rage on such a bad rig.
i'm planning on doing a full upgrade next year some time, so i'll probably be picking it up then.

also, there's a little room on the bottom for another icon... 
Hmm 
I thought PC gaming was less of a rat race these days due to the dominance of consoles (and there fixed hardware profiles) within the gaming marketplace and the prevalence of cross-platform development.

Also, what DRM controversy? 
 
Fuck me you can paint on textures like the paintbrush in photoshop!!! That editor looks awesome. 
 
The DRM is "just" Steam. Most people seem to love that. I have not changed my mind about it.

Rage looks exceptional. Except maybe for the often quite low resolution textures. A shame really but I guess that is a trade-off for the uniqueness (which is overally a much better thing I think).

Combat looks kinda shit. But maybe people will make awesome mods. It sucks that level creation will be next to impossible. 
 
but will it have tools for mapping? 
 
It looks awesome. I'll definitely be buying it; I have no idea if I'll be able to run it but it will still be the most awesome looking slideshow I've ever owned.

I'm pretty "meh" about Steam. Couldn't care two flying ones about DRM either way, but the whole end-user experience of the program is just sluggish, unpleasant and confusing. 
Post 
Carmack (iirc) said just bring down the console and enter ' id studio' and bam, you're in the editor. 
 
^ Only in the x64 build, which won't be released at launch. 
Seriously? 
Wtf. 
 
the editing suite is x64 only? but the game runs of x86 right?

the editor always looked completely integrated with the game in demos of it... i'm kind of surprised. 
 
k, so after my instinctive post...

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/05/05/rage-to-ship-with-full-level-editor-id-studio/

seems to confirm jt's post. no mention about being delayed after launch. 
 
I remember hearing somewhere that the 64 bit is going to ship later; probably from Carmacks QuakeCon keynote or something like that.

At a guess I'd say that it's fine for inhouse use but might have some rough edges that make it not quite suitable yet for release to the general public.

Makes sense that the editor would be 64 bit only; we are talking about huge datasets here. 
As I Understand It 
I think it will be very difficult to create new levels from scratch for Rage because none of the source textures will come packed with the game.

If I understand it right, the way Rage maps are built is that they are textured similarly to any other game, but then the artists can use "stamps" to modify and change every single pixel of texturing on the map and then save that out as a megatexture, which is then chopped up into many many bitesize chunks that the engine streams in and out during runtime. That process leaves the source textures unobtainable I think.

Maybe I'm wrong about the basic texturing of the levels too, maybe it's all stored in a megatexture right from the start before any stamping is done, I have no idea :P

Either way, that leaves 3rd party level designers with no textures to work with, unless id releases the source textures as a downloadable pack. 
 
oh, ok, i see what you mean. that's pretty bad honestly... i mean, for a title that's going to require top of the line hardware, how can you not release the 64 bit version? are they expecting fans to buy the 32 bit version first and then get the 64 bit version later? or is it just a matter of a small patch with a x64 executable or something?
also, i don't really understand exactly how windows alocates ram, but does that mean that rage, as a 32 bit application can't use more than 3.5gb of ram? 
 
Well Rage as a 360 title can't use more than 512 MB either (the PS3 is even worse because of the way it partitions it's memory). Word is that a GeForce 8 series is the minimum requirement; my suspicion for a long time is that the kind of rendering the engine does is actually extremely efficient (although as always there are tradeoffs in exchange for that). 
Yeah 
I got the impression from things Carmack has said that the number of processor cores actually affects the framerate a fair amount, he said that the more cores you have, the more processing threads are available to transcode the megatextures as you move and look around the environment.

Also yeah, it runs on a ps3/360 so I'm not really concerned with performance on even a mid-range pc at this point. Maybe the graphics are enhanced on the pc version in some areas but overall I imagine the system requirements will be around the same as recent UE3 titles or crysis 2 etc. 
 
Thats quite interesting... anyway give me the editor, I dont even need the textures - can always make your own, use free ones or make minimalistic maps 
 
I'll also buy it after my next system upgrade. This is a game that I'll probably simply want to have.

Editor - I don't care, there are enough choices for me to make kickass levels (and games) with already. idtech4 just became 4x as interesting with the announced engine release anyway.

No one can argue that idtech4 games look bad - brink looked excellent. So I don't really want this for mapping. Just for a gorgeous slideshow, yeah. 
 
And I also thought that combat looked a bit slow in the videos I saw. 
Idtech4 
idtech4 games can look good, but doom3\q4 editor is frankly the worst mapping tool since Hammer editor

Compared to Cod4 tools or even good old GtkRadiant it was a torture and a crashfest. 
 
I use Radiant for basic idtech4 mapping. The built-in editor is only required for stuff like lights editing, insofar as GTKRadiant doesn't support it. I guess DarkRadiant would, though. 
 
but doom3\q4 editor is frankly the worst mapping tool since Hammer editor

never had any problems with it except the gui editor in D3 because it was in an almost beta state (the Q4 gui editor was fine).

Well Rage as a 360 title can't use more than 512 MB either (the PS3 is even worse because of the way it partitions it's memory). Word is that a GeForce 8 series is the minimum requirement; my suspicion for a long time is that the kind of rendering the engine does is actually extremely efficient (although as always there are tradeoffs in exchange for that).

i had no idea the 'latest' consoles had such low specs, tbh...
maybe i'll just go ahead and pick it up then... :) 
 
As far as I understand, console memory is one reason why "multiplatform" games aren't released with PC-quality content.

Crysis 2 for PC was patched after release to get around this, IIRC. Perfectly viable approach. 
Russians... 
 
<whisper>He isn't russian</whisper> 
 
but... but it says professional russian on his shirt! 
Hence... 
... my mistake... sorry for this... 
YAY? 
Minimum

OS: Win XP SP3, Vista, Win 7
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo or Equivalent AMD
Memory: 2GB
Hard Disk Space: 25GB
Video Card: GeForce 8800, Radeon HD 4200

Recommended

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad or Equivalent AMD
Memory: 4GB
Video Card: GeForce 9800 GTX, ATI Radeon HD 5550 
25 Gb HDD 
I think it's safe to say that the PC version is bigger than the console versions. I heard that the 360 version is going to be a single disc, rather than 2 discs, as originally suggested. 
Wow 
i'm kind of excited to see how the 25gb of assets pans out in the game. 
I Imagine 
20gb of it are megatextures for each level :) 
I Know 
what i meant was it will be refreshing to see all the uniqueness (i hope?) that we will get out of iD's system. 
 
No matter how good this game is, it's been 7 years since Doom 3. I'd actually prefer they spat out a good game every couple years rather than a great game every 7.

Maybe they've got quite far with Doom4 development as well, which will make up for it. 
Isn't... 
RAGE = Doom 3.5 ? 
 
Not really. Well. If you think that because it's an FPS it is then perhaps but it's more like an iD shooter shagged Bioshock and Fallout 
Jackal Canyon Trailer 
 
Apart from the ultra shit music that was a very promising trailer and god are those environments beautiful. The stones in the beginning before he steps on that bridge, wow. 
 
I think the graphical quality has been kinda weird. The characters are always super high quality, which looks a bit weird when at times the environment around them has horribly low-res textures (see the office of the guy in the subway, can't remer which vid that is).
I dunno if this is something about the tech, or just the 360 version or what. 
 
no horse blinders this time! i really hope they're an option in the settings somewhere.

and also, totally agree about the rocks at the start. if the whole game has attention to detail like that..... yikes! 
 
This is looking more and more mouth-wateringly awesome by the day.

They've kept the same old brutal and savage ID gunplay but added some subtle twists. I like.

Exploding barrels. :) It wouldn't be an ID game without them (needs more crates though).

Even the driving sections looks as though they're gonna be considerably less annoying than I had initially feared.

Roll on October! 
 
i wonder how much the increased detail is the engine tech (mega textures, crazy awesome editing suite) and how much is the sheer amount of artists they must be throwing at this thing. 
 
My money is on artists. ETQW also had megatextures but wasn't that detailed at all, simply because of a lack of assets and pretty lazy indoor level design. 
 
but of course, more horsepower = can run more stuff at the same time, so the two feed off each other. 
Well 
the only compaint I have with that vid is the damage feedback screen, I'm not a fan of tinting the screen red and then blurring everything. 
Well., 
That looks pretty fucking badass. My excitement is not diminishing at all.

Interesting to watch this one back to back with the City trailer (still the most impressive by far). The contrast in the enviroments, monsters, and gameplay style shows an impressive variety...

Release day purchase for me I think. 
Yes 
It looks pretty good.

I hope they hired some lead designers this time. 
Preloading On Steam 
"only" 21gb :p. it's been downloading at a steady 1.6mb/s for an hour now, should be done in about 2 more. 
Ooooh Yeah. 
Delivery estimate: 7 Oct 2011
1 "RAGE (PC DVD)"
DVD-ROM; �25.70
Available for pre-order 
But You're Supposed To Preorder The Anarchy Edition 
Same price, more stuff. 
Negke, 
I was, but it disappeared off Amazon UK. Will recheck... 
Yup. 
Still not available. Errr the only thing I'd miss is the double shotty, not fussed. 
I Dont Get It 
Game 'DLC' or 'extras' or 'add-ons' which equate to adding a few extra guns to a game. Especially when it is at launch!

Just release the bloody game in it's entirety. Stop trying to milk everyone for so much coinage. And help irredicate l33ti$t scum, with their 'special' gaming. Bleh. 
Not To Say I'm Not Going To Order The 
Anarchy edition from steam, and commence downloading, when I get home. 
Bler 
Like I said. I was foolish enough to cancel my A.E preorder. Maybe they received so many requests that they're out of stock for now or something.

Yeah, the whole micro-DLC thing is pretty silly. 
 
ricky, micro-transactions man. they are the future! :P 
Exclusive Preorder Content 
breaks games. I've lost count of the times I've seen or heard people complain that the Deus Ex Preorder content horribly unbalanced the game because they started with a super powerful weapon and enough extra credits to buy two major augmentations.

So I think I'll save some pennies and play the game the way it was balanced to play. 
 
this looks amazing. but given my pc chokes on doom 3 at the moment it isn't going to get played any time soon 
Alright 
A.E. is available again on Amazon.co.uk 
Reviews Are In 
 
that review sounds quite butthurt about rage being a different game than what he expected. also keep in mind that the reviews so far are from consoles, obviously a bad platform for fps (unless you like that modern fps cancer that apparently even rage got a bit...). I'll wait for pc reviews, since that's how proper fps are played. I know that id said they focused on consoles but how could you play properly if you cannot even strafe and aim well at the same time (or can you, on a controller)... 
 
What a tard that reviewer is... 1/4 of his review is complaining about having to use quicksave, and in failing to do so being taken back too far when he dies. No mention of the graphics and art, the gameplay. Just moaning about there not being enough story and RPG. Fuck. 
 
IGN's is a bit more accurate (not that i've played it)... 8.5/10. They gave graphics a 10/10 yaya! I don't really care if it has no story anyway. 
 
meh, couldn't stop myself from reading more. pragmagic.tumblr.com/post/11011110177/musings-on-rage is nice. 
Omg 
Steam is taking forever to decrypt the damn files, I know there's 21gb of crap, and my hd is kinda slow, but come on.. 
 
Some of them go so far as to force you to drive to a location, hit a button, and then drive back to tell someone you hit a button.

That sounds like inept design of the highest order. Its criminal how this level of tard still happens in most modern games.

We've upgraded the tech, but nobody has the clout or sense of direction to say 'this isn't fun'. 
Kona 
The save system was just a small part of the negativity he showered on the game.

Which is valid - autosaving was 'invented' in HL1 which came out in 1998.

The most telling thing he says is "unsatisfying gunfights". For a shooter, that's pretty dire.

He also states he's played the game for 9+ hours, which means it can't be that crap, but also inclines me to trust his opinion - many reviewers spent at most an hour playing before they trash something. 
Blerg 
I wonder if I will enjoy it more than Duke3D. Meh - Skyrim? That'll be awesome, surely. 
 
Well if you have been reading the steam forums, I am one of those guys who is having a lot of problems with Rage. First it crashed to desktop, which the ATI Rage hotfix drivers solved, but then the very pathetic graphics options of: Resolution, Windowed/Fullscreen, Anti Aliasing, and Brightness. That's it. There is tons of things popping in when you look left/right, artifacts, screen tearing, and generally it doesn't look nearly as good as I thought it would. Probably something I could fix if I had the proper graphics options available to me.

I am thinking of holding off on playing this for a while at least until someone solves it or id fixes it, because right now on my system it's pretty crap. 
 
ijed, are you saying games with such objectives are not fun? Most games boil down to mechanics like that. The wrapping might be different. 
So Far 
I'm in between classes right now, so I decided to see if I could get rage to decrypt all of the way; I press 'play' in steam, the decrypting window pops up at 32% where it left off and it's done in 5 minutes :p. On my thinkpad, on about 75% battery I was getting about 35fps in the very beginning of the game (I saved and quit once I got my gun from hagar). The opening dialog with him was somewhat awkward, I'll have to wait until I get home to play some more. 
No 
But those kind of clunky mechanics were pioneered in Breath of Fire and the like, its stupid that it hasn't been improved.

Although I haven't played Fallout, I did play the Witcher, which was supposedly a modern RPG with all the awesome modernness.

It has the same crap going on - 'I can't talk to you yet because you didn't talk to another guy'.

Not a lot to do with Rage, which is why I highlighted on the 'weak shooting'.

And it seems it's having lots of technical problems as well?

Is it fun Zwif? 
Hmph 
What gives you hope the current id software has learnt to make good games ? Rage seems to be a stinker, at least when set against what id should be able to achieve.
Great tech, shit game, Doom3 again...

Looks like cashgrab theme and design, consolisation etc.
Maybe to fund a decent Doom4 on the new engine, that would be the day...yeah, hope, we always got that eh.

When are you #tf chaps founding an indie company and bringing us a truly awesome old school new tech FPS ? 
Tweaks. 
O Dear ... 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5oEdfT4OWY

What's the reason for slow texture build ?
I've had it with some Far Cry games too, but the benchmarks always say my card is alright.
I use a GTX 470.

Anyway, this is really bad though. 
 
I just saw that clip was recorded on a laptop though. But there are some other bad ones around. 
 
Nice, bler. I will tweak some of those when I get home. 
Here's A Good Review 
http://www.gamingexcellence.com/pc/games/2493/review.shtml

By good I mean they thought Rage was good. 
 
...on the other hand it all means that we're going to start getting good OpenGL drivers from ATI/AMD again. Well, "good" so long as your program does the same kind of stuff that Rage does, of course... 
 
Well, no Rage for me, thank you Ati\ID.
Just watching streams playing it and its ok, but not amazing. 
 
also lol @ Killes strikes back
some things never change 
 
oh and
objective/obstacles
challenge/reward
basic old shit and it works, its how you implement it - thats whats important 
Anyone Mention This Easter Egg Yet? 
Hahahah 
oh man, I love it :)

that guy needs to shutup though! 
Just Came Here To Post That! 
I would also like to punch that man in the cunt for his stupid voice 
I Got This 
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/screen_shots/rage.jpg

when i'm trying to play the rage
and after i've set antialiasing other than none/disable (2x,4x,8x, 16x) the game is crashed to desktop. does someone know how to solve that issue?

my videocard gtx470, with 275.33 drivers 
 
Try updating your nvidia drivers to the current beta 285.<something> release. 
Rage Easter Egg 
wow, just for this I'll buy the game !!
.
.
.
.
... and a new computer :P 
Performance Tips 
DaZ 
i fixed that issue by turning on vsync on nvidia control panel, but antialiasing still doesnt work it crashes to desktop 
Oh And I Dont Have 
any lags, the game runs smooth and fast as wolf2009, whis is surprised 
 
HAHA that's awesome. I wish they made that start level area look 2011 though. The way it looks there I might as well just play Quake. Still awesome though. 
 
The Doom and Wolf easter eggs are also available - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybq3yfL2L9I

Quake is of course the best, but I didn't need to say that. ;) 
Vsync On Nvidia Control Panel 
Spy, I had that same problem with MoH 2010.
And good to hear it runs well on the GTX 470 !

Nice to see ID hasn't forgotten what made them big ! Love the Quake start secret ! 
 
Innovation is definitely not what I'd expect from an id shooter - I rather expect solidly executed conservative shooter gameplay with the latest eyecandy features.

If that's what Rage does, then I might eventually get it. Sometime.

No linux client though, right. Oh well, that just means it has to get in line with the other Windows shooters I intend to buy. Sometime. 
I'm Digging It 
My biggest balk with RAGE is the linearity -- in both the missions and most of the maps, which are clipped beyond belief -- but one would expect this from any other console game. But I am having a blast playing it. I am hoping like hell you can still have the roam of the land after the campaign finishes, since there are several sidequests and areas I'd love to revisit. Speaking of which, found the Quake room (with help from that annoying video), and am going for the DOOM one next. 
 
Runs fluently on my old rig. AMD Athlon II X2 250, nvidia 8800GTX on Wine. Texture pop-ups are just a bit too much though and so far the game did not impress me too much.

Played the first mission.

Bullshit:
-The unskippable intro sequences
-The menu. Mouse speeds are all wrong and the menu is slow to use (console crap, just like UT3 had).
-The UI. I could not figure out how to use grenades.

Bad:
-Protagonist feels like a little sissy. Get hurt stepping down a 1m step. Screams like a girl when I crash the buggy yet there is no (other) punishment of doing that.
-I also cannot stand that US soldier look. Immediately anti-reaction.
-Health seems irrelevant and auto-generating? There is not even a display.
-The wingstick minigame was a trivial joke. Console design for controller aiming.
-Environments are indeed super static. There is nothing you can move or destroy.
-Clipping is done badly and obviously. There are steps you cannot jump over when there are other places with the same height where you can. And the first driving sequence was ended with a fucking joke, look at that HUGE EDGE! http://i.imgur.com/t2BNd.jpg You have to dismount. They could have made a bit more believable at least...
-Binding the Z and Y keys is broken on a QWERTZ layout.
-The music is really really bad. While some small cues were nice, the background music is like a cheap amateur horror movie soundtrack. Really bad. I will turn it off even if I miss "immersion and subtle cues" by that. Stupid cheap orchestra. No connection to a wasteland at all.
-The first mission had a huge areal but it was a corridor mission on fast rails. No interconnectivity. Might be just the first mission. :-) But it felt like a huge waste. I think the engine would rock for explorative games (apart from the staticness).
-When I returned from the mission that Hagar guy said something like "you already noticed, we got hit by mutants". Well, no, I did not notice anything.
-Weapon feedback is shallow so far. Doom3 was much better. The blood looks weird, like plastic goo. No gore at all (I feel weird saying this, but I actually miss it while I normally hate it).

Good:
-You do not HAVE to aim over sight, just firing with the UI crosshair is accurate and easy.
-Loading is quite fast. Loading the wasteland takes ~10 seconds for me. Loading that first mission is 6s.
-Characters seem great so far. Good looks, good voices.

Awesome:
-Once the textures are fully loaded (fractions of a second for me, I did not yet try any tricks) the looks are just amazing. But as I said, all you can do is look at it. Clipping/steep surfaces are everywhere. 
8800GT Even 
 
Holy Shit 
To hardskip those stupid unskippable intro videos:
+set com_skipIntroVideo 1

Force v-sync:
+r_swapInterval 1

To disable the texture popups this worked for me (on my "high-end" 8800GT, heh. From http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1236250-rage-support/page__p__18743528#entry18743528 :
+vt_maxPPF 8
+vt_pageImageSizeUnique 8192 +vt_pageImageSizeUniqueDiffuseOnly 8192 +vt_pageImageSizeUniqueDiffuseOnly2 8192

runs well and I have no noticable texture popups anymore. I do get some super quick hiccup every now and then though. Will have to see how it turns out.

Haven't yet managed to get a FPS display.
+set com_showFPS 1
did not do anything. 
 
I did that popin fix but I still get crazy popins for textures and models, and the textures themselves look like shit. Also the game crashes when I try to load a mission on the dam - when I try to enter the door and load the next map it just never loads.

So far I am highly disappointed with Rage, and I wasn't even expecting anything great, just some solid shooter. This is sub-id quality so far, at least on my machine. 
 
Ok, not fluent but almost tolerable FPS.


played another 2 missions, it is getting worse. Modern FPS crap. Enemies are standing in cover and you are playing whack the mole (or moorhuhn). Gimmicky miniboss battle down in that garage. Indoors are utterly confusing. Picking up more junk. Getting bombarded with things (forge this, speak to that guy, now you have 2 missions, rush through that place) and the UI does not help. There is some kind of inventory which you toggle with TAB. If you hit ESC you get the menu. Some in-game hints are "popup windows" where you have to move the mouse to click accept, ESC does not work. The menu is super delayed and shit, you get a "press enter" logo screen all the time. Quick weapon change menu also is controlled with the mouse which means you cannot use it quickly (like with I guess the analog sticks on the console). Also you do need to use iron sight. Bleh. Mission design was just so that I fought through several stories of a building and then LUCKILY got out somewhere else where another buggy was standing so I could drive back the canyon home. The cute girl whose crotch I was staring at earlier is not in the town anymore, I guess she was killed in that incident I totally did not notice earlier.


You guys are probably used to this but for me it is just plain annoying. This has nothing of an id shooter. It is a (so far) not well designed and clunky attempt of a standard modern FPS with some hub design and vehicle gimmicks. 
 
see, I knew it! 
Spirit - Sounds Great! 
Lol, seriously though, my copy will unlock in about three hours. And from what I have heard it will take another hour to initialise.

Some of the things you have mentioned do sound fairly annoying. However I am still not perturbed. I gather that this game is pretty much huge (as in there are a lot of hours of gameplay there) so maybe it will progress into something a bit more challenging.

The UI 'beef' you have mentioned is mostly the sort of thing which can be patched (slow mouse in menu, key layouts dont work, mouse required for weapon cycle). And I am expecting a BIIIIIG patch. You can tell that is going to happen just by reading the internet, which is full of posts like yours, only some (most) are a lot less constructive.

Atleast there is still Quake LIVE!!! :D

Speaking of which, in my Quake LIVE all of my enemies are green and identical. Is that just to make the game more fair? If so then GAYYYY!!!!! 
I Read 
in a review that total gameplay with side quests is under 10 hours. 
Building An Engine Is One Thing ... 
I don't think there are any creative people left at ID.

The way they were banging on about how great this was going to be ...
And then you get this.

A Borderline clone with no room for exploration.

I played the 1st missions on hard.
I only got killed by the game for wandering off.
Fucking hell, this is BAD ! 
 
Yeah the first mission thing. I wandered off too and got killed, I assumed it was because I got sniped or something, but now it seems like clip was replaced by trigger_hurt 1000000. 
RAGE Lol 
There's irony in the name.

I, personally, live in the UK, and here it is now October 7th. I have waited for the damn thing to launch. Steam said 2 hours to go at 5 to midnight, and now it is half 12 and it says 1 hour to go. Bleh - the buggers cant even tell time!!! 
 
commencing decrypting

I updated the drivers as well, but the installer hung in the latter phase. I think it will be alright......maybe? 
Zwiffle 
IDK, but according to Steam, Biff has spent 17 hours on it. 
 
what does the game's file structure look like? is it too much to hope it's standard id style archives that are renamed .zips with easy to modify files? 
 
Well, base directory is 2.5gig, virtual textures is 11.4, and mp is another 7 gig again.

Looks more like an Unreal style set up to me. Lots of files in all the folders.

ps it ran for about an hours and then crashed, now crashed on starting again... dear dear iD, for me you had such a flawless record for stability up till now :P 
The Bugs 
are very surprising IMHO! 
 
Get over it, since some key memebers left id (or were devoured by their ego, whatever) its all been pretty much smelly pants other than tech wise.

Anyone been playing E.Y.E ?

Oh and the protagonists metrosexual pretty macho boy look in the new DeusEx so puts me the fuck off (and its marketing that decided on that wanker, I am sure).
At least they got a mod to get rid of the piss filter, only nvidia though for now. That and a new skin for the dudes face and I'll give it a go. 
Heh 
Killes, your just jealous cause Adam Jensen looks sexier than you do. (No really, I don't see the problem, he looks believable and fine, the face has character, more so than many other FPS heroes).

I'm still trying to finish downloading Rage, but not really expecting so much really, just kind of curious of seeing the tech in action. 
 
so do you HAVE to dl 20gb+ to get rage on steam? if so, that's insane. bring back real dvd's.

i pay a fortune just to get 60gb bandwidth a month in nz, and that goes pretty damn quick with torrents. 
Kona 
You can still buy it on dvds obviously... 
 
k so I'm basically stuck at the first safe-town thingy. If I drive out to the right the game crashes, if I drive out to the left it crashes... both locations I've previously been to to do missions. I actually reloaded an old save and replayed the whole hour or so again but it still crashes at the same point.

Haven't even managed to compare the normal shotgun to the DLC shotgun yet :p

The engine is weeeeeeird. Often it looks like someone has randomly set certain textures to the wrong render mode, or bits of geometry are in uber-low LoD all the time. Also the environments have no physics objects. You can't bat monitors off tables or even smash vases, which these days strikes me as fairly shocking since that's just a default feature of modern physics engines and generally assumed interactivity :E

Combat, to early to tell. The structure I don't really mind, it's just a slight expansion on a linear shooter which I can dig tbh, but people are right in that the clipping is pretty retarded. There is no reason why you couldn't climb around a bit more than they let you :( 
Rage 
It's not only the tech though, is it? I'd say it's spending more years than most can afford achieving a silly high quality content density. A shame they seem to do that while not giving gameplay enough focus but that's kind of a industry wide problem only iD seem to be taking it to the extreme.

I'm wondering how wise it was to step out of the engine licensing business - I think it will be a lot harder/less likely that they will invest enough in keeping the whole tool chain competitive with Bethesda studios only compared to what's going on with UDK and maybe cryengine. Carmack probably has a lot to offer still but unless they have a strong tool focus to go with it I think they will be less productive than many competitors in the future. 
The Graphics Are Good 
Very organic. But the textures dont seem particularly hi-res. Some of the lighting and subtle DOF effects, along with the LD as a whole is jaw dropping. The enemies and gameplay are not as bad as I thought, I definitely prefer this to Borderlands. After updating the drivers to the 'hotfix', everything runs almost perfectly, the hanging flags artefact for me, but before i installed the hotfix driver I had a lot of texture popping and character popping, and before I used the vsync commandline thing I had a lot of tearing. Also some flickering artefacts. But that is gone now. Just the flags that I noticed. And only in one place. Fudzilla rekons they are working on a comprehensive patch which will include graphics settings in the menu. And if Fudzilla says it, it must be true (not)!!!

The clipping seems a little weird, but it doesn't bother me too much. It seems you cannot toss yourself from a building. And some places are inaccessible.

I have not been insta-killed for wandering off yet. 
I Actually Dont Think This Was A Waste Of Money 
Big weekend of gaming ahead!!! 
 
Any idea if there are mods yet? I would really like some bunny/superman mod where you can properly explore the wasteland.

In Wellspring now. Go there, go there, go there, bleh. They should let go of whoever is responsible for the story/progressin design, truly terrible.
Character models start to re-appear now which is a huge shame, only spotted 2 duplicates so far, that should have been easy to avoid. Characters are jaw-dropping great otherwise.

Did some racing for Stanley, first 2 were piece of cake, 3rd is hard, havent nearly done it yet. The mandatory race was easy too. UI is still terrible for everything and so annoying to use that I do not voluntarily buy or forge things. 
WE DESIGNED SILLY MINIGAMES AND WE WILL MAKE YOU PLAY THEM 
What kind of stupid crap is Mutant Bash TV? 
It's Almost As Good As DN3D's Turd Throwing 
 
I Mean DN4E 
 
 
Okay apparently my drivers weren't as up to date as I thought they were. Seems to work fine now. Got off lightly I guess :E 
 
What kind of stupid crap is Mutant Bash TV?

What shall I do with this one, Aphrodite? He doesn't play my minigames! 
 
Installing from DVD right now. The DVD version is Steam-integrated (which is bollocks - surely with PC games being so marginal these days a bit of leeway could be afforded?) An hour to go! Eeeek! 
 
Installed and just ran around a little. A few texture pop-ins but a quick driver update fixed that (no other fixes needed) and it looks stunning and runs very fast for me.

I second what Spirit said about the menus. The constant "Press Enter" thing is also annoying, and I hope a future patch will remove that.

I can't seem to get the console working. Either com_allowConsole is broken or the console key is not easily discoverable (or unbound) - the usual suspects do nothing.

Steam integration is still as annoying as ever. 
Oh God 
It's german only. Fuck you Bethesda. I have already regretted installing windows 7 many times over. The dimwittedness of this operating system is incredible. Holy shit. And the game is german only... 
Mh 
just add com_allowConsole 1 to your default.cfg

and press tilda , console works well 
Just Add Com_allowConsole 1 To Your Default.cfg 
Did that, didn't work.
+set com_allowConsole 1 in Steam's launch options also not working.
+com_allowConsole 1 in launch options not working.
set com_allowConsole 1 in cfg file not working.
seta com_allowConsole 1 in cfg file not working.
com_allowConsole 1 in cfg file not working.
Neither default.cfg nor rageconfig.cfg work.
Binding a key to "toggleconsole" not working.
The usual console key (` on my keyboard) not working.

There has to be an extra piece of info that's missing here and that everyone is assuming is known. 
I Was Wrong ... 
it's actually quite a nice game.

That's the trouble with the internet: people sometimes speak too soon ... 
Question 
about vt_maxPPF, everybody's talking about 8 or 16 value, i got vt_maxPPF 128 is it bad or what? should i decrease that value to 8 or 16, and i got gpu trancecode enabled if it makes sense 
 
It seems as though vt_maxPPF is only for single or dual core machines; it limits the number of texture pages that are transcoded per-frame on the CPU to the specified number (which should be a power of 2). GPU transcode (which I'm using too) should make it's value irrelevant. 
This Is Annoying 
I changed something in the registry to swap caps lock and control, yet rage refuses to honor it... 
Ron 
Everyone loves a bandwagon :)

So, skippable or not? 
[SPOILER] Just Finished RAGE, And [SPOILER] 
As mentioned in some reviews, the ending totally blows. It feels totally tacked-on and last-minute, wrapping everything up in a particularly vague video. And you cannot go back and re-visit any of the game world after, so go have at it before you go to "Capital Prime" (otherwise known as "Series of Shiny hallways".

I'd love to know why id thought such an ending was even passable, especially after seven years to work on the damned thing. 
Great Tech, Amazing Visuals, Plenty Of Detail 
Taking A Ride 
Ijed, I was confused.
1st the wagon was going praise full speed ahead.
Then it seemed to make a rapid u-turn in the Duke Nukem Forever direction.
Now where was I to jump on ?
;)

Seriously though, the game is nice, and it's well playable for me, but it should not have come out with so many issues after all that time in development. 
It's Official... 
Wingsticks are awesome.

We need these in Quake. 
 
I'm about eight hours in and actually really enjoying it now. k so the graphics have some issues and the UI leaves a lot to be desired but shotgunning fast moving mutants in the face is good fun. They are forgiven for the piece of shit that was Doom 3's shotgun cause this one is awesome.

It doesn't have the more open plan aspects of Bioshock which means you can't exploit the gimmicky weaponry nearly as much, and it has less anyway. But it's still a laugh zig-zagging an RC car through gunfire then blowing it up.

For anyone who hasn't played it and wants to imagine what it's like, imagine Quake 4 with offhand weapons and different ammo types tacked on. Oh, and regenerating health, which is pointless because you have bandages anyway, so what the hell.

ps I liked the TV arena gauntlets, shame it just reused the same arena :( 
 
Actually the combat gives me *some* shred of hope that Doom 4 might not totally blow ass. 
DooM 4 
We'll see.

In about, say, 7 years ? 
Not Reading This To Avoid Getting Spoiled 
But seriously, don't write "iD"! 
 
Shrouded Bunker:
Looks nice, waterdrops in face were nice. To be honest I did not notice anything special when it comes to looks in the area, could have looked just as nice without megatexture but maybe the performance would have been much worse? I also felt totally lost, felt like I was revisiting the same areas but they were new items to pick and enemies coming at me so I was probably just inept.

Died on the escape elevator ride, getting a Q4 train ride flashback. Music in this level was REALLY ANNOYING BECAUSE IT CONSTANTLY MADE VERY LOUD NOISE IN THE BACKGROUND AND TADADAMMM BUDUDUMMM.

Authority machinegun seems nice but damage feedback is still meh. And I do not see the fun in sitting behind a box while the enemies do the same must to peek out, get 1-2 shots in their heads and having to repeat that cycle for 5 times until they drop or run to another cover (which, if you like this, is seriously well done).

I really hate duck and cover plus iron sight combat. Does not have much to do with classic iD FPS (I am beating a dead horse).

Does anyone feel like the races fit into the game? Or Stanley? I am genuinely interested. Maybe I am somehow expecting a background story that makes everything fit and coherent, I don't know. Probably expecting too much or the game is providing too many wanna-be realistic bits that my brain tries to make them all fit. More abstract games that leave to ones imagination seem more fitting to/for me.

I am still playing it though so there must be something about it.


PS:
+cvaradd g_fov 25 //to have fov 105. 80 is default, the 25 is added

I still have not managed to get an FPS counter. 
 
Another nitpick:
The enemy chatter seems weird. There often seems to be one "overseer" in the background who talks via speakers through the whole place. And the enemies speak coherent and quite nice english (thanks god I did not install the german version, eh?). Somehow this makes me feel too much in civilization. 
Spirit 
Where did you get the english version? But anyways, I have to say thwt the german translation is not that bad. 
 
The internets. 
 
Yeah the duck and cover stuff was getting a bit tedious, but on normal at least you can take a few out with the sniper then just run in and shotgun them. Even the guys in super suits, electro rounds murder them hard. 
Carmack Statements On Gamespy 
http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/id-tech-5-project/1199038p1.html

Don't understand it.
Are they trying to blame someone else, or what ? 
And By The Way ... 
what does a driver have to do with having no tweak-able settings anyway ? 
 
is it the german voice overs you hate then? kind of surprising... i mean you spent so much money making a game like this, you could at least hire some good translation voices. 
Spirit 
Pirated it or what? necros: I generally don't like voiceovers, and given the fact that in most games they are horrible, I was pissed off when I saw that I couldn't switch to english. Having played for a couple of hours, I realize though that the voiceovers are of pretty good quality. I'd still prefer the english version a lot, but it's bearable. 
Other Than That 
I have to say the game isn't too bad. I haven't played any of the recent games, esp. sandbox games, so Rage being pretty damn linear doesn't bother me so much. A lot of the game has been fun so far.

But what really impresses me is the performance of the engine. Hell, it looks better than idTech 4 on my laptop, but it's a lot faster and feels much much better. Sure, I got the occasional texture popping in, but apart from that, it's pretty cool. I'd love to see it on a more powerful computer! 
 
> but it's a lot faster

I'm always slightly confused by this. People have also been saying that Crysis 2 is "faster" than Crysis, but IMO that's not at all the case.

Are you saying it's faster on the same hardware?? That would be pretty surprising. 
It's Wierd - The Textures 
They aren't very hi-res. A few of them are, but most of them are fairly low res. Especially if you compare it to Far Cry 2, or Crysis and Crysis Warhead. The fact that all of the maps have been completely hand-painted, and no two areas of the map look the same kinda makes up for it and more, but I was a little surprised that I couldn't increase the texture resolution more than I have. 
Crysis 2 Was Faster Than Crysis 
But then they released the DX11 and hi-res texture packs, and it was nolonger faster than Crysis, infact it was slower. 
 
Sleepwalkr: Yeah. There also is a language pack around but I think it does not include english, only the other languages. 
I Found A Rage Language Pack On TPB 
Not that I needed one, I was looking for you. Not sure if it would work, but it might be worth a try. 
 
deadendthrills screenshots:

http://deadendthrills.com/?cat=302 
 
> Crysis 2 Was Faster Than Crysis

What?! Not for me. 
Spirit 
Those shots are awesome ! 
Hmmm, Interesting. 
You are right, it wasnt. But there was surprisingly little in the difference. Look here:

http://www.techspot.com/review/390-triple-monitor-gaming-performance/page4.html

Poor graphics card drivers for AMD/Radeon screw up the comparison slightly, but if you look at only NVidia, there seems to be very little difference between the two games.

I this example the two scenes will dictate the results, almost by as much of a factor as the engine. But you can clearly see in the Crysis screenshot, the area is much larger, and IMO the vegetation looks a lot better. As in there is a lot of detail in the scene. 
Well 
I can't give hard data, but it sure feels a lot faster than idTech 4 does on the same machine. 
 
Well, like I said C2 was crawling compared to Crysis on my hardware. But it's OT here. 
 
Seems to be running faster for me too.

I'm seriously impressed with the loading times; I would guess they're back down to almost Quake II level.

The Wasted Clan were fun; I got a good laugh out of their Union Jacks and shouts of "Oi!" "Fack!" "Wankah!"

I don't doubt that megatexture is one valid vision of the future. Reminds me a little of Quake in one way; it's just something so radically new and different that I guess some people don't fully understand and appreciate what they're looking at yet. 
Re: Deadendthrills Screenshots: 
jesus FUCKING christ. does it really look like that???

i'll admit i haven't been following rage too closely, as i figure i'll get it regardless (unless i started hearing that it unilaterally sucked, which i haven't).

but like... that kind of shit makes me want to map for that game like crazy... 
 
that deadendthrills screen looks like a piece of art you'd see on deviantart, not just a random game screenshot! it looks fkn awesome.

alas, it'd be a good few years before i play it - i've gotta get through all the crap from the last few years first haha. 
 
I thought the game felt very half-life 2. then the final level. WOW there.

Also, man, the ending... wuuuh. That's it? I sense DLC ahead. 
Wowza 
Dead City not so much (looked fantastic but the clipping was just too bad). Started to feel like GTA with first person fights but without the option to explore.


<me> i am seriously pissed about all the official videos i watched because so far ALL surprises were spoilered by them
<me> next map is the well and i already know what gimmick i can use there. :(
<me> it feels like one rushes through the environments without properly being able to enjoy them
<me> just played dead city
<me> and the music is seriously making me sad
<me> atmosphere -5


Luckily the game got a lot better. Well and Prison missions were great.

Delay on NPC interaction before you can FINALLY hit E is idiotic.

If you walk away from an NPC while he/she is talking, the dialog will just end. And there is no log. And you cannot trigger it again.

The mechanical things at Kvasir's are well done. The competing claws and the tiny laser head, very cute and ~subtle.

Not sure why I cannot destroy a authority turret with a rocket.

Well mission: Why did they put NPCs down there? I felt pretty useless and random when I saw that there were others already taking care of the situation.

I thought this place looked nice (I can only take one screenshot per session :(( ): http://i.imgur.com/iTTmg.jpg

And yupp, this is how it looks like and runs quite fluent without many noticable popups on my "I don't waste money but rather buy second hand" hardware: http://i.imgur.com/NeqTB.jpg 
X Was Great, Dead City Not So Much 
* A shame the sky is static and there is ZERO wildlife.

The races feel randomly tacked on. How can those people temporarily take over the wasteland and built a race track there. These are the things that screw up the whole story. "You have to race first before you can do mission X", so they try to integrate the whole racing aspect into the gameworld's realism. But it just does not work. Fuck.

Not sure if I said it here already (did so in IRC), but I am starting to appreciate HL2's storyline and way of telling it. Rage feels like an amateur attempt compared to it. And I hate HL2 more almost as much as Apple. ;) 
I Can Only Take One Screenshot Per Session :( 
OK, now that I finally got the console working (the key was in a completely different place; I just tried them all until I found it) - you can drop the console and append a filename to the "screenshot" command. So "screenshot blah" will take a screenshot named "blah".

There's some birds flying around the old dam, but I think the lack of wildlife is supposed to reflect the "80% of life got killed" thing... 
Just Got A Patch On Steam 
Notes are here
 
Solved a lot of the problems I had, but now I have some extreme FPS slowdowns in some areas, like the game freezes but doesn't. Ironically, Jago says this patch fixed that problem he had earlier. Weird.

Anyhoo, it's a ton better now with the game not looking like shit and running well. 
It Crashed For Me 
While riding the atv. I might want to lower the size of my texture cache, though. 
 
I'm not gonna patch it now, I'll finish the game first. But I can't wait to give it a go on the high graphics settings. I don't know if my PC can handle it though, but it's a good excuse to try out the Nightmare mode. Hard is pretty easy, apart from the subway station mission. Fuck me, that was like Serious Sam at times !

Weird though, id shipping it more or less broken when the problem could be solved within a week. This has done there reputation no good at all.

Love the game though !
It's been a while since I've played a game where I didn't have any super powers. No advanced objective radar, no cloaking device, no grappling hook ... That's probably what gives the game it's "old school" feel. 
Hm, Should I (have Said) Say "spoilers"? 
From what I heard it should be rather damaging AMD/Ati's reputation than id Software's though. Sadly I guess that ain't going to happen.

I played more and really liked it. Second Dead City mission was good, I like the Authority MG.

Music in the balloon ride to the new city and also the music in Subway Town are nice. Visuals just did another leap forward, see screenshots (thanks MH!), wow. Yes, that is brushwork on http://i.imgur.com/4v4Tg.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/xirXE.jpg

Screenshot album with spoilers I guess: http://imgur.com/a/D7K8z

Subway Town looks like those old System Shock 2 concept art drawings. Utterly amazing. The low textures resolution overall (up close) is so irrelevant I would like to shove mutant poo up anyone''s throat who bitches about that (I only bitched about it before the game was out, I swear!).

You can rampjump. But since everything is clipped it is no fun.

Bollocks: There are only 20 savegame slots and Rage will always select the top one. So now if I want to keep some incremental saves I have to navigate down and thanks to the fucking GUI that takes a long time (it waits on each savegame).

Same behaviour for the weapon changing, you cannot quickly scroll to another weapon (of which you can only have 4 in your "current selection" anyways, dumb), but you will have to go from one weapon to another. In quick combat this blows. The quick-selection is completely and utterly broken on PC or I just have not figured out how to use it without the mouse... 
@Zwiff 
That happened to me after the steam update, and I fixed it by removing the Rageconfig file I had in my /base folder, and removing all of the command line options from the steam 'launch options' field. Including the command which forced vsync. Now it works, and there is a vsync option (which works) in the video options menu in-game. 
@Ron 
The update didnt seem to affect the savegames stability. 
@Spirit 
Multiple taps on number keys? 
Too Bright ! 
Does anyone else have trouble with the contrast between light and dark ? Like in the hospital, sometimes I couldn't even see the crosshair anymore. It seems that a lot of newer games are so over-lit that I'm actually considering wearing shades in the house ! 
 
Zoom Zoom! 
After the update, rage is now running at an average of 45 fps on my laptop ^.^ it no longer drops into the teens when driving either. I finished the wasteland garage, and plan on finding the quake secret when I get home from work. 
 
http://i.imgur.com/D5DKLh.jpg really shows off the usefulness of the megatextures.
the ability to make your textures perfectly fit the geometry every time without having to resort to prefabs is huge. 
 
Yeah, it is absolutely amazing how all the rocks have uniquely painted borders! 
Just Played 5 Minutes. 
It looks verrrrrrry pretty and the character physics/movement feels great - a real rarity these days. 
Patch Applied, WOW ! 
It looks fantastic !
And runs as smooth as can be !
Hooray ! 
Yeah 
I have to say that I'm constantly impressed by how good the game feels compared to Doom 3. Also the engine is incredibly fast and beautiful. That alone is great, but I'm also having lots of fun with the campaign. Sure it's linear, but it doesn't get too boring or tedious. 
So Patch Works For Everyone? 
 
 
Finished my first playthrough on normal last night.

Disappointed by the ending, but overall enjoyed the game. I feel like the story was building up to much more than it delivered, and the end came a bit suddenly... I was also sad that racing was disabled for some damn reason just before the final mission, so my last save before finishing I can't even go back and finish all the races.

The shooting in the game was better than I expected, I was expecting it to be a lot more watered down for console taste, but I found it pretty damn good for a mostly hitscan collection of weapons. I liked that they managed to make most of the ammo types feel very unique and special, normally I hate multiple ammo types because they feel like all the same thing with different damage multipliers. I also enjoyed using wingsticks, and will likely play through again with alot more focus on engineering items, because I just simply didn't bother with them enough this play through.

I'd say another complaint for me was I wish there was more side missions, I feel like I hit all of them on my first run through. I wouldn't even have cared if they were simple ones, but it felt that some parts of the early areas of the game were forgotten by the end, and could've been reused again for some side missions. And perhaps I didn't search enough, but there weren't enough sewers or misc. 'dungeons' that were just shooting galleries.

I enjoyed the racing and random encounters of car battles in the world, I felt the controls could've been better (though, perhaps using a game pad or actually changing the controls on my part could've made it better). I wish there had been more options for customizing my car.

I had texture streaming problems like most everyone during most of my play through, but last night's patch pretty much alleviated that issue. Surprised how well it ran on my laptop, 9800m, 2.1ghz Duo, 4 gig ram, most newer games I've struggled with. I am very impressed by the visuals of the game, id did a wonderful job there.

Overall I'm quite happy with it. Was about 16 hours through my first play, and will likely play again. I'd get it a score of a B+ likely if I were rating it. 
Finished ! 
That end game ...
I was waiting for it to come, then the credits kicked in.

Great game though. 
 
By the way anyone have an idea if Rage is reasonably mod-able ? 
This Is Interesting 
@ Ricky 
DooM 3 looked better, indoors for sure. But they were maps, like Quake. This is much more open. 
Lol 
that doom 3 pic is modded to all hell, how he can make a serious comparison is beyond me :) 
 
I reckon you just gotta take your attention away from texture detail and put it on to unique texturing. In many ways it's a lot like Quake - the first real iteration of something completely new and with all the technical limitations that comes with that. (There were lots of complaints about Quake's graphics too, back in 1996.) 
Blatant Trolling 
parralax mapping and detail textures. You can make Quake look like that in a load of engines if you just texture one wall and look at it. 
 
Another saddo hater showing a misleading Doom3 shot: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037858641&postcount=1118 
 
Well, considering the idiocy of some people I am not surprised they judge graphical quality by resolution. I mean, just look at how some people mod their Quake. It looks like a dolphunicorn had diarrhea and played Portal yet they feel it is "better". Human psyche is weird. 
Spirit 
to give some credit to people (even though I hate people) it's not easy to separate engine from art, ever.

It's a lot easier to dismiss "these high-res texture replacements look better because they are high-res" of course. Wait, should I be agreeing with that? 
Http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037840623&postcount=682 
Completely retarded. Step outside of a corridor in Doom3 and it looks like ass, ass in which you can only see about 50m before the scenery is cut off.

Step outside of the garage in Rage and it's fucking spectacular. 
 
I am slightly annoyed at how the maps always conveniently make you run in a circle so you do not have to backtrack yourself.

And I would still prefer fights depending on skill (evading projectiles/hits and aiming well).

And I have no feeling for health. Died a lot in the power plant when I was shooting zoomed it and took hits without noticing their severity. Using bandages is so clunky that I rarely do (mostly grenades on Q).

The slow weapon switching sucks.

Finally turned off the music. 
Rage, DM And Level Editing 
Has anyone tried Rage multiplayer yet? I'm only maybe ~7 hours into Rage, don't know how far along I am, but I don't plan to try it out until I'm finished.

I know in #tf that some people expressed how awesome DM would feel in this game. Is anyone planning on setting up a death match game mode/mod when the x64 version is released? Some of the maps seem like they would be awesome in a team-oriented ctf-style game mode, and the inclusion of vehicles would be awesome for a 5-cp map if they could be balanced.

Any opinions on DM as a project? 
"Why Quake Changed Games Forever" 
Ron 
It is indeed a really interesting paper ! 
 
Worst ending ever. Fuck you, whoever is responsible for this shit. 
Yeah, Really ... 
What were they thinking ?
I thought I was just warming up for the final big fight, then the credits appeared. I mean, the Cyberdemon in DooM 3 was easy, but this was just taking the piss ! The game is very, very easy. I'm now doing it on Nightmare and it's still a walk in the park. 
 
Haven't gotten to the end yet, but id doesn't seem to 'get' bosses right, for whatever reason. 
Well. 
Racing is the worst thing I've ever played in gaming.

The rest generally rocks. 
I Actually 
really enjoy the racing so far. I've just gone through a lot of Subway Town's races. I didn't think I would have so much fun doing that, but it's kind of addicting. 
Just Read The Last 74 Posts 
So, it's actually good then?

Friends of mine seem to be doing the same 'uh, yeah, I'm having fun' thing.

And the post that pointed to Carmack's GameSpy rant about the drivers being fucked on PC I can relate to.

Will get it sooner rather than later. 
Racing 
Having a gamepad to pick up as soon as you jump in a vehicle really helps, cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.

I'm having fun, some stuff is a bit stupid, but overall it's a nice game so far. 
Hmmmm Yeah. 
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty.
cause racing with keyboard is super shitty. 
 
I had zero problems with most of the races, keyboard controls felt good. Only those random checkpoint races were impossible to win and not much fun to me.

Most races were trivially easy, I won them at the first try. Even the "I am the best driver, try to beat me" ones... 
I Have No Problem With Racing Using The KB 
I have a friend who plugged his XBox controller into his PC. But I am used to using the D-Pad for racing. Like, I've been doing that for over a decade.....

(doesn't understand the gripe)

I can understand the gripe about it being too easy though..... 
 
Did anyone else notice that when you play that gambling minigame with the 4 monsters and the sheriff in the middle, when you lose and the sheriff dies, he makes the same sound as when you died in DooM 3. 
 
I've been using the keyboard for racing too; the only problem I've had is that it's a mite tricky to get back in a straight line if you crash, but otherwise the controls are really really well balanced.

Yeah the game is FUN. In many ways it reminds me of the classic run from 95-ish to 98-ish when so much good stuff came out in such a short time, and I've been breaking into silly grins, going "wow, would you look at that!", and laughing with joy at regular intervals. So what if it doesn't have bumpmapping plastered on like mascara, it's the better for it.

Final Fantasy 7 is probably it's closest ancestor, there's a lot in common between them. 
RACE CONTROLS ARE APPALLING. 
Scientific fact and end of story. Took me 6 attempts to do the beginner's one, about 15 attempts to do the next one (on Easy skill specially for the race).

Most silly as the rest of the game controls and plays well, even with the annoying damage feedback. 
 
The key handling issue with the cars imo is that you can't reverse in a stable way. Tap left or right and your car does a j-turn. Which is fucking annoying. Spinning and driving backward to shoot someone chasing you seemed like a good tactic. But you can't do it.

The racing is pretty easy though apart from the rocket rally which is fucking retarded.

The racing would be far better without the weapons really. Shock horror. 
Dead City... 
...had sex with my eyeballs. Not just the graphics but the sounds and general atmosphere, stunning. Gameplay was fun too although I wish it relied less on monsters ganking up your vision... 
 
Do not get your hopes up for a big higher resolution texture pack: https://twitter.com/#!/ID_AA_Carmack/status/125001438790287362


PS: Twitter is so stupid. Why am I not seeing eg replies JC posts if I am following him but only on his profile page? 
 
Just saw the ending - was that a total setup for "Enemy Territory: Rage Wars" or what?

That aside it was fantastic. I got a solid 28 hours out of it, loved every moment, and definitely going to do a replay soon-ish (think I might wait on the next patch though). 
Finaly Beat Rage 
This morning before work. Final level felt 'final' thematically, but I never ended up using the BFG because I was expecting a final boss type thing. Only after I pressed the final switch did I realize my error. So, no BFG use in the first playthrough for me.

The final area also felt like a mix of Prey and Mass Effect. The Authority Mutants looked like hunters from Prey. The color scheme matched Prey. The metallic plates matched Prey. Probably coincidence, but still felt very cool.

I will need to go back and play through, as I never got the Monarch (wtf??) and I'm sure there's a lot more areas to explore and races to have in the Wasteland than what I experienced.

Great game overall once it started working with a half-expected bad ending, DO WANT TOOLS. 
Actually 
The only real "boss" I can think of in that game was the giant mutant/authority thing in the Hospital. Some thing like that would have at least felt like closure. 
16 Hours In, Just About To Take Down The Ark Bridge. 
Things what I have noticed:

1. It looks GREAT.

2. Yes there are blurry textures and yes there are completely non-interactive objects, this is not so good, but the overall effect is so good it doesn't detract that much.

3. The controls feel nice. Smooth and responsive. This is a welcome change to many games.

4. Exploding enemies is fun.

5. The ambient sounds are great. I haven't seen anyone mentioning this but they are definitely well done, like the flies and the drips and the wind and creaking noises. I have the music very low as standard.

6. Subway Town has a lot of cute chicks in skimpy clothes and increasingly ridiculous hats. This is good.

7. I am struggling to choose between Elizabeth and Jani. Opposite ends of the spectrum really.

8. Gameplay is fun. Despite being disappointingly mostly humanoid enemies, there's actually some good variety with different weapons definitely suiting different enemy.

9. There is a ludicrous fuckton of weaponry in this game. Including different ammo types I make it effectively 19 weapons PLUS 2 offhand weapons PLUS 3 main offensive "sidekicks". More than you need by a long way, especially the bog standard machine gun, but still it allows a lot of fun kills, and the offhand items are very useful combined with normal weapons.

10. The racing.....okay the main problem with the races I was having. The Dune Buggy is fairly shit and that god-fucking-awful obstacle-fest-frustrathon Dusty 8 is utterly shit. Having got other vehicles and gone on other races, the driving is actually fine. The controls are only shit with the Dune Buggy and the Dusty-shitting-8 track is especially shit. Even after cruising many other races, I still find that one fucking horrendous. Wasteland combat is a bit crap, the jumps are fun tho. 
Shambler 
Pretty much nails it. The only thing I'd disagree with is the Buggy - once you get the boost upgrade for it, it's quite awesome for both control and speed. The trick I found was to bind the arrow keys instead of WASD, use shift for boost, and it gets a lot easier.

Dusty 8 is a colossal pain. 
Oh, And... 
Alison. ;) 
 
I Think 
Shamblers 3rd point cannot be overstated. The controls feel absolutely fucking great compared to any other game I have played in the last couple of years. It feels direct. You move the mouse, the view changes. No delays. No feeling like you're wrapped in cotton. It's awesome. 
Outdoor Areas 
look amazing in the shots I've seen, but my oh my does that concept art look bland. Technically very good I'm sure, but you could have taken those items out of Quake 4. 
Alison?? 
RLY? Guess you like the more....sober styled ladies... 
Rage Art 
If you want to see more rage art stuff like what Zwiffle posted:
Before / After shots of stamp work on the environment art.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90081
Character Art.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89974

I agree that lots of the designs are pretty generic, but it works overall, and they are very well done, so I don't mind. 
More....sober Styled Ladies... 
Of course, Ginny's the best of them all; I'm sure we'll agree on that. 
Stamp Work 
great before/afters, looks really effective. Considering how minimal the performance hit is (according to Carmack), no wonder it runs so well! 
Ginny... 
...yeah I can dig that. 
 
 
New AMD drivers for those sorry souls who got such cards: http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/GPU124AMDCat1110PreDriverV3.aspx 
And Like Zwiffle... 
<Dafukbler> i presume rage is the first episode of an episodic game release right??
<Dafukbler> given the final conflict had hardly any conflict and was only final cos there was a video thing after it....

Ridiculously easy given you end up with about 15,000 pulse gun rounds, and a bit disappointing after earlier stuff in the game - the ending bit was competently done but just mundane. I think Rage peaked with Dead City although generally I really enjoyed the rest of it. Would happily play more of the same... 
 
Pretty bored of games doing a 'here, uber gun for final level' shit. Crysis and Crysis Warhead did the same thing. 
Re 238 
a game released under the bethesda name WITHOUT ugly characters? incredible! :P
also, digging the uber low res computer screen behind her... i guess i got spoiled by the idtech4 guis. :P

also, all those shots are unbelievably good. keep posting them! :D 
Necros 
If you want major spoilerage, here's my steam profile filled with screens. I add them as I proceed. (still not finished with the game and don't want it end, it's so cool, like a proper dream ;)

http://steamcommunity.com/id/vondur/screenshots/?tab=all 
Vondur... 
... shut up ! you make me so jealous not having bought the game yet ! ;) 
 
thanks, von. :)
i'll just leave that tab open for now!

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596951791318811244/8B6D41718EFB6CCE771AE642FC39CFEB34942EF3/
is my new desktop... 
 
how the fuck can this game only have an aggregate in the 70% region, when it has screenies like that. what is wrong with the mainstream reviewers these days? so WHAT if it doesn't have huge character development and oodles of rpg sidequests. can't it just be a great looking, fun, action game?

i haven't played it, but it seems to be the critics really dropped the ball on this game and have really underrated it. 
 
Some people at work have been arguing their disappointment that it isn't a revolutionary game, to which I responded that it's still a very solid and fun actiony FPS/racer. There's a lot to do between missions, and id doesn't force the player to play any certain way what with all the freedom to pick your own ammo, build your own toys, and do extra side quests if you want. 
Well 
What Zwiffle said, and my 1 rouble:

It's awesome game that gives you that freedom that attracted me back in quake days. The freedom of exploration, they exaggerated it to the level of consistent big world with super gfx. And of course there's that old fps element, which by itself is so varied. Best part of it u can play as u want, be it fisting mobs in their face or sniping or windsticking everyone from afar. I consider this is the best part as Rage offers u any gameplay style possible, just pay ingame dollars for your fave ammo\weapon and have your fun. what could be better? Not taking into account a lot of funny minigames that add richness to the world.

Most importantly, there's no rails gameplay like in most modern games, you can do whatever you want.

It's a masterpiece game! 
 
if I was to give rage a rating it would be in the low 80% region. it looks great but overall it is such a mess. the levels themselves are very much rails.

70% is still quite above average but I guess review ratings are a joke. 
Rage Flaws: 
- Lame story, generic settings, generic quests.

- Blatantly rips off HL2, Fallout3, Borderlands etc.

- Silly combination of some "pseudo-realistic" features like nanotrites explaining health re-gen, slow weapon changing, and being about to buy and build items, with nonsense like infinite inventory infinite ammo etc etc.

- Too many weapons including pointless ones.

- Not enough special/diverse enemy.

- Levels are entirely linear and on rails.

- Stupid clip brushes everywhere.

- World is entirely static, no destructible objects.

- Races and mini-games are blatantly shoehorned in and add little to the game.

- Vehicle combat in Wasteland is pretty meh. Fun of speed boost doesn't work when you have to turn and fight.

- Ending is uber-easy and boring. 
... 
BUT... 
...the Main Flaw Is: 
+ There's not enough of it. Cos despite all that, the game rocks: it controls well, is fun to play, looks great, sounds great, has a very cool atmosphere and some stunning setpieces. I want m0ar!! ;) 
Also. 
While we're stating the utterly sodding obvious.

Things that quite clearly aren't flaws with Rage and you'd have to be particular breed of fucktard to thing they were:

> So-called blurry textures close-up.

> So-called texture pop-up.

> So-called lack of checkpoints and need to save manually. Apparently one console review said the save system was "broken" - presumably because they are so much of a moronic consolised twatn00b that they 1. Can't remember that manual saves were standard for games before gayconsoles came along, 2. Struggle to work out how to go to a menu and save, and 3. Are oblivious to the obvious benefits of manual saves compared to consolised crap that just has checkpoints.

Twats. 
Btw 
yes the levels themselves are linear, i meant that overall the game doesn't felt like linear to me because u can go whenever at any time. 
 
yeah, it's this kind of stuff that made me not bother reading reviews from gaming magazines and such.
from what i've read in this thread, i would get the game right now if i had an awesome computer-- i really want to play this at maximum settings. 
Yeah 
I played it on my laptop, and yesterday I turned all settings to max just for fun. And man did it look awesome. I need a better computer. 
Haha Shambler 
I was thinking of making a post similar to that, and you came along and said quite a bit of what I was thinking.

I've been speaking with a coworker about the game, and he keeps bringing up flaws and silliness and things that are sort of fucked up as reasons that he's not really liking it (making the point that none of the objections by themselves are all that significant, but that the sum turns him right off).

I just keep nodding and agreeing that, yes, X is sort of silly and not very well thought-through, and yep, you have a point about Y...

But I'm enjoying the shit out of the game, just really having fun, so I guess I don't really care about all that stuff? (Other than the goddamn inviso-walls everywhere--that starts to grate on me after a while. Some places clipping is done really well, and other spots...erk--just horrible.)

Gonna go play more... 
 
Too many weapons including pointless ones.

only weapon I really didn't like was the first assault rifle. It couldn't hit shit and did no damage.
The steel bolts for the crossbow do become useless when everyone has body armour, and the way I used them the dynamite bolts and mind control bolts are pretty much interchangable, but apart from that, I thought the weapons were pretty neat.

It is annoying having to constantly reload all the bloody things and switch ammo types around. And it's ammo change interface is fucking god awful compared to Bioshock. 
Ammo Changing... 
Just press the bound key multiple times. If 4 is your shotgun, press 4 again for the next ammo type, and so on. 
 
I wish I could spam the weapon key to quickly cycle through instead of having to wait for the animation to finish. I know what ammo I want, let me get to it quickly damn it!

I used the assault rifle a lot, not because it was good, but because ammo was pretty cheap and plentiful. Keep firing at people then use wingsticks to lop off their faces. 
Well 
the clipping is really bad in places. but the more I play it the more I enjoy it. Indoor locations look awesome and very atmospheric (the outdoor also do). I really enjoy exploration of everything to find those little things. 
Played Through The Campaign 
Enjoyable game. Not nearly the technical revolution I expected. Looks great in the distance, and at times pretty ugly in close-up. Impressive perfomance, ran super smooth on max settings in Windows 7, where most new games somewhat poor performance.
I didn't mind the blurry textures at first, but ever since the Dead City mission (which gave me a Bulletstorm flash, not in a good way), it really bothered me. Some textures, one skybox as well, even had visible artifacts.

Clipping is shit and sometimes inconsistent. FPS are not supposed to be played (made for) consoles.
Too linear as usual, but the fake freedom and hub based design make up for it a little, not least because one is used to less nowadays.

Shooting and racing parts feel good, controls and speed. Switching ammo types could have been better - the ctrl menu doesn't show all available weapons and cycling through each ammo type for the selected one takes too long.

What I found quite disappointing is how they make they make you play each level twice, even if sometimes the route is marginally changed. It's not necessarily bad, but at the time of playing it felt to me like a cheap way of extending the play time.

Damn those collectables; in the end I was only a handful of cards short of 100%ing the game.
Good easter eggs and nods at other games. I didn't find the Wolf3D secret..

Anyone up for the Legends of the Wasteland coop levels? I mean, not that any coop request here has ever lead to an actual game. 
 
I would be interested in Rage coop. 
Btw Anarchy Edition 
So where were the Double Barrel Shotgun, Crimson Elite Armor, Fists of Rage, and Rat Rod Buggy?? I certainly didn't come across them.

Instead I encountered a bug where the door in the Dead City hospital didn't open and I had to replay the entire level. 
 
negke you have to activate them with a special code or something iirc. You get them pretty near the start of the game. I think as soon as you get your pistol you get the double barrel. You start with the fists, and you get the rat rod when you get the dune buggy or shortly thereafter. The crimson armor is something you buy, I think? Don't remember much about the suits tbh. 
 
I think the Crimson armour is when you buy the new clothes. It's basically all three of the others combined. 
Duuuuuh 
You're right. The code to activate them is on the other side of the sewers DLC sheet. I didn't consider turning it. 
The Ending: 
OMG that felt rushed.

also:

Unskippable credits? REALLY!??! 
Okay You Bitches. 
Console commands for no crosshair, no hud, no weapon model. Wanna take some shots. Word. 
 
You can drop the console and use the "screenshot" command - it turns off all of those aside from the weapon model. 
 
probably some ch_ cvar for the viewmodel.


started another playthrough on nightmare. playing all side missions. not too well balanced but fun. races are as easy as before. UI woes are even more frustrating since I die more often and most of the time it is the game being stupid. be it the idiotic "only 4 weapons to cycle through with the wheel", the "wait for each animation to finish when you switch" or just the quick use items F key being hard to reach in combat. maybe I should try to make a key select and apply bandages.
also annoying is the damage feedback. I have not played any modern shooters so maybe it is something I need to learn but I have no feeling for how damaged I am when the screen is just turning red and the view gets blurred (fuck that so much).

but overall it is more fun now since I know what I can expect of the game and partially how I am supposed to play it.

and thanks to vondur for reminding me that there are sewer entrances to find. the first one in the wasteland looked really cool and was a rewarding 5 minutes. 
Also 
show_hands 0 
 
I can't believe that modern devs really think that what you want when you are critically injured in a game is to have your vision ruined, so you can barely see.

Another fun design trend is the crippling screen jerk when taking damage, meaning that you have no alternative but to run for cover, and in multiplayer means the first to attack has a massive advantage. 
Haha 
I See You! 
 
Rage On ATI 5870 
Am i missing something, or is it still totally fucked? I experience serious stutter/freezes every few seconds / when turning.

Patch 1 & amd_catalyst_11.10_preview2_win7_vista.exe 
Wtf 
 
It's -33% off at Steam for 8 more hours 
Sales 
Rage (X360) is this week�s top debut, as it debuted at number three with sales of 405,000. The PlayStation 3 version debuted at number eight with sales of 244,000. The PC version debuted at number 15 with sales of 59,000. The game launched in all three regions worldwide.
How many of the not-sold pc copies do we account to the bugs? 
 
that just seems more indicative of the smaller size of the pc gaming market than bugs.

from what it looked like, most people didn't even know about the bugs until they got it. 
@Ricky 
"'e's slaughterin' us 'ere!"

"There 'e is!"

"I'm facked!"

Awesome, Wasted are still my favourite for that alone. 
'oo's This Wankah! 
Yup :D 
 
@ #280 
Well, at one hand it's true that PC gamers are the minority, but with this game, you can bet there were a lot of PC game/ID fans that really looked forward to Rage and I've seen very serious posts concerning the bugs, but not just that. This whole 'new amazing tech' non-sense is also getting transparent. I mean, I really don't see how this tech is more advanced/better then certain other recent games or how the game is better in a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g for that matter. After watching gameplay videos I certainly feel no need to play it. 
#284. 
It looks fucking awesome in the outside bits.

The gameplay is proper and very fun.

The atmosphere in some areas is pretty much perfect.

The bugs I got with the patch were: 0 
Yeah - I Started A Long Post After Reading Megalodon's 
Then I decided not to post it. But yeah - the shooter parts are very good, and have good replayability.

A also found the engine to be very fast. 60fps 100% of the time.

I think once they increase the texture resolution, future projects using the same tech will be stunning. 
 
once they increase the texture resolution
about that... like, i haven't played it, so i don't know how accurate i'm being here, but wouldn't they need stupid amounts of artists at that point?

i kind of always looked at higher and higher res textures as a way of offsetting how shitty tiled textures look. then bump mapping and spec highlights came along and went a long way towards getting rid of tiling, and now rage has basically removed it entirely.

i'd be absolutely fine with a game with just q3 levels of texture resolution (2 textures pixels to 1 game pixel... don't know how else to express that) if everything was unique. 
Necros 
2 things about that:

1 - I'm guessing that it wouldn't really require that much more work. If you think about it, it's probably been slightly difficult to achieve some of the effects that they have achieved at a low resolution.

2 - ID software are a small team anyway, but if another, larger studio used the engine, it could be a different story.

3rd thing I just remembered - Didn't they say that Doom 4 would be a 30hz game which contained four times the detail of Rage, right back in like 2007 or something?

Also incidentally, Skyrim seems to contain textures with a higher resolution than FO3/FONV 
 
Just to play Loki's Advocate: any tile based game will teach you that unique environments aren't needed for a great game. 
 
sorry, tiled environments look shit.
the best textures are the ones that can obfuscate that tiling. this is the kind of thing that made or broke pixel art games. (well... unless the texture is MEANT to tile, of course.)
also, i never once mentioned the quality of the game-- this isn't about what makes a game great but what makes the environment look best. 
 
Hm? My comment wasn't directed at you personally, Necros. 
 
uh, i was the one who brought up the stuff about unique environments. 
Tiled Textures Look OK 
But it's a negative thing at the end of the day.

I'm just responding to Megalodon's post really -
"What is all of the fuss about?"

Or to quote him directly:

I mean, I really don't see how this tech is more advanced/better then certain other recent games or how the game is better in a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g for that matter.

I'm just saying - the actual shooter parts of Rage are cool, IMO. Not ground breaking, but great fun nonetheless. The are reminiscent of Doom. Fast gameplay. First-person-shooter. The game as a whole is a bit awkward, but I'd be lying if I said I didnt enjoy the vehicular combat.

But the megatexture thing - well that is new, and it is ground-breaking.

Look at Metro 2033 for example - one of the prettiest games ever made. Loadsa shaders and parralax whatever, depth of field, volumetric lighting etc etc etc. Well if it had megatexture AS WELL, it would look even better. Crysis is another one. Give the artists the ability to REALLY make the levels look polished. Crysis has an awesome graphics engine. Crysis Very High settings has funky shaders on the textures that Rage doesn't. But Crysis has parts where one texture is poorly faded into another, and things like that. If it had Megatexture, it would look *slightly* better too. 
 
i remember there was an oblivion mod where someone went through all the terrain textures and created opacity maps out of the normals and used those to blend between textures (instead of the stock cross fading). looked very good.
but when there's stuff like rocks and cliff faces, they really benefit from unique textures. some of the shots i've seen remind me of cg films. 
 
Mega-texture improves the rendering of terrain and such but in a man made environment I'm not convinced. Adding mega-texture to Crysis would make the rocks and mountains look better perhaps but overall it wouldn't have much effect imo because of the huge degree of meshes and foliage.

Really that's the only place I think you'd made Crysis or Crysis 2 look more impressive with this tech. Unreal engine, kinda the same, that engine needs better lighting more imo, though it's piles of rock meshes to make a big cliff does kind of stick out a lot to me. 
 
Just look at the tiling on http://deadendthrills.com/2011/11/the-blades/ and dream how much better it could look with unique textures. 
More Art Dumps Btw 
 
i think it can be just as relevant with 'man made'/inorganic stuff.

it's why i like the ikbase set so much. it has textures that fit on more than just squares. 2x1 rectangles, 4x1 rectangles, angles, etc...
it's not only trim. this is good, because it gives you some room to make different shapes.
if you were doing it with megatextures, you can imagine every possible brush shape would have it's matching metal panel texture that fit the shape exactly effectively giving you infinite shapes to play around with. 
 
Yeah for individual mappers that might be interesting but for a full AAA game where all the assets are custom made anyway I don't think the impact would be anything great. 
Tiled Textures... 
...can look fine, yes. And there are things you can do to counter the "obviously tiled" effect, but in reality the old tiled rendering paradigm hasn't had any new innovations since the introduction of programmable shaders. It's all just bigger, better versions of what went before, with more layers, more effects. Where are the new groundbreaking ideas?

Once you see unique texturing however, once you've immersed yourself in it for a few hours and get the full impact of it, it's actually quite difficult to go back and look at tiled textures again. I'm doing a Doom 3 run-through at the moment, and it honestly looks awful by comparison. You can see all the wall panels look the same, there's no variations in an expanse of floor, etc.

The lower resolution of Rage's textures is just a tradeoff owing to current hardware constraints right now, and I'm pretty certain that a future evolution of it could involve having variable texture resolutions. Say a lower resolution for rocks, soil, organic stuff where it wouldn't matter so much, with perhaps a detail layer added, and a higher resolution for manmade stuff. There's plenty of good stuff yet to evolve fom this.

(Interesting aside: software Quake's surface cache is perhaps a very early ancestor of megatexture.) 
 
Would there be a way to paint on the surfaces in-game and somehow save that cache to be loaded later? 
ZQF 
I remember when people said

"There is no point in Anti-Aliasing, because at such high screen resolution as we have today (like 1280x1024 back then) you can't tell the difference".

Another analogy:

My sister is a very fussy eater. My father recently watched something on the TV which made him decide that rather than buying bread from the shop, he would make his own bread, because shop-bought bread has like 30+ ingredients ('E' whatever, and other chemicals), whereas REAL bread has only 4 or 5 (flour, yeast, salt, water, maybe a touch of syrup, honey or sugar).
So anyway, he has been making his own bread for 3 or 4 months now, and has gotten quite good at it.
My sister comes to stay with my folks because she had a bad break-up with her BF, and she turn's her nose up at the (really nice) HAND MADE bread, and says "Ooooh, I don't like that bread, oooh, it's horrible, what a waste of time, yada-yada-yada", so now she gets a loaf of preservative ridden bread, with every slice all but identical and full of 'E' number. I mean WTF!?!? It's bread! 
How In God's Name 
is that related to anything, Ricky? 
 
The home made bread is hand-modeled terrain maybe?? 
Your Weird Ricky. 
seriously, wtf :P 
I Dunno 
I just mean that megatexture is better than not megatexture. I'm just fanboiing on id. Thanks for releasing some new and awesome feature which allows mappers to hand paint over their own textures. Thanks for the ability to model rocks, and then hand-paint highlights onto the edges of those rocks in 3D. I know that it took id seven years to make QuakeLIVE and Rage, and not a sausage more, but they kinda cracked it for me. I mean did you see the video from about 1 or 2 years ago where they were showing the dev team working in the editor, all flying around in the 3D world, just painting the textures, adding 'stamps' or whatever they are called, and manipulating the mesh, just on a server, in real time, simultaneously? It was sooooooo cool. I just feel you aren't seeing the forest for all fo the trees.

Forgive me, I'm also totally wired from working a trade-show stand for work. I was literally stood trying to sell products to a bunch of farmers, who I have never met, in an environment full of businessmen and professionals twice my age. I mean I'm selling stuff to farmers, and I know nothing about farming really. I suppose I wasn't really 'selling' anything, I was just there to raise product and brand awareness. But bleh. MY brain is a bit hyper at the moment, but at the same time I feel drained. I had a long and stressful drive home, because I was already tired, I was on my own in the car, and there was a massive traffic jam on the way out of the city. So I'm sorry, grump over, peace :D 
Ricky's Analogy... 
...makes sense (in a way, it is Ricky we're talking about, after all!)

His sister is a gamer, break with preservatives is old-school textureing, and homemade bread is megatexture.

So the gamer is very very fussy about what she likes and doesn't like. Old-school texturing has all this nastiness wrapped up in it, so the game company makes megatexture. The gamer comes in, sees megatexture and turns her nose up at it saying "maybe I like the misery!", or words to that effect. 
I Like You Ricky. 
 
 
Ricky ate his father's megatextured bread. 
 
oooh your sisters a gamer is she ricky? is she cute? :D 
Megatexture Is Not New, It's 4 Years Old 
Look, my post sounded a bit negative, and I'm sorry a bit for that. Let me clarify some things here:

I'm just tired of the hyping of a product when I know that the arguments for the hype are not justified. And people seem to be a bit brainwashed by this hyping process, which is of course exactly why it's done. Just like they market fast food, put a lot of MSG/E621 in it, which tells people's brain it tastes awesome while it's crap food, so they'll praise the food for being great while it's really not.

Don't forget that the megatexture was already used in 2007 when Quake Wars was released. I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned yet, as far as I know. So I really don't understand why this megatexture tech is presented as anything *new* or groundbreaking, because it just isn't. It's 4 years old. Even back in 2007 most people didn't care about it all that much. But sure, it has potential I suppose.

Old school gamers like myself, like older ID game's: not too much reading (I'll read a book if I wanna read) and not too many gimmicks and no fake conversations with obviously brainless game characters (NPC's) carrying out their dumb mantra/broken record chatter any time you approach them, 'cause it usually only amplifies the feeling I'm in a fake environment. Unless the environment itself isn't trying to seem realistic.

Besides the NPC's that inform you in a non-groundbreaking manner, Rage has the hostile zombie-people who, apparently, have more decency then most immigrants in my neighborhood: they actually speak or yell in the language of the country they're settled in. But it doesn't exactly improve the enemy-experience for me in a game, now does it. Even in Quake 4, they at least disguised it a little bit in the form of some Strogg gibberish with partial English coming through. Imagine a Q1 Ogre speaking English to you......'Oh there he is!!!'....
Seriously!!!! WTF would that do to a game like Quake? What does it add to Rage?

Now you could say that English is fine, cause the zombie folks were once just people. But I still prefer it like they did in 'The Thirteenth Warrior' movie. You got these bear-people who converted to something dark and used their own language:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe2EvcNDt1U&feature=related


So what has really improved since.... Half-Life 1 (1998)? Aside from the 3D engine? Especially when you consider the awesome A.I. in HL1? I vividly remember the encounter with the special forces or that female Assassin and how that bitch would jump away with all kinds of moves to dodge my bullets. Have we forgotten about that? So it's 2011 FFS and I see Tim Willits mentioning of how proud they are on the new bullet-dodging enemies... For ID, it may be a step forward, but in the world of gaming? Does it really matter to the gamer all that much that the enemies never fall down exactly the same way? I doubt it because they still look and sound like a bunch of dumb idiots that even a handicapped console gamer can shoot down.

But sure, I guess there's always people who don't care and just have fun. I guess that's the best way to go about it. I just can't do it anymore. 
English. 
The mutants don't speak in Rage. The bandits do, because they are humans. 
 
megalodon, are you the authority who decides what people may like or not?

You ain't making any sense anyways, first you say you wanted an oldschool game and then you bitch about the AI?

You don't like Rage. Ok. 
 
The version of megatexture used in Rage is actually quite different to that used in ETQW, which had various well-documented limits, such as a smaller texture size (32kx32k vs Rage's 128kx128k) and not being able to handle overhanging geometry.

Besides, one could easily extend the argument and say "megatexture isn't new, it was used in software Quake" too (what else do you think the surface cache is?)

Enforcers in Quake shouted at you in English, and most monsters in Quake II used English as well. I fail to see the complaint here. 
Rawr 
Bare in mind I haven't played the game yet, but based on vids I've seen and whatnot I think it comes down to the fact that in this engine the "new graphical feature" doesn't really add any gameplay value, but rather adds a ton of artistic value.

Whereas in previous id engines the new graphical features have enhanced the gameplay in some new way. For example the shadow technology in doom 3 affected the gameplay as you could craft scenario's with them or make monster ambushes more intense, etc. In Quake the addition of a fully 3d environment affected gameplay immensely.

In Rage the megatexture makes stuff look really pretty and unique, but as far as I can tell it doesn't affect gameplay in the slightest. I suppose you could argue that the wide open world parts wouldn't exist without the tech but from what I hear that might have been a good thing? :D

Theres also the fact that it runs at 60fps *nomatter what*. That is a big deal for me at least, I can't afford to have a dual-gfx setup a crazy hispec cpu and usually my graphics settings run fine on high until some crazy action starts happening (where you need the fps most :D).

Meh, getting side tracked. Well the game looks fun, but like I mentioned I cant comment on it directly as I haven't played. If you walk around areas and shoot dudes and it feels great, then id have succeeded in making a game I want to play :) 
I Think 
most rage haters appear because they expected an RPG with open world and story (from id software!) but got a linear shooter with lack of story and pseudo-open world.

I expected a solid shooter with good graphics (I expected the lack of story also) and got it. Enjoyed it much and want more of that.
I think if Rage was announced as a linear shooter it would have got a higher score and more fans. 
I Got., 
Pretty much what I expected, good and bad.

The only bad thing I got that I didn't really expect was it being pretty easy.

The main good thing I got that I didn't fully expect was just how good the atmosphere and sounds and general style/theme was in some areas.

The only things I really wanted were: More of it, a better, deeper ending, and more combat in open areas. 
Spirit 
No I don't consider myself as some authority, but I think game designers can't please both oldschool- and newschool gamers. Just like Duke Nukem Forever is at one hand old school, according to Gearbox, and yet Duke can only carry 2 weapons at once and there's no co-op. So what's the point of releasing it. Well, some people liked it. But overall it wasn't a success.

Same with Quake Wars, which was too much like Battlefield, at least that was criticism I've read a lot.

In Rage you got the same situation: it's a bit of this and a bit of that. A bit old-school a bit new-school. But I doubt you can please both parties. As I understand, ammo is scarce, which isn't old-school, but having to save manually is old-school... but the new-school gamers don't like that. And none of them like running out of ammo.

With recent games, incl. Rage, ID isn't really doing anything unique, or groundbreaking, overall. It's no jaw-dropping technical achievement and it's not that special in gameplay aspect. I mean, either go oldschool or do something new-school/groundbreaking. Easier said then done, true. But I've read several reviews and, so many times, people mentioned it was a bit like a Fallout and Borderlands rippoff. So what does it add to the current game scene? Most reviews aren't that positive, just like with DNF. And consider how long the development took.

The key questions are probably:

- How good is ID in pleasing old school gamers
- How good is ID in pleasing new school gamers
- How good is ID in pleasing both

And the answer should decide what types of games to make, imo.

But again, if people here have fun with it, that's great I guess. I'm not gonna comment on it anymore, because I do realize I should play it first instead of just watching vids and reading reviews. 
Holy Crap 
Actually playing the game before crapping all over it may be a good idea! 
As SleepwalkR Says... 
It's a lot easier to diss the game when you've actually played it and aren't factually incorrect about it.

Ammo - not sure how you understand that as you've never played it, but there is plenty of ammo and you can buy LOADS in the towns. Plus there are loads of weapons and many alternate fire modes so generally even if one fire mode of one weapon isn't hugely stocked on ammo, your overall stocks are massive.

Old skool vs new skool. Rage has old skool (-ish) gameplay and very new skool graphics / theme coherence. Simple as that.

What it adds to the overall game scene, apart from a good blend of those two elements I just mentioned, is a good fun FPS game. If you want to straight up shoot bandits mutants and monsters with a fuck load of different weapons in a post-apoc environment, then errrr, it's that sort of game. 
Wot SleepwalkR And Shambler Said 
Plus that must be one of the more bizarre posts I've ever read about it (and I've been following some of the Steam forums crap, so I've seen plenty of bizarre).

Why on earth is it that people have such a hate on the game that they feel compelled to lie about it?

A bit like a Fallout and Borderlands ripoff? My arse. It's very much a traditional id shooter and very much everything you expect from a traditional id shooter is present and correct (aside from the MP aspects where they decided to do something different).

Scarce ammo? My arse. Rage is actually a polar opposite of this; you can go completely nuts with ammo in the game.

Not a jaw-dropping technical achievement? My arse. Have you been hiding under a rock for the past 7 years. Technically it's astonishing, but it does select a different set of tradeoffs to any other game on the planet.

New school vs old school? This is a totally bogus decision. Whatever happened to "let's just make it fun"? Maybe people don't like "fun" anymore? Maybe that's it? Whatever, Rage is undoubtedly F-U-N in big neon capitals that you can read from the moon. 
Traditional. 
Don't really agree with that, except that taking the 3 previous ID SP releases - Quake, Q2, D3 - they don't have much of a tradition except being straight up FPSes. Rage IS less visceral and less hectic than Id's earlier traditions, with more emphasis on weapons options and cover usage. Although I guess in comparison to modern games it's waaaay more traditional than average ;)

But, whatever, it works and it's fun, if you like FPSes. Last time I checked, I do.

BTW for megladons benefit, I happen to be a big fan of Rage because of my personal tastes, BUT I'm not basing my counter arguments on that....I think there is objectively plenty to criticise - but "lack of ammo", "monsters speaking english" and "lack of technical achievement" aren't part of that. 
Well 
If you guys speak the truth, then a lot of reviews I've read don't. Or it's personal opinion. I've literally read about the need for 'stacking up ammo' before going to a battle zone, other wise you run out of it.
I'm not saying you guys are lying, but, I assume then you guys thing the people who write and agree with those reviews are basically bad players that can't aim? I mean, that could be a possibility I guess. 
Ammo 
As other people have stated, you buy most of your ammo in stores. You can find ammo during the missions, too, but I guess that would not be enough if you didn't buy any additional ammo. However, ammo is so cheap and I had more than enough cash to buy shitloads of it, even the special ammo types... so I don't see the problem. I never ran out of ammo during a mission. Maybe I ran out of ammo for one weapon, but I still had plenty for other weapons, so it was not an issue.

Seriously, go play the game. It's fun! 
As For The Engine 
Visually, it is gorgeous for outdoor scenarios and it's good for indoors. It lacks some of the visual features of other engines (or its predecessor for that matter), but it more than makes up for it because the environment is so varied. No tiling really means much better immersion.

But the main point for me is that the engine performs incredibly well, even on my laptop, while looking mostly great and being really responsive. In Doom 3, I constantly felt like I was underwater or something. The controls were not as responsive as what I was used to, it was as if the mouse input was heavily filtered or something. This is not the case in Rage - it responds immediately to every movement you make with your mouse.

So while you can criticize that in some aspects, the engine is a step back from IDtech4 (or whatever the Doom 3 engine is), it is a huge step forward in many other aspects and personally, those aspects weigh heavier for me. I don't need normal maps and glossy shaders if I have non-repeating textures. Anyhow, I'm sure they'll figure out a way to stream normal maps and all that stuff into graphics memory in the future. 
Megacatch22 
Cant go high resolution on large worlds because the filesize is enormous and on a small scale you dont really need it.
Rage looks good because the art-design work is great and its very polished. And Rage looks bad because the technology is less than optimal and a lot of detail went down the drain when they had to shrink all the textures. 
Interesting 
megalodon, reviewers are full of it. Always. Critics sometimes get it right, but in general anyone who is paid to write about a game objectively doesn't.

The 'Rage is crap' bandwagon got rolling on day one with the buggy release, that was quickly fixed.

I'll be getting it for myself for Christmas. 
Ps3 Demo 
i tried it, and i liked it a lot.

played the demo on hard and it wasnt that hard, but i did die a bunch of times [still not used to playing fps with a controller].

the racing was weird at first but still managed to get 1st. the texture pop-in was there on the ps3, but nothing to annoy me. i guess i'm used to it after playing a lot of unreal engine games that have a lot of it.

the game looks gorgeous on the ps3, and seeing pc screenshots it must be fucking awesome to see it running on one.

i'm still kinda scared of getting it though. i have two ati cards crossfired together [5670s, no money to upgrade yet] so i don't know.

maybe i'll get it anyway early next year. but i played the ps3 demo like 5 times already, but have they said that there will be a pc demo? its kinda dumb not to have one for it. damn you bethesda! 
 
i played with a single 8800 gt something. was no problem. so unless the ATI drivers still suck it should work.

for a demo you could always pirate it. more convenient than the drm anyways... 
I Tried 
it on a Radeon HD 6970M yesterday. It runs very smoothly, but sometimes there are white flashes where a part of the screen turns white for one frame. It's pretty annoying. 
Seriously. 
If you like the PS3 demo just get it on PC. It looks great, has a strong atmosphere, and plays just plain fun. No brainer imo. 
 
i always wanted to get it on pc, but was a bit afraid of all the weird shit going on at release [mostly with ati cards it seems]. i tried the ps3 demo because there is no pc demo. would have been a great way to see if i could run it with or without issues.

i guess i'll probably just get it anyway, since thats what i always end up doing :) 
I Had Rage On ATI At Launch (crossfire Too) 
And yeah - it was buggy. I hasd texture pop-in, and weird flags (I mean the actual decorative flags in the game were weird), but after a patch and some new drivers everything worked fine. The game runs super-smooth and looks purfect ;) 
Gah 
so i bought during the steam sale, and man it runs not so great. i have massive texture pop-in. and when i turned on the pc today to play some more, the framerate is like 20fps or something :(

the day i got it, i turned off crossfire and the game worked really well, except for the texture poping which somehow stopped the more i played.

so during that time the game was lost of fun. i really like it, but now the problems are back and with or without crossfire turned on, trying a lot of things i have found online nothing seems to make it work like that again.

it feels like using my old pentium celeron and trying to run doom3 with the integrated chipset! :D

:( 
Did You 
Update your drivers for your GPU? 
I Did 
i have the latest ones. before installing them, i uninstall the old ones and then use regcleaner & drivesweeper to clean whatever junk is left off from them.

one thing i did this morning, was change some settings on catalyst [i think force v-sync it was, i was too sleepy to remember] and the game runs really smooth, but still have texture pop-in, annoying but i can live with it. if it stays this way, then i'll be more than happy.

its kinda disappointing how blurry some look. like the engine popped the temp blurry ones and it takes ages or forgets to load the normal/high res ones. :( 
Use The Config I Posted Above 
 
Thanks Megaman 
while texture pop-in is still there, its not as intense as before. and the textures are sharp too. i think the frame rate goes from 60 to 40, but i can live with that. :)

still i'm kinda disappointing in id. witcher 2 runs without issues on high [not ultra or whatever the highest is called] and no slowdowns or any weird shit. 
New Patch Is Out 
http://store.steampowered.com/news/?appids=9200

and now you can get high-res textures amateur retexturing project style:

Texture Detail: Enabling Texture Detail will improve up-close texture quality by performing upsampling with adaptive sharpening.

ON OFF, ON OFF (HTML stolen from badboyquake, thanks)

Good old TomazQuake's detail textures seem better to me. Might be better in-game of course. 
Http://www.bethblog.com/2012/02/02/rage-campaign-edition-now-on-mac/#m 
Now that the PC update is out, we�re focusing our attention on getting the tools ready for release. When it�s ready for release, we�ll let you guys know. 
Had A Peek 
The texture sharpening doesn't really add much at all, and as it seems to be done universally to every surface you can end up with some strange artifacts on textures that should be flat colour, where the sharpening has brought up otherwise invisible pixels on the texture.

But, tools, yay! I guess :) 
 
So I just finished off the Shrouded Bunker, shot up some bandits and entered the Dead City using this patch. It works well for me, definitely seems to improve performance.

The upsampling didn't give me any slowdown at all - quite the contrary: with the other changes in this patch I'm running a good deal faster than before and can now enable GPU Transcode without framerate turning to mush.

Glad to see UBOs back. I've done work with Constant Buffers in D3D11 and they are a very worthwhile performance booster. In particular if you have a lot of uniforms to upload, using a buffer of some kind is substantially faster than uploading them one at a time.

I'm not overly bothered about the detail textures. They look OK; they're nice and subtle rather than overpowering and distracting you from the main diffuse texture (a fault many Quake engines that implement this can succumb to, IMO). 
NEED MOAR CONTENT 
 
 
before the patch, the game ran really well [thanks to megaman for the link to the different configs on the steam forums] but now, it runs like shit.

i had the game running without anti-aliasing and with v-sync on and it worked nicely, but this new patch makes it all run so slow. i can turn off v-sync and it goes becomes awesome fast, but the problem is that i get massive texture pop-ins :(

i still had texture pop-in before, but nothing that would be annoying like this.

and now i'm sad. i really liked the game, was on my second playthrough and now i think i'll stop. i think i have like 60hrs according to steam.

and the texture detail option makes everything look so ugly. sure it looks sharp, but too sharp. like going into photoshop and over sharpening everything. but thats just me.

i wish we could go back to a previous version, this is one of the reasons why i dont like steam sometimes. 
The Post Above Me 
was by me. :) 
 
but steam is just soooooooooo convenient!! 
Nak 
You can turn off the texture sharpening in the graphics options, just fyi :) 
If It Runs Slow 
Most likely your hardware just isn't up to scratch. Stop trying to max it out, dial down some of the settings, it'll work. 
 
i know i can turn off the tex detail :) but its not my pc that makes it run slow though. before the patch, everything was running well. no frame drops.

after the patch, its like the game runs under 30fps. if i turn off v-sync [which is what made the game run smooth for me], textures pop like crazy, and it takes ages for them to load too in some places. :( 
Try Cvar_restart And Then Not Using The Configs? 
 
 
 
That was one of my major beefs with this game to be honest ... the lazy naming.

"The Wasteland"
"The Authority"
"The Resistance"

Come ON. 
 
Wow Taht Article Is Written Badly 
 
For Anyone Curious About Tools 
Meh 
excuses amount is abnormal. 
On Sale At Steam If You Haven't Got It Yet. 
It's on Halloween sale on Steam for $9.99 (only a day or so left on the sale though).

I put off buying it because I wasn't sure how well my computer would run it or if it was even worth playing. I just built a new computer and bought the game yesterday. So far I'm to the Dead City and it's been pretty enjoyable so far. Easily worth 10 bucks. 
 
this game has a TERRIBLE reputation, and I'm afraid I was influenced by it (I forgot that video game journalists are actual morons, not only in the sense that they have bad taste in games but if you read some reviews you really get the sense they are barely functioning idiots)

Judging from the screenshots alone I just can't imagine how this can be such a bad game.... unless it has spectacularly bad gameplay, but even its detractors admit the feeling of the weapon hitting enemies is really well done and frankly with a feature like that, how can it be so bad?

So I think I'll be giving this game a chance in the near future. I remember people judging harshly stuff like quake 1 (many idiots believed it had bad gameplay just because you couldn't blow the scenario up like in duke 3d) or quake 4 that was actually pretty great even if arguably it wasn't a masterpiece 
Dude 
Rage is a good game. But there are a couple of weird things about it:

The hub system used for the maps is odd. Underused, not much to explore. But it's great for whizzing around at great speed. But don't expect it to be gratifying like TES or Fallout 3 or something.

With all of the apparent freedom you get with Rage, it still plays like a highly linear shooter.

It's not bad for a shooter. And yeah - the graphics are awesome, but the texture popping was a bit off-putting. It's doesn't completely ruin the game, but if you experience it, you will find it weird.

Up-close, the textures often seem low-res, even with the high-res fixes applied. 
 
The main things wrong with Rage were purely technical; the initial AMD driver cock-up mostly.

Low res textures up close were a tradeoff against having non-tiled textures, a valid tradeoff but it annoyed a lot of people who didn't actually understand what they were seeing.

Some got confused and thought they were getting something like a Fallout game. Their own fault for not informing themselves really.

The ending sucks.

Other than that there is a whole HEAP of butthurt over id selling to Zenimax and focussing on consoles. Much of the bad rep comes purely from those two rather than any attempt to judge the game on it's own merits. IMO of course. 
 
Went back to rage to replay it and I still think the gunplay is fantastic, but I definitely had much more of a negative reaction to the filler bullshit than first time. Knowing that the plot is completely throw-away makes the inability to skip dialogue and the mandatory driving crap pretty infuriating.

This wouldn't be so bad but the game is very poorly paced early on. After some tame shooting levels (it's okay they're tame, they're introducing mechanics) you just get bogged down for ages running from a to b, listening to boring dialogue, and doing driving... get your buggy... now put guns on your buggy, now drive here, now drive here, what? Your buggy sucks, get a better buggy.

Then it suddenly forgets all that shit and just leaves you bounce from mission to mission of shooting and it's great again.

Or is it just me that feels that way? :p 
You Hit The Nail On The Head There. 
I feel the same way about it. The shooting levels are great, but the driving and plot sucks.

Actually some of the actualy vehicular combat was cool, but all of the driving justto get to the next map - all just felt a bit pointless. 
Yeah 
would be nice if the option to streamline was given. Or mission select, a al HL2. 
I Like It 
as it is.
But the Radeon bug sucked so hard.
Especialy my card, the HD5830, was affected.
Even when i found a proper workaround, i had low fps around ~30.
Fortunately i have a 3,5ghz hexacore cpu, which seemed to compensate some of the speed proplems. 
DLC Incoming: The Scorchers 
It's a bit late but Tuesday the 18th is out:

http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/id-tech-5-project/1226946p1.html 
 
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/279996359518588928

someone has promised that the last remaining issue with releasing the Rage tools will be fixed over the Christmas break... 
Don't Bother With The DLC 
It's a proper waste of money and time. 
 
why? what is wrong with it? 
 
Oh that's not addressed to players... Negke has acccess to Zenimax's internal memos to iD. 
That Too 
But it's just more of the same, and boring at that, without addressing any of the issues from the original game. Small, linear and massively clipped levels and the play time is artificially stretched by horde/arena combat style in many areas. A cave, a factory, another instance of Mutant Bash TV, a sewer section, and an old temple (which doesn't look so bad, but any potential it may have had is wasted by the construction). The nailgun is cool, a sort of SMG and light sniper rifle in one, but ultimately pointless. Ok, there are a few new enemies, too.

I didn't expect much, but it still feels incredibly underwhelming. Also it seems to require a late savegame (far into the game), otherwise it will be very hard or even unbeatable. Probably best to make this part of a complete replay of the game at some point (or ideally part of a first playthrough), rather than installing it again only to check out the DLC stuff. 
That's Unfortunate 
 
DLC 
How does it make a difference if you start the DLC early or late in the game ? RAGE doesn't have a leveling system, does it ?

That Mutant Bash thing is insane. Why would you include the absolute worst part of the original game into the DLC again ?

But it's only $5 and that new girl Sarah looks great, so, fair enough, I guess ... 
Negke 
i was unable to find something like Start Scorchers in the menus, how it's accessible? i need to replay final level? or am i missing something? 
 
Ron: My first attempt was after starting a new game, because I didn't have any old savegames. I found it to be quite tough, even after lowing the difficulty from Hard to Normal, very tight on ammo. After the first two levels, I stoppen and replayed the DLC from scratch using someone else's 'late' savegame. Bringing better weapons and crafting recipes from a later save definitey helps. As a matter of fact, I didn't find any of the advanced weapons in the new levels (you only get the normal assault rifle and the nailgun), but ammo piles and especially the boss fight suggests you need equipment from the normal game.

Vondur: You get a popup message ingame that gives you the mission right after loading a saved game. However, if you start a new game, you only get it after completing the first mission and reporting back to Hagar. The entrance to the DLC is in the back of the Hagar Settlement. 
Negke 
thanks! 
Weird 
I think iD has come really far in terms of game development, and RAGE was potentially (and technically) their best game. The guys at iD let us down in a few areas, lack of boss battles, crap end portion of the game and lack of MP... but generally speaking I enjoyed the hell out of RAGE. Anyone saying it's not worth 10 bucks is a moron. 
Fucking Steam 
via Daz:
http://www.bethblog.com/2013/02/08/rage-tool-kit-available-today-on-steam/

Later today on Steam we will be releasing the official tool kit for RAGE � the same tools used to create RAGE and it�s DLC, The Scorchers. From the game�s world building tool, idStudio, to game maps and assets, the kit provides everything you need to get started with modding the first-ever idTech 5 title.

Interested? Before you start downloading the hefty 35+ GB file, the RAGE team has provided some documents to read. As described in the welcome document, these tools provided are complex and aimed towards �technically sophisticated and adventurous� modders.

Welcome to the RAGE Tool Kit: http://cdnstatic.bethsoft.com/bethblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/RAGE%20Tool%20Kit%20Welcome.pdf

RAGE Tool Kit FAQ and EULA: http://cdnstatic.bethsoft.com/bethblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Rage%20Tool%20Kit%20FAQ.pdf

To download the kit itself, be on the lookout for the RAGE Tool Kit in the Tools section of Steam (the same place you�d download Skyrim�s Creation Kit).

On behalf of everyone at id, we look forward to seeing your creations. If you have something to share, shoot us an email or share it with our id Software Facebook and Twitter accounts.


Snippet from the EULA:

If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit. 
All Your Base Are Belong To Us 
 
EULA 
Well they basically give you all the raw assets to screw around with and modify 
 
That is the point of modding... 
EULA 
Sorry for the stupid questions but I don't remember any EULA of editing tools being like the this. Anything you create with the editing tools automatically belongs to Id? for free? Why would anyone want to use the editing tools if you are creating content without any personal rights?

Was the previous editor tools (doom3) like this? 
 
isnt blizzard's eula for starcraft2 the same too? normally whenever an editor is relaesed they usually go with a "do whatever as long you sont make money out of it?" - then again i never paid much attention to them :)

and whatever this update did, the game runs really smooth now. update 1.2 [?] made it run like shit. though the 64bit takes like 8+ min to load? it just seem to be stuck there forever whenever i try it, so i always cancel it after a while.

unless i need the sdk to run it? gah? 
 
from what I know, starcraft mods are pretty much online only with blizzard hosting them so they would need clauses like that. 
Doom3 License 
You shall not rent, sell, lease, lend, offer on a pay-per-play basis, or otherwise commercially exploit or commercially distribute the New Creations. You are permitted to distribute, without any cost or charge, the New Creations only to other end-users [...]


Bethesda lawyers took it a step further. 
Friends 
Friends, I'm a dude who loves the old style of fpses... doom, quake (played those a shitload), serious sam (second encounter and 3) and I kept the hell away from rage because it was flooded by criticism and I expected some sort of modern tacticool shooter.

I tried it on steam on the free week end and I was really sucked in... obviously the visuals are pretty but the game\gunplay and challenge factor are absolutely top notch despite the health regen mechanic.

Plenty of cool weapons and enemies who behave in interesting ways... what sets the game apart are the reactive, varied and convincing animations (you need to play it to realize it). I think there is some truly impressive technology and IA* behind that

Really fun game with very pretty visuals, I don't care much about the flaws (well I hate health regen but the game on ultra nightmare manages to be challenging still I would love a return to the medkit). The bad rep this game has is undeserved, and I would love a sequel expanding on the gameplay (maybe adding more types of monsters)

Oh and yes the scorcher dlc is hard as balls (at least on ultra nightmare) and I think you should play it after the main campaign 
Umda? 
Flawed but very enjoyable regardless. Like women!
My main gripes were uninspired map layouts and chest high cover / wack a mole style gunplay made worse by the health regen. Tier 2 weapons completely deprecated tier 1 in the good old Id tradition of simplifying/streamlining everywhere except the parts where it matters, bwahaha. Though it was still better than Dewm 3 despite even those flaws, imho. Then again, spawning imps behind you in glowing pentagrams for 123456789 times totally doesn't get predictable ever, if it did, they would've noticed somewhere in those 5 years, logic man. Just wish Rage was a bit more... you know, Quake1-ish gameplay on the whole? I really enjoyed the racing parts as well, that was one of the best aspects of the vidyagame . Tho I wish I could put gold rims on my fuzzy dice with the pimping thing.n Apart from that, the story reads like it was written by a 13 year old. Which really hurt the believability of an otherwise very lovingly crafted (aha) world. Also, an ending would have been... nice? You know, like Romero or robot Hitler.. Visually one of the best games ever imo (rly), even despite the low texel density.
Oh btw, if any Id employees read this, please let us kill Tim Willits at the end of the next game.

You know, it's too easy being a critic.
And I feel a bit drunk.. 
Then 
You haven't drank enough. 
 
I prefer not waking up without pants.

Then again, pants are overrated. 
Spiney 
spiney I agree with your insane and rambling drunk criticism, for the most part.

Uninspired level layouts? YES I AGREE STRONGLY

Whack a mole gun play? Well not necessarily, at least I personally played it very aggressively on nightmare\ultra nightmare (the game doesn't have an exaggerated spread like other modern fpses), also there are some parts swarming with ultra fast and mobile mutants and you are basically forced to move around a lot (on ultra nightmare of course)

"Just wish Rage was a bit more... you know, Quake1-ish gameplay on the whole?" everybody wishes that of course but we can't have too much nice things on this planet

"Apart from that, the story reads like it was written by a 13 year old." Yes. I don't mind it that much in a shooter if the action is good\decent but they could improve it. IN a sequel I would like less combine soldiers and more satanist bandits\ monsters\ general post apocalyptic stuff

"Also, an ending would have been... nice? You know, like Romero or robot Hitler.." Yes pretty weird way to end a game

Anyway thanks for your reply and your rambling\drunk way of writing criticism while still maintaining coherency. 
Played A Bit 
not bad

don't agree with the cover comment. you can freely charge in and blast things.

massive sound compression on id software logo video... wtf?

beautiful open world look... with invisible walls everywhere. depressing.

terrain makes my jaw drop 
Rage Was A Very Pretty Game 
but ultimately felt unfinished. Imagine if it had just a couple more encounters with bigger bad guys and it had a proper boss battle at the end. That could have propelled the game from being a 6 or 7 to a full 10/10 IMO.

Was the game too grandiose for id to make properly? They are still not a large enough developer for such a project IMO. 
 
You can charge freely but you'll need to dodge all the waist high cover that's littered everywhere. And the smarter enemies use it a lot.
And if you get hit by something your screen turns annoyingly red. Maybe it's because I played on the higher difficulty, dunno... just feels more pop and stop than it should be at times, it's different with the mutants tho. Maybe i'm too noobish? That's always a possiblity 
 
i usually just jump over the waist high cover. i do use it sometimes though.
mind you, i'm only playing on hard and haven't gotten far into the game so maybe when it becomes more difficult, i'll need to hide more or something. 
Rage 
"Was the game too grandiose for id to make properly? They are still not a large enough developer for such a project IMO. "

I think that's why they should have expanded rage with a sequel instead of starting from scratch again with doom 4.

"it's because I played on the higher difficulty, dunno... just feels more pop and stop than it should be at times"

On the highest difficulty enemies are extremely precise. I still managed to rush the majority of the fights. You can still pull out your rocket lawn chair to quickly resolve stand stills, even while jumping around.

On hard you can run strafe bullets at least at the beginning 
Lovehatelovehatelovehatelovehatelovehatelovehate... 
Rage is one of those games that I just can't help but sigh in disappointment, while at the same time, can't stop but return and play it because damn, the gameplay feel so satisfying. I agree with some of the previous commenters here, playing through it (for the third time), while the gameplay fundamentals feels refined (aiming, shooting, movement) the whole design feels incoherent and incomplete.

Vast expanse of land, cool, but then again, nothing much to do but only to go from objective to objective. Shame that they didn't even consider making those points of interests have respawning enemies on revisit. The concept of megatexture, wow. I really like the amount of texture detail per surface, rarely spotting an absolute repeating texture. But, meh, concrete, rocks and debris, looking at it as a whole...

I'm not bothered by the gratuitous texture pop-ins as it means the game, in return, just chugs on for me at a consistent 60+fps. The screen tears a bit too much though. Also, seriously love the fact that there's almost nonexistent amount of depth-of-field, blur, bloom. Keeps the whole game clear. And makes me appreciate the surface textures even more.

Some may not like it, but I love the over-animated npcs. Makes them feel cartoony and I like it that way. Kinda fits with the not-really-photorealistic visual design. The enemy movements are commendable too.

The vehicle feels great, but then again, finite amount of bad guys so later ends in just driving in vastness of nothing.

The arena and the racing I like too, but without much variety (on replay the mutant-bash only has, like, two variations?) it get stale pretty quickly.

The weapon feel-idsoftware grade of refinement. The weapon and ammo variety, is indeed varied, but-with the exception of the shotgun and pistol-ammunition and money are pretty finite, so unless you are a fan of the shotgun and pistol, other folks preferring other weapons would feel shortchange for the experience of the other weapons.

In the end, the only REAL downer for me for the game is the fact that, for a game that really works aces on the shooting department, you will-in such a big, semi-open landscape-run out of things to shoot. Which makes the post-campaign freeroam on the DLC/patch pointless.

But still, like it way better than Doom 3. 
Replaying Rage 
I have previously played about 2/3 through the game on a PC and right now I am replaying it on a PS3 with all the DLC. Why did the game fail to do well financially? Was it all about the backlash to initial driver problems? The game itself is really REALLY good. Sure, there is some filler and the story is forgettable, but the 2 important things: actual combat/gunplay and environment design are phenomenal. 
Rago 
but the 2 important things: actual combat/gunplay and environment design are phenomenal.

I have to make a couple of points here:

1) If by "environment design" you mean the visual art side of it, then I agree it is phenomenal, but that is not one of the two most important things in a game.

2) if by "environment design" you mean "level design", then I agree it is one of the two most important things in a game, but in Rage, the level design is not phenomenal - it is very linear, simplistic and dull. 
Kinn 
For an FPS, in the age of COD and games-trying-to-be-COD, Rage level design is very much non-linear, but yes, I did mostly mean the visual art side of things. 
 
Because it is a fucking idiotic mix of a racing game and a mediocre FPS with an awful GUI/UX (on PC), shallow story, lifeless world, boring missions, stupid gimmicks, invisible walls, shit gameplay but really really fancy static environments. 
Waitwat 
Where are RAGE levels non-linear? 
Well You Can 
either go left or right around the boulders in the wastelands. 
To Be Fair 
You have to re-navigate each level backwards at a later point in the game.

Oh wait, that's still shit. 
 
Seriously. Every level in RAGE is on a rail. I'm not complaining, if that's what they wanted, that's fine but I can count the number of times I had an actual choice on one middle finger. 
 
Just throw me a bunch (horde) of enemies and fuck the rails of whatever they are

Why does everybody complain?

Great game with a great gameplay(a side of racing) and level design 
Offtop 
the last great game using id's engine was
wolfenstein 2009 
 
They wasted it, they could of done much better indeed with respawning and as to linearity. Again those decisions at ID... 
"Mission Packs" 
Something occurred when reading above, ID use to have other studios go ahead and make expansion packs for their games, and some of those were pretty OK. Why are they not doing this with Rage to get more out of the whole base they built up with it ? 
Killes 
The accountants obviously made some predictions based on Rage's sales and decided it wasn't worth the cost of development. 
Quake 4 Got No Addons 
for the same reason - it didn't sell enough. 
 
<< it didn't sell enough.

so what the difference between the sells of q1 and q2

or is it sellmark completely changes over the years?

it's just laziness, imho 
Sellmarket 
 
I Don't Have The Figures 
but just imagine the man-hours (aka money) required to make Rage, and compare with the man-hours required to make Quake1. Offset your gross against that to gauge whether or not it gets a mission pack.

That's why everyone involved in Quake1 drives a Ferrari. 
Laziness 
Isn't an issue - a whole company isn't just slack off for a week.

It's pretty much as Kinn says, although there are other factors of fear of risk and lack of vision.

Bravery and imagination are not required in the business side of games development, so are not encouraged. And anyone at the top of the food chain in one of the bigger games company has learned long ago when to cut their losses. 
 
Right. It's a financial decision, it's not lazyness. What company in it's right mind would make mission packs for a game that didn't sell well? Business suicide. 
Mr. Kinn 
I got your point

So what the main issue with a Rage?

an awkward ending? linearity 
Heheh 
Not enough people bought it!

The industry has changed. Now you need small teams producing things like Candy Crush. AAA projects are becoming niche compared to the massive exposure such filler games get.

Also: http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/01/22/the-banner-saga-3/

fuKING idiots. 
They Are Not Devious Enough Or What ? 
Well the work is done Rage is there, its built right....and they could bring those sales with some quality additions and recoup some of the losses through Steam promotional game+addon bundles and also give some weight to the IP to shift off a Rage 2 to a totally different cheap crapass studio for a cashgrab... 
Hah 
You're forgetting:

1. No Bravery

2. No Imagination 
 
Something occurred when reading above, ID use to have other studios go ahead and make expansion packs for their games, and some of those were pretty OK. Why are they not doing this with Rage to get more out of the whole base they built up with it ?

They wanted to. Then Zenimax saw that Rage didn't sell very well, took a look at the state of Doom 4, and shitcanned every non-Doom 4 product so the team would focus on one goal.

Except they forgot to fire Willits, so Doom 4 is still spinning wheels in shit.

Just throw me a bunch (horde) of enemies and fuck the rails of whatever they are

LOL this fucking guy. 
 
I guess id are trying to put the Rage saga behind them and pretend it never existed. I haven't played it yet, but I imagine part of it's failure is simply because it's id, and id are expected to delivery revolutionary games. Gamers sights were set too high.

Wolfenstein was the same, it didn't really sell that great did it? 
 
Gamers sights were set too high.

They were. By id. 
 
I never actually played Wolfenstein 2009, was it any good? 
It Is 
the main issue , i wish it could've been much longer, bam-bam and what is it? it's the end

one of the favorite game ever, it has a great replayability , with it's secrets and all 
Whats Wrong With Willits? 
I suppose being creative director of the "worst" id games says a lot, but he made some of my favourite quakes maps :P 
 
Some people here make great maps but they couldn't direct a game for shit, either. 
I Liked Rage 
but calling the ending "awkward" is incorrect. It didn't have an ending. It had a mild arena fight and a button pressing.

When it just put you in a place with targets, it was a solid game. It ran well (for me at least), the shooting felt good, the AI and animation coordination was great. But it was all over the place. I had to drive everywhere, through waves of respawning enemy cars, and when I got back I had to spend money to repair my vehicle and refill my ammo, so I could make it to the next level. I had to compete in races for arbitrary upgrades that were gating content I wanted to play.

I liked the shooting, the looting, the spaces I was fighting in - but the game kept putting me at arm's length away from it.

I would've much preferred 10 hours of the Dead City, the Subway Station, and the Bank Vaults or whatever they were called. Put me in those, put items in front of me (and hidden), and let me enjoy that shooting, and the AI and animation. Oh, and actually end. 
 
"They were. By id. "

That's very true. The marketing preceding Rage's release was mind blowing to look back on. What they said they were making and what they actually released were so far apart it was staggering. 
 
I've managed to not recall any of the marketing about Rage before hand. I think my eyes were more focused on the tech, I might have to go digging around for preview articles or such. 
 
The original topic post has a bunch of links to preview videos and such.

Just watch through the "RAGE Behind the Scenes" series up there and you'll hear all about the deep and meaningful story, etc. 
 
i liked it at the start, but stopped playing once i needed to race to progress.

i think i wouldn't have minded driving as much as i did except I couldn't figure out how to get my gamepad working just for driving. 
 
I think I only had to race once or twice to progress ... it's very minimal, IIRC. 
Marketing 
I love that id had the balls to just show uninterrupted gameplay footage in trailers leading up to the release. That is so rare these days :(

If you make your purchase decision based on those gameplay trailers then you knew exactly what you were getting. I enjoyed rage (minus the driving sections) but I was just expecting a good fps rather than some fallout3/fps rpg that some people thought it was going to be? The level design was extremely linear and lacked exploration, but the combat was satisfying and meaty.

I've played it to completion twice, which is more than I can say about 90% of games I play. 
 
Hah yeah, actually I played through it again myself when they implemented Ultra Nightmare difficulty, and a second playthrough is rare for me. It wasn't that it was a game that blew my mind, but a lot of it was really... comfortable. 
^^^ 
Those previous 2 posts, and Scarecrows.

Rage was a good shooter - you got solid, meaty FPS action in some spectacular environments. The characters were mildly entertaining too, and the optional racing / mini-games were fine. The main problems were having the necessary racing shoe-horned in, and a really weak ending. Fix those and it would have been a great game. Throw in some non-linearity and yeah an extra 10 hours of Dead City, it would have been excellent.

At the end of the day, after playing it, I just wanted more RAGE. Which is a good sign. But I didn't get any....ah well. 
 
I just can't wrap my head around the ending... at all. What was the logic behind that? Was it an attempt at a 'cliff hanger', thereby galvanizing consumer demand for expansion packs?
Did they finish the game a week before it was released?
What was that? 
Not Intentional 
There's no way they planned for that ending.

They basically cut it so they could ship in time.

If I had a dollar every time I played a game with a rushed, unfinished ending...

Bit sad to see it from a studio like id though. 
Well, Then... 
...it's time for a HUGE DLC wrapping up the thing for good.
Ain't it? 
Racing 
Was one of my fav parts of it, felt really well executed. 
 
i just wanted to shoot things. played again last night; forced myself to do the mandatory race, then was rewarded with a simple fetch quest that was only driving. stopped playing again.

the racing might be well implemented, but i just don't want to drive a car. i want to shoot things dead. :( 
 
someone should make a massive mod that fixes all the things people didn't like, ie removing the racing parts completely 
Raging Boner 
Am I the only one that didn't mind Rage's driving stuff? Honestly, the problem with Rage was its overall lack of ambition in design, and I would direct most of that criticism towards the incredibly samey, simplistic, dungeon crawls where there is nothing to the gameplay beyond travelling down a series of tunnels and shooting a load of blokes with guns. If your only metric for quality is "does it feel meaty and satisfying when I shoot Mohawk Vinnie Jones in the balls?", then Rage scores high, but I dunno, compare its design to Half-Life 2 (nearly a decade older than Rage), and it pales pitifully. 
Rage Would Have Been Better 
If the outdoors environment had more gameplay/exploration/scavanging. The 'missions' were good - good shooter action, nice LD (I thought anyway - linear disguised as non-linear). The racing parts were OK, but it would have been better if there was more chaos and exploration in the outdoors areas. More random stashes of loot, NPCs just wondering around doing their own thing would have been nice to talk to.... 
 
One thing I didn't like was the overworld/dungeon distinction. With this tech I expected everything to be a seamless world. Apart from that, I think a medpack system would have been really nice here, turns a bit pop and stop a lot of times, avoiding crossfire etc.
If the world was seamless things could have been made a bit more of a simulation, so the macro and micro game would be more interconnected etc. 
 
"Am I the only one that didn't mind Rage's driving stuff?"

I didn't mind it, it was just ... filler. I had to drive places, shoot things, and drive back. The driving parts were peppered with enemy cars that were easily ignored and nothing special happened - ever. It was annoying and clearly only there to eat up gameplay time. 
 
FFS, they didn't even implement Fast Travel for locations you've already been to. 
 
The driving to places doesn't bother me much, but it really sucked there wasn't any point exploring since everything is locked anyway, and areas that look like they might have been interesting to explore are clipped to hell.
The races are what I disliked. Being forced to do them and having them be non-trivial (so that I had to expend effort in something I had no interest in) annoyed me the most.
The game seems to promise things but doesn't deliver:
look and feel of an open world game -> no point exploring anything 
Rented It, Installed It, Uninstalled It And Returned! 
All in a matter of minutes(< 60) :(

It was 20 years ago style find keys/items, unlock door ad nauseam. In this decade a game being made should present more than 1996 Quake wrapped in MEGAtexturing!

At least, in.my.mot.so.humble.opinion. 
 
Hating on Id is the cool new thing right? 
Piss Off Spiney 
 
I Enjoyed Rage.. 
but the points people are making completely valid.

This huge world should have been more interesting to explore, but it's barren of any real content (other than looking very pretty).
The levels were really nice too but the gameplay suffered a little because the majority of enemies were very samey.
The lost city should have been so much more.
The big boss fight about half-way through the game was neat but a little simple.
No big boss at the end was a huge huge huge disappointment.
The racing parts, while I enjoyed them, shouldn't have been mandatory. 
 
I think you have to give a game a bit more than less than an hour to judge it. not that i've played rage, yet. 
Just In Case It's Not Obvious 
It was 20 years ago style find keys/items, unlock door ad nauseam. In this decade a game being made should present more than 1996 Quake wrapped in MEGAtexturing!

This is a complete fabrication. 
Yeah. 
Games should definitely present in-depth stories and emotional characters, lengthy cutscenes, quicktime events, immersive real world scenarios, plenty of puzzles / combat complexities / RPG elements ....cos all those things are essential for a good shooter. 
 
Why do you guys even install games anymore? You want Quake, so just play Quake. :) 
Cos... 
I enjoyed playing Rage.

I like lots of modern FPS games, but generally what makes them good are the core mechanics and aesthetics, rather than superficial window-dressing. 
What I'm Hearing Here 
... is that feeling of frustration that comes from seeing something that has the fundamentals down right but falls short of greatness for seemingly silly, trivial reasons. Which is much worse than the frustration that comes from something just being common-or-garden variety crap. 
For Me 
For an FPS to be great, you need an environment that is properly part of the gameplay, i.e. level design that's not just "shoot blokes". The Half-Life games are the ultimate examples of this, and still by far the best shooters ever made. Quake 1/2 also had it going on, in a more primitive, arcadey way. I long for the golden days of FPS when I felt I was exploring a vast, complex world (e.g. Unreal 1), whilst also having the core mechanics of shooty monstery stuff.

Most modern shooters are just about shooting men with incredibly realistic animations and models, and the only environment elements that enter the gameplay space are cover objects - the rest of the environment may as well be a skybox for all the difference it makes. 
Kinn. 
Have you played Bulletstorm by any chance?? 
Shamb. 
Worthy? 
Sahmblre 
ButtStorm is exactly the same (exactly as shit) as, say CoD, the only difference being that the combat arenas are littered with lots of Explo-Barrels (and variations of).

When I'm talking about a meaningful environment in an FPS game, I mean primarily an environment that you can explore, and ideally one that also contains non-combat gameplay.

I think the difference is, with a game like quake or unreal, a level designer typically says "I want to make an interesting (castle/spaceship/magical mushroom cave) with a clever layout and a varied selection of challenges for the player to overcome, and all sorts of things to discover."

With CoD (and most modern shooters, they just say "I want to make a load of guns and a load of men to shoot with those guns. For the levels, we'll just get our artists to make some cool looking shit, and we'll fill the gaps between shooting with cutscenes and QTEs." 
 
to be more specific, when i was saying 'i just want to shoot stuff' i actually meant 'i just want to do primarily FPS related stuff' (eg: NOT racing game related stuff) which I take to include things like exploration, some small amounts of puzzle solving, admiring awesome looking levels (rage scores 100% on this one). 
Kinn, 
I was being sarcastic. Bullshitstorm was exactly the sort of pointlessly pretty environmental cobblers you were on about ;) 
 
"The Half-Life games are the ultimate examples of this, and still by far the best shooters ever made."

I puked a little reading this.

Half-life was pretty cool when it was originally released and still a nice game, but to me it didn't age as good as a doom or quake or other classic style (I call them "good style") fpses. If you are a modern gamer, hl1 - 2 are not going to provide you with something that different from your average fps, while doom and quake have a fresher gameplay.

Hl2 is just pointless and boring in my opinion. You just know the developers thought the focus was the inane plot and the inane dialogue cutscenes (oh they are not cutscenes because you can pointlessly move gordon around), I think rage is funnier to play than hl2 and obviously cooler to look at. The gameplay in hl2 in particular is so unfun and boring and unchallenging that you feel they actually worked overtime to make it so dull. Also all of the weapon seem so damped in power (with ridicolously low ammo clips, hours to reload, low ammo capacity) to make you use the gravity gun (a pointless gimmick, in hindsight) as much as possible. It's like they actually feared the player would have too much fun using guns to just pick up crates and toilets and toss them at the few, unharmful monsters 
HLs... 
HL1 was cheesy and overrated.

HL2 was everything the first game should have been, slick, stylish and atmospheric. The gameplay wasn't as visceral as other shooters but it was certainly enough to make a great game. 
Half-Life 1 
kind of was like the old horror films back in the early days. It was pretty unique at the time. It was definitely the right game at the right time, I fully recommend anyone play Black Mesa (it's free!).

Yeah it was kinda cheesy but this is part of the charm 
Unique. 
That's what I didn't find it. The vibe and atmosphere were straight out of X-Files / any other government paranoia production, the interaction was a small evolution from stuff like Unreal that had already taken some fine steps in that direction. It was well-executed and a good game but underwhelming compared to the hype. Xen was cool though. That was fresh. 
Xen Was The Worst! 
When I said unique I meant amongst videogames. It definitely drew a lot of inspiration from films and TV 
 
"That's what I didn't find it. The vibe and atmosphere were straight out of X-Files / any other government paranoia production, the interaction was a small evolution from stuff like Unreal that had already taken some fine steps in that direction. It was well-executed and a good game but underwhelming compared to the hype. Xen was cool though. That was fresh."

That was fantastic. THAT is how you bald faced troll with a straight face. Masterful, sir. 
I've Been Trolled? 
Yeah Right. 
Straight up truth and you know it.

Conversely, something like Deus Ex totally lived up to the hype and did exactly what it promised. Quite a rare thing in games in general. Well apart from these days where many of the big name FPS shooters promise to be vacuous shite, and indeed are. 
For Me Deus Ex... 
came completely out of nowhere. I saw a preview that was fairly low-key and I bought the game because the box looked cool and it had some interesting elements. I actually played the game for an hour and I disliked it. I then went back to it after a week and decided to play it for a few more hours and ended up loving the hell out of it, it became one of my alltime favourite games. 
Well There We Go. 
Hugs and peace allround. I don't think it was massively hyped....but it really did what it promised to. 
 
half-life1 is an overrated game actually. it was popular for doing more of a real life setting with a story, compared to other games of the time. ignoring duke nukem and sin that were also in modern city settings.

in hindsight the story wasn't actually that great though.

the design certainly wasn't that great, unreal and quake2 looked miles better.

it hasn't aged well because so many other games have gone down the same route of realism instead of fantasy for shooters, so it's all been done and done better since then.

but a game like quake has aged well because almost 20 years later there's still not really another game like it (not that i've played yet, or can remember). which pisses me off. 
 
Actually, what would you guys consider to be the closest game to Quake post 1996? Unreal is the obvious choice, but apart from that, I can't think of anything.

Definitely not the bright and zany Serious Sam or Painkiller with it's completely random levels and amateur enemies.

Nothing else has combined the hellish monsters, fast gameplay, and mix of fantasy/alien/horror/hell themes. 
SS And PK 
Are close to Doom.

Everyone looks at Quake differently though, and it's become, with all the content we've helped make, a different game.

The original was basically get from a to b, killing everything you can without being killed or getting caught in a trap. No fluff.

Games since that era have more fluff than a mattress factory.

I can't think of a game with such a clean concept that is so open and yet suggestive to user content creation. Probably why I'm here, still working on it. 
Killing Everything You Can Without Being Killed 
That describes Wolf3D, Doom, ROTT, and everything else. Quake is much more specific about this.

So you're still gonna kill things in Quake, but not like in Doom II. In Doom II, you mow down things by the dozen. In Quake you'll fight, say, three monsters at the max. Probably you'll fight three guys, but it's going to be like a virtual fighter. There will be more skill involved in the fighting.

(...)

All you had to do was press the button - you move the mouse and press the button - and it's as easy as that. In Quake, you'll have to really kill things. You won't just press the trigger and hit it, you'll have to really beat the living shit out of the thing until it's dead.
 
 
I don't consider Half-Life the least bit overrated. It was the narration and the realistic setting (the guns, the soldiers, and the fact that Black Mesa felt like an actual location) that made the game. Quake 2 & Unreal took very cautious steps toward NPCs and scripted sequences but Half-Life blew them out of the water.

I also would not describe Unreal as Quake-like. Quake was extremely generic with respect to map design (Duke3D of the time was the polar opposite) whileas Unreal went for maps that conveyed tons of awe-inspiring moments. Quake's maps were dull and uninspiring (although the first mission pack went a long way to alleviate this problem), even if they were functional (for all the action) and had a good layout. In Unreal, combat was in the background and only occasionally crept into the game. 
The Problem, As I See It... 
...boils down to one question: Do you play for the game or do you play to live an interactive movie? Recent games are pretty much that: movies. Some good, some not so much.

In that respect, SS and PK are a little more "play" oriented, but they sorely lack the beef of Quake hostility. And their gameplay is 10000 times more repetitive than Q's.

I'm currently replaying Quake 2, boy, THAT was something! 
 
I don't like deus ex. Interesting ideas, but it ultimately is a very boring shooter to play set in samey grey corridors.

To me the fun factor is the first and penultimate thing in a vidya or a fps.

Painkiller was really great in my opinion, and I disagree about variety, it was pretty great in that regard imho, sorry if I used great too much I'm not a native speaker and also I'm a turd idiot moron piece of shit... sigh... I can't fucking write :((((

I do agree though that painkiller is different from quake. What Serious Sam, Doom, Quake, Painkiller really have in common is that they are fun shooter 
 
fun shooterS, ignore my non native speaker TURD idiocy (that was more of a typo though) 
Rambling 
I don't think a modern "Quakelike" is necessarily hard to make, if you keep the basic premise in mind. Shades of brown and green, otherwise an absence of colours. Indoor areas of massive blockiness. Drab black-and-white lighting. Relentless combat involving crude weapons. Phlegmatic, single minded monsters that stumble into your gunfire like chainsaw-wielding lemmings, or lob projectiles at you before they switch to cannon-fodder mode and eventually explode in a fountain of "giblets". Oppressive music and sound effects. No story, no protagonist, no real attempt to communicate with the player. No interaction besides shooting and moving. No fancy particles except anemic dust and blood, no vegetation or other lifeforms unless thoroughly dead like those trees from Zerst�rer, and like the heaps of skulls adorning walls and doorways. The world is littered with pentagrams, crosses, demonic faces and unholy altars, but they all appear to be altars to nothing; since the game has no real story or setting (it cannot have those because it's not that kind of game), they cannot serve any particular purpose. The same goes for the handful of names taken from Lovecraft; they never actually matter besides sounding vaguely ominous. Like a half-assed iconoclastic statement without actual substance and without really trying to provide meaning. Thinly veiled mechanics.

It's mostly the absence of things that makes it unique. That makes Quake kind of an outstanding achievement, like a dehydrated nihilistic skeleton of a game, but it's also precisely what makes something like it unattractive to make, unless you're either a nihilist yourself or you hit the exact right balance of being talented and half-assed at the same time.

I think that's why such games aren't really made anymore. 
Why Are You Here? 
 
Because Wisdom 
 
Louis 
Why Are You Here?

Why are you asking? Did I not offer enough glowing praise for Quake? Did I allow myself too much of an opinion?

It might be hard to grasp for severely biased people, but I am not at odds with Quake's dreary, desiccated art style. I even said it was an achievement. I accept that such an art style is a valid thing to do. I respect it. You probably read it as a fundamental criticism of Quake, but that's not what it is. Read it again please.

Anyway, I'm here because I have an interest in Quake modding (I use a Quake-based engine myself) and I'm interested in games. But if my posting once in a blue moon is too much, well, you guys just tell me.

If that's what it is, then it's really kinda sad. 
Bg 
It sounded more like you didn't like the game at all.

It is stripped down, in all aspects, to leave just what's necessary to make one of the highest metacritic rated games of all time.

And I'm sure you can appreciate how difficult it is to not put more features into a game than are necessary. 
 
I don't like deus ex. Interesting ideas, but it ultimately is a very boring shooter to play set in samey grey corridors.

Hm, I don't really think of it as a 'shooter'. If you play it in the same way you would play HL or Quake, then yes, it's very boring. What I like about it is how the game invites the player to try to exploit as much of the environment as possible, even though it's way too gray and samey :P

I don't think I played another game besides Deus Ex that closely follows a storyline and at the same time feels like infinitely replayable. To me there usually seems to be a dichotomy between story driven design and replaybility as can be found in arcade games. 
Deus Ex Isn't A Shooter 
it's first person rpg. Sure, you can get guns *and* shoot people, but that's not really what the game is about. 
 
"Hm, I don't really think of it as a 'shooter'. If you play it in the same way you would play HL or Quake, then yes, it's very boring. What I like about it is how the game invites the player to try to exploit as much of the environment as possible, even though it's way too gray and samey :P"

I don't like the game at all no matter how you want to define it. Shooter, rpg, stealth game, to me it's pure boredom. It appeals to people who like sandboxness per se, you know the type of guy who gets excited by discovering you can use pepper spray on tripwire mines (even if it is completely useless as there are a billion ways of bypassing any challenge, all equally valid and boring as fuck).

The plot is very dumb and not very good. It's impressive the way the game keeps track of what you did, but that's not enough. Boring plot, boring gameplay, boring levels, boring everything 
Yes Those Are All Fair Points... 
...apart from the fact they are complete goatshit and it is still one of the very best games ever made. Unless you're a retard. 
Funny... 
...how empty praise is never a problem, but criticism? Uh oh. Fuck it, there's plenty of universally acclaimed stuff that bores me to tears, let people have their own opinions.

----

On a sidenote... Has anyone ever noticed how in Deus Ex, the first couple of levels all have monochrome lighting? I verified this in the editor. Only after you start getting in a bit further colored lighting starts becoming typical. That certainly contributes to the 'grey box' look it has. I wonder if the development of the game ran parallel with the development of the engine? It only came out a year after Unreal afaik. 
 
I don't think being so sensitive to criticism to deus ex is reasonable. To be honest, I loved the game when I was 13. As an adult, I thought it was just a mediocre game at best, with neat stuff like the game keeping track of small plot minutiae or using various approach to situation you can bypass the standard way anyway.

I liked bloodlines (similar to deus ex) more, if you liked deus ex you should probably check it out... it still has flaws but probably worth to check out 
Well There We Go. 
""To be honest, I loved the game when I was 13. As an adult""

As an adult the game was at least 5 years outdated. Not sure what was happening in the gaming world in the intervening 5+ years, but it is was probably enough to make DX seem less exciting... 
Blah 
Count me as another underwhelmed Deus Ex player. Admittedly I had to play it on super-low-graphics settings at the time, which made everything look like a brown-grey mush, but the fact that every. single. puzzle. had to be solved in one of exactly three ways (shoot, sneak, tech), which affected the highly-linear story not a jot was hateful. Also the circle-strafing bad guys. Totally ruined the immersion.

But then I remember thinking HL was a bag of wank at the time, too, because although it tried very hard to present what appeared to be an open, realistic world, it was so rigidly linear and yet sometimes the route forward was so obscure (I'm thinking of the passage through the rocks into the first minefield) that you spent ages backtracking fruitlessly.

HL2 was much better but I didn't bother to complete the boss fight at the end of Ep2 on the basis that mines that stick to things *but don't explode unless you shoot them* was an entirely infuriatingly, pointlessly convoluted way of killing the boss things, especially when you've just walked past an ammo dump FULL OF ROCKETS. 
 
I don't remember doing a lot of backtracking or getting lost in HL, but everyone has different experiences I guess... 
Apparently The Rage Thread... 
...is now the Every Single Game thread.

gb - It isn't that you insufficiently praised Quake, it is that you wrote 200 words seemingly describing what characterizes Quake, using mischaracterizations and negative terms. Maybe it is just a language difficulty, and you meant those things in a positive respect? Even if so, it doesn't match what other people experience when they play Quake, and what they miss when they play other games and find them lacking next to Quake. This isn't a cult of personality or an elite cadre of fanboys, we do accept the existence of differing opinions, but we expect that what is being opined on has some basis in the reality of the subject.

To put it in another perspective, one could suggest that a Doom3like is a slow moving first person shooter with an obvious plot arc and on-screen mouse UIs for game buttons, where monster spawns are tied to armor pickups and player choice is never a factor. Some of this may be true, but even the parts that are true are not an indicator of what makes the Doom3 experience, and a project which followed such wouldn't necessarily be a Doom3like. To suggest to Doom3 fans that these things encapsulate the experience and express it is both offensive, and ignorance. The same goes for Quake.

Func_Msgboard has more to do with Quake mapping rather than the Quake platform, the people here make maps for Quake because they like _Quake_, not idtech1. 
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