News | Forum | People | FAQ | Links | Search | Register | Log in
New Q1SP: FMB-bdg2
As close to being finished as it will ever be, the end is not as originally planned but it is still playable.

Only tested in Fitzquake. Some music switches missing in the last map so you will either put up with it, or not play it :)

Not all short-cuts bring reward, and if you play on hard AND find the runes, you will get a nominally different ending.

UPDATE: quaddicted mirror:
Yes! Something for the weekend! 
Pretty Good 
what I have played so far... then I fell into some lava and I suck at games. Those ogres in that area are a real bastard! 
Weekend is now safe! 
freefilehosting? Dude... 
Bloody Hell. 
Drink your Red Bull / espressos before this one. 
Do not play this if you are allergic to:

Death knights


Complex secrets

Insane progression

Getting a general butt-kicking

Repacking it for Quaddicted right now.

I moved the text files into the fmb_bdg2 directory. Renamed S_null.spr to s_null.spr for lunix.

What is fmb_bdg2/progs/Pak4.pak? That does not sound like it is in the right place? Should I delete it? 
Fuck You Lava 
Love the visuals in this map! Haven't got very far because I keep falling in lava :|

Gameplay so far has been tricky but fun. Something that wasn't so fun was having that shake effect happen while I was crossing a thin beam with lava on each side :P

Nice idea to have the music toggle buttons 
It looks as though I was trying to tidy things up at some time. I've just quickly run through the items in that Pak and cannot see anything that is required that isn't already in the progs folder.
I've also just deleted the Pak from my version and run through all three levels and did not have a problem, so delete please.

The architecture is gorgeous with loads of ceiling/wall supports and plenty of vista moments from windows. The large open caverns are beautifully bathed in red hot lava and the monsters are tough. I remember seeing so many of these areas in previous screenshots and it was awesome to finally fight my way through the map.

I do think the secrets in these maps are crazy hard. I don't understand why a GA would be in a secret, when the YA is a stones throw away! I found the first map confusing because there are monster types that can be killed and based on playing ID maps, are suppose to be immune to player damage. The buttons are really hard to find because there are loads of textures with full bright pixel problems. 
Gimme The Proper Link 
Mike: Aye Aye, Thanks! 
Mirror is up in about 10 minutes. 
Oh Thanks Spirit 
but thats map names are weird

end_____.bsp etc??? 
I think the slaughter room didn't work as intended... Here is demo of map1. Rather lengthy and slow play, warn you. 
added quaddicted mirror 
Screenshots !!!! 
... please :) 
A Simple Speedrun Of Map1 
but very pretty, and strangely old school, despite all the music, new monsters, effects etc.
But seriously, Shambler wasn't kidding.

Dark Souls of Quake? I don't know what that means. Impressive layout, brutal gameplay, great looks, impressive blend of old/new school stuff generally, deviously sneaky secrets!

As a player, I'm happy to say it was worth every second of your agony, Mike.

Thanks - this is a great way to go out! 
We've Come A Long Way, Babies 
Just played this for the first time! 
Could you please change the color of your name? It is almost unreadable and I always have to squint to make it out.

Sorry for offtopic! 
spricht mir aus der Seele.
change that color, Drew, please. 
Aw Man, Really? 
Crimson is my fave...
Does EVERYONE have trouble with that? 
Nope, I know it's you if I can't read it. :)

Just finished the second map and loved it. Much better than the first which I did not like that much. Also great music on this one, I disabled it on the first one. 
Agree With Spirit On All Points 
Especially "I know it's you if I can't read it" 
How's This SleepwalkR? 
Can you please change back the color of your name? Otherwise I'll confuse you with Spirit. 
When you get to map2 this happens:


(finally beat map1) 
Haha, Negke 
good one! 
I just tried to make mine look like negke's but func did let me. 
Spirit, I Like Mine 
...and just finished those maps.
Mr. Woodham, it�s a pity that this will be your
last words in Quake(hope not)
Tight battle it was, died nearly 30 times, and
never felt frustrated.
Pity it is. 
This should be posted on the forum too really, surprised it hasn't been already. 
rather nice set of levels, feels epic and with nice gameplay and exploration. 
Is This Officially The First Map Of 2013? 
The first Q1SP, yeah. 
Awesome! Will Play Now! 
For some reason I didn't check the news page and thought this was an old map that had been spam bot'd to the top of the forum. Wasn't until I clicked on this link in #tf that I found it. What a nice surprise! 
Finished Start 
was fun, but I swear I've played it before... has it been released before as another map?

I uploaded a demo, but fell in lava and died nearish to the end. Actually, I noclipped out of lava a couple of times because falling in lava really fucking sucks, and I'm a cry baby pussy. Other than the lava, it was quite easy on normal, but with a couple of surprises. Looking forward to map 2 :)

Here's that demo: 
one thing I didn't like was the gold key. Maybe I was just being lame, but it seemed as if it was possible to jump across to it quite easily from the shelf with the torch of death on it, but I kept getting snagged on something. I think it's best to make things clearly out of reach, or just allow the player to take shortcuts if they have the skills to do so. 
Good 2 Mins Of Fun! 
Ok ok took me a bit longer then that :) 
it is possible to get it from the shelf at the beginning actually. I didn't get to the point where I could use it, I died in the lava a little later on. 
Feels Epic 
Finally found some time to finish the second and third map. The amount of work that must of gone into these maps is amazing. The rockwork feels amazing in places and the variety of space and encounter design is top notch.

The death arena in the first map is cool, nicely done and when the music changed it just felt epic. I liked all of the music and even thou you offered the choice to turn it off, it stayed on!

My favourite has to be the second map, the climbing up and around the structure, crossing chasms of lava and that bridge! I still have a screenshot you posted of the YA bridge and the design is amazing. The use of secret locations in the second map felt better to me, I liked the idea of looking over ledges and wondering how places connect. The extra monsters on the intermission screen was a very nice touch.

Do you have plans to release the map/progs source files? 
Nice, But With Mixed Feelings 
I agree it's pretty epic. Strong 'overwhelming dungon' vibe, and it looks awesome, oozing with atmosphere.

While it's great visually, unfortunately I found it to be lacking in the gameplay department. The levels don't have much variety. I made the mistake of playing on hard skill which probably made this worse. For the most part the gameplay, especially in the second map, consists of grinding through hordes of hellknights, ogres, and more hellknights. And for a long time only with poor weaponry. This became very tedious after a while. And then the player gets strapped of his gear after each level so the whole grind starts awew in the next map.
More varied monster placement would've helped a great deal, with a couple of additional custom enemies perhaps. More fragbait inbetween, and possibly more powerup action or a new powerful weapon.

I like the interconnected layouts and the shortcut opportunities, although I felt a little bad when I used them once or twice - as if I had broken the map. But it's cool since it adds some exploratory feel to it as well as individual play experiences (provided one doesn't get lost).
A bunch of very nice ideas in the levels. Some really good secrets. The guardians.

On the technical side, there are a few shortcomings, signs of a rushed release. For example, no pak; the palette.lmp, I believe it's the gamma patch?, should've been left out; the bsp names didn't have to be this complicated - a simple onlyents compile would have solved the problem (we did explain it here).
Then, it would have been possible to optimize the maps for staying within standard limits without much hassle.

But nevermind. I mean, I know you were sick of it and just wanted to get it out - we've all been there at some point. It's pretty cool you managed to finish and eventually release this thing after all. Thank you. :) 
I Find It Hard To Believe 
That there are no screenshots!!! 
These are serious maps, not for the faint-hearted. A bit rough around the edges, and a few gameplay flaws, but I really like them:

Good stuff:
+ A lot of good gameplay on hard skill - solid, relentless, but usually fair.
+ Nice that you get all the weapons but they reset to maintain the challenge.
+ Fair use of Quoth monsters for a change.
+ Layout and progression is crazy, possibilities to take shortcuts and skip sections is really good - disorientating but adds to the interest AND replayability.
+ Good mix of epic designs and tighter interconnecting bits.
+ Very good secrets.

Bad stuff:
- Some lava bits far too easy to die in.
- A few gameplay traps too hard and inhibit first time playing.
- More health was needed in some areas.
- Had a slightly scrappy feel to some areas and some texture combinations.

A good swansong I think :) 
Another Story, Another Time, Another Place... 
Quick response:-

Some secrets are hard: if they we all easy they wouldn't be secrets, would they. Admittedly, two in This_Garlic were particularly hard: jumping through the red window, and shooting the imp blocking the way to the quad(or just jumping onto him). Not intuitive I agree.

Couldn't run the demo of the slaughter room problem; all the entities showed up but the brushwork was invisible? Maybe a Darkplaces problem but I only use Fitzquake.

On This Onion, you can jump to get the gold key early if you really want to - no deliberate snagging points there

Trigger_bastard vs impulse9 (I had to try to vary it a bit on such a big map)

No plans to release the source directly but the progs.dat can be decompiled (there's nothing in there that you guys can't program more efficiently than me but if there's something you want, just let me know)

There was no way the map could have been this big and stayed within all limits (just look at the terrain for a start)

Seems to be more + than - enjoyment, so I am happy. As long as one other person gets something out of it, I feel pretty smug :) 
By the way, your explosion sprites worked a treat. I used them at the Vermis death in This Onion (the second one, when it sinks belkow the lava is particularly effective).

I also used them when the Guardians explode although that doesn't work quite so well due to timing, which I never got quite right. 
Mike Woodham 
@Couldn't run the demo of the slaughter room problem

Yeh recorded in DP, the monsters stay on the upper bridge and dont drop down 
178 And The Rest 
If you jump up to the area that is behind the silver-key door before getting the silver key, the push triggers and monster jumps are turned off. If you then drop down into the arena, and activate the monster spawning, they cannot get down to the arena and you will have trouble killing them - you can do it from below but it is not as planned, and your sense of enjoyment and wonder will be diminished :(

Other than that, I also just noticed that Darkplaces does not do fog the same as FitzQ, so it doesn't look as pretty. And also, the 'dead' ogres are not placed correctly on the floor - they still work but don't look right. 
There was no way the map could have been this big and stayed within all limits (just look at the terrain for a start)

No doubt splitting the original map was the right thing to do. But what I meant by possible vanilla optimization is the exceeding of the edicts limit in the first map ("only" around 40 less required) and the lightmaps (65 instead of 64) in the third. 
What Red Window?? 
Also how the fuck do you get the GA at the start of map1, that drove me mad!! 
GA: shootable switch hard to spot from where you need to be although you can see it easily later on and can see the GA coming out of its cubby hole but you can't get to it from down there(bastard, eh?) 
*** SPOILERS *** 
Map 1 - GA : There is a book in the GA room with the word "shoot"! Took me forever to see it. A bit extreme for a GA.
Map 1 - Zombie pit (directly below MH on wooden beam) - No idea how the grate in the floor opens. no buttons, no clues.
Map 1 - RA on an alcove in main lava room, directly below starting area. No clues how the little door opens.

Map 2 - The broken red window is below the fancy wooden bridge over the chasm of lava. How you jump to that window is beyond me! Spent ages diving into lava and burning to a crisp.

My favourite secrets:
Map 1 - RL at beginning, totally amazing route, love it.
Map 1 - The extra supplies in the first button rooms (lots of dark alcoves on either side). The button even moves on skill level!?! The way the bars slide apart is a fantastic idea.
Map 1 - Thunderbolt and lightning very very frighting! Priceless! :)
Map 2 - YA under fancy wooden bridge, brilliant route
Map 2 - Gargoyle jump to Quad, awesome idea

Played all the maps a second time on Hard (Does anyone else play maps on all skill levels?) and there is a big difference on monster layout. Also feels like some monsters take more damage which feels wrong to me. IMHO health should be consist across skill levels. 
Through The Red Window, Jeffery 
This one is hard (for me anyway as I don't have good mouse skills). Firstly you have to spot that there is something different about the window. Then you have to think enough about it to waste a shell or spike on it. Then you seen the gap, and then you jump.

Two methods that I can do: one, straight onto the window cill; two, onto the parapet, then back off that and drop onto the arch's keystone, then onto the cill, then through the window. It leads to a short cut and you can sneak up on a couple of monsters.

Apologies for the crap hosting, should just click and open. I'll look for something better if more shots are needed. 
Amazing Stuff, Mike. 
I had not enjoyed playing a quake map like I did with this since at very last 3/4 years (no kidding, the game sorta grew stale on me).
Guess you got me back into the fold, so thanks a lot!

I ran twice through the sucka and found all secrets and man, were they fun!!!
I found them very "Painkillerish", which, in my book, is a good thing. Really rewards exploration.

I only have 2 minor gripes, both in the 2nd map:
1 - The first time I ran through it, I completely skipped half of it by accident, when the intermission screen came up I was tempted to reload, but did not want to disrupt the flow. It's great to have route choices and freedom, but maybe I would have liked more some hint pointing downstairs before exiting...

2- SPOILER: ...which leads us to the Pentagram secret: I found it a bit annoying having just one chance to get it, since the elevator does not come back down after being activated [the same as the GA atop the railing in some other map that I cannot remember now (1,2 or 3) , come to think of it]. That can be very easily missed.

More in general, I don't like maps that lock down and don't let you roam freely in the end to hunt secrets down, but that's just me...

@ sock:
The first GA is easily reached grenade jumping, even if one does not find the kosher "shoot me" book.

Just shoot the grate.

Try looking at the main structure pillars from the platform where the music switch is...

Jumping from the bridge overlooking the broken window is possible. You land on the sill and the keep on jumping and cursing until you're able to get inside... ;)

Thanks again for a true masterpiece, Mike. Sad to see you move to other pastures... 
Red Window. 
Ah, tried that and did it first go. Cool secret. So much detail in these secrets.

I like the few one-shot secrets, surprisingly. Just goes with the style of the maps. 
Zombie Grate 
@the silent, you have to shoot the hinge of the grate to make it drop, which sort of makes sense, but it was missing the visual language! Secrets ending in frustration don't feel good when complete. 
Ah, Yes... 
I did shoot a DS round, so I did not catch the fact that you had to shoot the hinge. Bullets spread did the trick...

Tbh, I think that I opened it first time by chance in the process of circle strafing ogres while DSing... 
SPOILER (Map 3): Finishing Without The Runes 
Once you have the gold key, make your way top of the tower (use RL if your way is locked). Jump at the roof of the final buildings whose door is the golden door. Quickly jump in front of the golden door and enter in before guardians attack kill you. If you get the pentagram before jumping down on the roof it will be a lot easier. 
If you play on Hard and find the runes, you get a small treat at the end of the map (don't expect too much!)

Two runes are visible but not easy to get to; two runes are hidden and require exploration. Some jumping is required but no trick jumps. 
Where;s My Treat Motherfucker?? 
Completed it once with 3 runes and a pent, and then again with 4 runes, I didn't get any treats, I want chocolate or something... 
I am SO sorry, I hadn't spotted the "Chocolate bonus fell out of level at 0,0,0" error. I guess that's my mapping career well and truly over then :( 
Is where this joint really shines.

Epic. (Death Knights by the dozen in narrow corridors armed only with shotgun suck Mean Bananas, though).

Did not find any difference (apart from the obvious) in map 3. Played on Hard, got all secrets, got all runes... What would the "nominally different ending" be? 
Where The Hell Is Thr Fourth Rune? 
htH x 
If It's Not There 
try down in the big lava cave. 
Cant Find Four Runes 
got the one in the lava cave so obviously missing some other one.

Anyhow, decided to not look anymore for it and just got the pent secret to get past the guardians. Anticlimactic end with the 4 ogres behind the door but everything up until then I really really liked.

Gameplay was occasionally more of a grind than fun but it wasnt as relentless as in some of tronyn's maps and so oyu had plenty of downtime to admire the scenery and soak it all in.

Really classy stuff. 
Same Story, Different Ending... 
The difference on hard is that if you get the 4 runes, you get the 'DKnight's tribute' at the exit. They don't appear in the easier skill levels and are missing if you get the Pent in Hard mode. (There is also one other way that you get the tribute without the runes but that was a result of never finishing the map and although I should take complete responsibility for that error, I have decided instead to blame my dead pet spider)

That's why I said nominally different. But of course if you only played on hard AND got the runes first time, you wouldn't see even a nominal difference, would you. Could be a reason to play it again on wimp mode jut to see what the plebs see (snigger, snigger). 
Had a lot of fun playing these. Got my ass handed to me a lot at various stages, but I just got used to saving a lot (I'm a bit out of practice with quake too).

Can see a few ways in which this isn't really "finished", but what the hell, I still had a great time. Thanks for getting this out!

Going to have to play again now I know roughly speaking what's going on... 
I just watched Than's demo, which was great until he died.

I am archiving all my Quake stuff (for posterity, you understand) and would love to see any more demos that anyone made of any of the BDG2 maps. Watching someone else play my maps is such great fun: I'm shouting at the screen, "you walked past that secret", "watch your back here", "noooo, don't go in there yet you haven't got enough ammo to survive".

And I also marvel at the mouse and jumping skills, which I just never mastered, and the different ways that players attack things. Anyway, if anyone has got any 'ego boosts' for me I would be grateful. 

Not first runs by a long way but the maps are confusing enough (in a good way) that they might as well be. I did try to recreate some of the chaos and nonsense of my first runs, especially in maps 1 and 2 where I try pretty hard to break the progression.

1 + 1a - first map, think I died in lava.

2 + abcd - second map, I really fucked the progression in this one AND died in lava.

3 _ a + a_alt - third map, with a choice of endings. 
I really appreciate the time and trouble you have taken.

I have only watched the first one but from my point of view it was brilliant. You took all sorts of short cuts and although the Slaughter Room didn't work as planned, it was still good to watch. And the map still stood up well even though you were hitting triggers at the wrong time and in the wrong order.

I am sorry you fell in the lava right near the end; I think the Vermis was just about to die but it meant you missed my explosions there, and I had spent a lot of time on those trying to get the timing right.

I will watch the rest soon and give you a response.

Thanks again. 
I will definitely record a demo this weekend. After all, you deserve as much love as Sock has been getting lately :) 
Excellent news, thanks. 
Worked through them; it was quite intense in places and they were great fun to watch. I could almost hear you saying to yourself sometimes, "I know I am supposed to go that way but I'm going THIS way". That made me smile.

And some of the jumping skills were very impressive. I had placed a red armour in a position that you could see early but would not get until later. But oh no, Shambler wanted it early and jumping off two walls managed to get it.

There was several hundred man-hours work in the maps but seeing these demos makes it all worthwhile. Once again, thanks for taking time out. 
Tried Again 
to complete the map, I'm finding it way too hard to do. I got fairly far but I was god mode-ing through and I accidently switched off god mode and died immediately.
For some reason I found I had way more grenades than shells/nails, I was always stocked.

The map is sexy as heck but I personally didn't enjoy the binary nature of the map. Way too many insta-death scenarios, not enough ammo. :-/ 
Getting the rl secret at the start of map 1 makes it way too easy imho. If I get bored at work next week I'll try to record a demo or two :) 
still trying to record a demo for mr. woodham, but my skills are too limited i think.
those fuckin fuckers with ammo. ..
Glad you liked them. Sorry I didn't record first runs, but the amount of dicking around I did was probably fairly similar.

The whole "going the wrong way" thing was one of the cool parts of the maps. When I first played them I was trying to get the YA and dropped down into the passage into the lava pit, I had no idea if I'd broken it or what, and just kept was good fun that way.

I think I know the RA you mean, that was definitely speedrunner-style dicking around, I broke it pretty well getting the gold key and going to the exit there lol! I have no idea how I survived until the shambler thing before the MH alcove.... 
Holy Suffering Fuck 
I'm getting killed by dogs. 
By Which I Mean 
This is hardcore attrition gameplay.

Just realised after all my bellyaching I didn't play the release... 
To Cool 
I don't know if you are still reading this post but I just played this and wow! I'm sure glad you released it. It would sure be nice to see that other half 
Glad that you're enjoying it - well I think you are :) 
I still pop-in every now and then.

I wonder if you downloaded the latest version: FMB-BDG was the release from a few years ago, which is just the This Onion map. FMB-BDG2 is the 3 map pack released this year This Onion, This Garlic and That Shallot (it's was supposed to be a play on words, you see).

So unfortnuately, that's your lot; there is no more to come :( 
Let me explain - I was playing terribly yesterday because I was a bit drunk. I was at a restaurant and we ordered starters etc. I had a Peruvian Pisco Sour:

We'd been sat there for forty minutes after a small starter (and my second sour, which meant I'd had about a pint of the stuff on an empty stomach) when one of the chefs was stretchered out and we were informed that due to a fight in the kitchen they were having to close.

Anyway, back to the maps;

I got my ass handed to me replaying This Onion - I was staggering a lot and not doing the precise footwork needed in the lava areas with the Lavamen.

This Garlic I just finished and it was murder. Weaponstrip and HK start?! I also missed the NG and so suffered through the level until getting over halfway through. It seems the only armour is from secrets as well, and I wasn't having much luck finding them. Some of geometry is hard to fight in as well - I kept on bumping my head on low ceilings or getting stuck on wall details.

But I can tell with a bit more patience (and sobriety) this will be a much more forgiving map.

Just started That Shallot and finding it much more friendly, having a lot of fun with it so far. The balance feels superior to This Garlic - shotgun start (wow the Quake guy has butterfingers!) versus regular knights and not HKs is much better. The brushwork here is very nice as well - the caves look great.

Will be replaying the whole thing again once I finish to do it justice.

Thanks for the release! 
I Was Gonna Say 
I love this map, but it's a tough one for demos, in that it is quite difficult, with rather steep spikes, and a general war of attrition style gameplay elsewhere. 
Re: Still Poppin In 
Well Mike let me tell you. I did play the 3 map pack. I thought I read you were thinking of adding more to it. Anyway great textures-great theme-great everything. I can't believe the imagination some of you mappers have. I was discussing it with my son and he said quake 1 must be a guide line or gateway to future mappers. A college requirement. Whatever it is I hope you guys keep making great maps. 
Hope my comments didn't sound too negative - this is still an instant classic. 
The fact that you're playing it and going back for more is good enough for me.

The loss of weapons between maps was just me thinking that they could be played as stand alone maps. But I suppose I could have made the ammo more sparse and left the weapons in. It's just that I felt the maps were a bit on the large size and that people may not have wanted to play all three together, especially as I wanted Hard to be a bit of challenge.

It surprises me that so many players seem to start on Hard, whereas I used to play Quake on Normal skill and then move to Hard for
a second play if I had enjoyed the map first time around. 
2nd run of the first map:

What you didn't get to see:

Me dying twice right off the bat -- hiding that first armor in a secret was plain mean -- me wandering around aimlessly looking for paths to secret items sitting in plain view, and me Daz-derping into the lava more than just a couple of times ;)

More to come!!! 
Great fun, well done.

I love the way you are looking around all the time: is that a secret panel, can I jump on to that ledge, etc. I think the "secret door opens near some stairs" foxed you because you saw the secret switch before you saw the right staircase. You also had the right idea for the MH secret but the jump has to be 'pixel perfect' (I think you can rocket-jump up to that opening as well)

You also highlighted at least two flaws - fullbrites in a ceiling texture that I missed that you clearly thought was a secret of some kind; and a 'seam' in some brickwork where the texture was mis-aligned. Oh, and the end cut-scene didn't work correctly where a rock falls from the cave ceiling and the bridge collapses into the lava - you may have ended the demo before that showed up but I am not sure.

Thank you for taking the trouble; I'll watch out for demo number 2 :) 
And one thing I forgot to mention - I noticed that one time you accidentally backed onto a music switch and turned the music off, but then went back and switched it on again. Oooooh, thank you, thank you, thank you. 
This was a very challenging mini-episode. Close-quarters combat in the second map was a nice switch from the other, more open maps. Figuring out the guardian statue puzzle for the end was pretty challenging too; I found only two runes, had no idea where to look for the rest but luckily I found that pentagram. However, I rocketjumped to get there because some gates had come down so I'm not sure if this was the "official" way of doing it. I also had to cheat once, in the last map: That platform that goes up when you step on it, surrounded by lava, I assume I was supposed to jump to the ledges where the knights were but I jumped back to the stairwell so I got stuck. The way I see it, this was a design faux pas as you're not supposed to make it so that the player can get permanently stuck.

Anyway, here's a demo of the entire thing, in eight parts. I didn't die that often really, mostly had trouble with the running-vagina type monsters (their projectiles were faster than I remembered) and those gatekeeping gargoyles: 
Just watched the first two; really nice. Thanks.

Once again I noticed that the end cut-scene didn't work. Actually, it's not a cut-scene as such, it's the end camera view that all maps can have but I have things going on in the map. Perhaps there is something about the demo recording mode that bypasses the final camera?

I am not sure about the platform problem you mention. I am not aware of anywhere you can actually get stuck, even though it may be difficult. For example, in the second map near the beginning, if you don't get across the bridge before it withdraws, you can jump on the beams and if you hug the walls the pendulums can't get you.

But I'll watch the rest of the demos and see if I can work out the issue. 
Yup, a design faux pas! Mind you, I was surprised that such a skilled Quaker as yourself didn't use a grenade jump ;)

One missing rune is by the giant imp statue that overlooks the large cave (in plain sight), and the other is behind the "must be hiding something" door that you can get to from the roof that leads to the Pent (drop down behind the door). You could also clamber along the top of the beams that also provides access to the Quad. When you get all four there is a cut-scene that shows the Guardians exploding, meaning that you can get to the GK door without needing the Pent.

Really enjoyed watching the demos, so a big thanks for sticking at it. 
1st run of the second map in 4 parts:

What you do get to see:

More derping into lava and onto window sills. Getting good and confused at the gold/silver key/door setup and doing some un-necessary backtracking. Shooting secrets that I eventually figure out.

I enjoy the music in these maps. It really adds to the ambience :)

Just one more to go... 
Another great demo.

And another flaw. I had switches to drop the barriers to the lavamen area should you double back from certain areas but not by your particular route. Yes, your 'player stuck' message was correct (although you could have rocket jumped up to the window if you had backed into the cave area, and that would have got you back to where the silver key was).

Perhaps I was being a little too clever in trying to give the areas some degree of 'searchability'. 
"Perhaps there is something about the demo recording mode that bypasses the final camera?"

Yeah probably because I did see the cutscene so no worries.

"Mind you, I was surprised that such a skilled Quaker as yourself didn't use a grenade jump"

Yeah somehow I completely forgot about even having the weapon at that point. 
Sorry didn't do a demo, it'd be long anyway, over 2 hours.

Great maps though. In the first I too skipped the nailgun route, it wasn't till I noclipped back through the level to see what I missed. No biggy since you lose the weapons anyway.

I know everyone was going on about how hard it was, and I'm no expert player, but I didn't find it that hard. At the end of each level I usually had full rockets and nails. The end battle with those four green buggers I took out with the RL and MH, so I still had the Pent and Quad left (felt wasted on 4 ogres). So maybe it's quite a bit harder on hard compared to medium (I played on med).

I'm useless at secrets, I found maybe 2-3 per level. I did happen to stumble upon all the runes though, so I was satisfied about that. Well, one of them I just rocket jumped up to.

Good to see quoth enemies not overused, though I probably would have ramped up the gameplay with more green bastards, shamblers, scrags. There were enough ogres and knights to sink a ship, it was kind of expected everytime you turn a new corner, there'll be an ogre waiting. But that does give it a good old skool feel.

In fact the whole three felt very old skool.

90% of it I used the ssg, only time I ran out of shells was early in the first level, but I still had sng and gl.

I liked the third level the best, especially the flooding part, and overlooking level 1. Awesome stuff.

Was this made of scraps or completely your own creation Mike? Some parts like the towers, and textures, reminded me a bit of Tronyn's style.

Oh and i'm so glad you didn't leave these as base! I think they would have felt too bland as base maps, base needs quite a bit of detailing to look good.

My favourite part was the little cavern with a dark path leading upwards, I think map2, and a dozen knights are at the top. That little trail look fantastic. Being top of the castle in map1 was also great. 
No scraps were used in the making of the three levels; they were actually one map originally, and all my own work (for a change). Obviously, some of the monsters were taken from existing mods, and I did get help on some qc issues from the guys here on more than one occasion.

Once I realised that one map was too big, I split them into two, and then into three.

I spent some time creating player 'vistas'. These were through the window, or across the cavern type scenes; areas that the player would get to look at from different angles or heights, and at different times during play.

I remember a discussion here a few years back where I bemoaned published screenshots that the player would never get to see in normal play. This set of maps were 'designed' to ensure that the player was always able to see the best vistas without having to resort to no-clipping e.g. being able to see the castle in the final map from quite early in the first map, or viewing the wooden bridge from above in the second map, and seeing the remains of the fist map from the third map, and so on.

Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for letting me know. 
Finally got around to play this. Truly fantastic stuff! Great architecture throughout with awesome caves. I liked the monster use overall. I feel like lighting could have been a little better, especially in some pitch-black areas near lava which is kind of weird. I did not find the secrets to be very tough to find (some were fiendish though, the Secret Hunter one comes to mind) and I managed to find all four runes in the final map.

Sorry I didn't do a demo but I managed to get stuck in the final map, having to noclip. It happens in the room with the switch to the "face in the stairs". If you enter the next room with the Death Knights, the door closes behind you. If you're fast enough you can come back to the previous room and you're stuck. 
The problem of being on the wrong side of the door never arose in testing as I am clearly too slow. I know that some players (most?) play with 'run' on all the time, so perhaps that makes it possible to get back through the door.

The Ogres were there to make you back out and once they were out of the way I expected people just to continue in and set of the Death Knights.

That apart, it seems you enjoyed it so I am happy, thanks. 
Gone But Not Forgotten... 
Two demos with a slight gap in-between -- I accidentally overwrote the second one but you are only missing me derping into the lava yet again ;)

Overall, I enjoyed these maps. They felt a bit like Something Wicked but with more emphasis on horizontal vs. vertical exploration. The architecture and texturing were good throughout with just a few slightly bland areas. The new monsters and progs were welcome but could have been used a little more consistently through all three maps. On normal, the finale was pants but I look forward to replaying the whole thing on hard and getting a much happier ending :) Cheers, Mike!

P.S. Don't be a stranger... 
Really enjoyed watching the demos; well done, and thanks for posting them.

(As you can see, I do pop in every now and then. Best regards to everyone) 
Post A Reply:
Website copyright © 2002-2018 John Fitzgibbons. All posts are copyright their respective authors.