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Updated Q1SP MOD - Arcane Dimensions 1.7.1 *PATCHED*
Sock has been beavering away behind the scenes to get a fully updated tweaked fixed and finalised version of AD. So here it is. One point SEVEN.

Download (220mb):

V1.7.1 Patch (see recent post below):


Recommended Quakespasm 0.93:

Past versions etc:

In his own words:
"The AD zip file is getting a bit big and inconvenient to download and I think its time to start splitting stuff off into separate files. The AD map source files are not needed or viewed much and if anyone wants to see them, just drop me an email request.

This download contains all the previous maps, some new extra code and features, lots of bug fixes, some new mapper features (check documentation) and as a final bonus, a couple of extra maps hidden away in the main map hubs, good hunting!"

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Not Necessarily Back With More AD 
But yeah, let's hope that he uses this toolset now that it's done. 
+1 Sleepwalkr 
I think wed all be wise to respect whatever choice sock makes in regards to AD. His reasoning likely extends far beyond this thread. Its in more than a polished enough state to call final and any changes can be taken on by the new wave of mappers/content developers.

Best of luck to Sock on all his creative ventures. Though, he doesnt really need "luck".

Now, everyone, GO MAP. 
I'm A Sock Fanboy 
... and it only gets worse on every release. 
Sock Quitting Quake... 
... d�j� vu all over again.

The king is dead, long live the king. 
Buncha Cents 

I was sceptical of the projectile shotguns at first, and still not sure changing them was really necessary, but one gets used to them and it works. It's even admittedly somewhat satisfying to kill enemies with the pellets, because of the visual feedback and 'having hit' through slight movement prediction. It feels hitting things is slightly more difficult now with the delay - at least it seems I've missed way more shots than I would have with hitscan, as if the monsters were lucky to zig-zac their way through my attacks.
The triple-barreled shotgun kicks ass. An actual improvement over the normal one, and good thing the maximum shell count is increased.

The plasma gun, like Shambler put it, just works, gets the job done. I can't decide whether it's an improvement over the LG and occasionally I would have prefered to be able to switch back to the LG as the plasma felt less powerful (possibly caused by restistances) and dangerous to my self at point blank range. At least it allows shooting under water (right?).

Axes are good, not as useless as the stock axe, and in many cases the axe upgrade is found quickly to make it suitable tool for emergencies.


The new and modified monsters are all very well designed and reasonably balanced. Some seem to have oddly little health while others have surprisingly much within their context (e.g. normal knights vs. crossbow guys). But it works out in the end, no Quoth-grade ammo sponges. Even the vorelings, although I wouldn't have minded if they had had even less.

Z-aware ogres are a bit of a mixed bag. Generally, I think removing their grenade limitations is good and adds to the gameplay. At the same time, the z-awareness can make it quite unfair for the player occasionally. Seems to be as if at short ranges the grenades are very fast and harder to dodge. Glad they have a range limit, too.
Zombies, on the other hand, are still unable to attack vertically. Maybe it's for the best, though.

One thing that bothers me a little is how some of the modified monster models, especially hell knight and ogres, are so thin in their posture compared to the originals.
Knights and zombie knight models, while being good overall, could've used a little touch-up perhaps. Something about them feels wonky to me, maybe because they are so round now?
Same with the updated shambler model. He has been working out obviously, but his death animation is a bit of a diva move...

The monster spawners are tricky. They add tension to the gameplay and a further component of target priorization which is good. However, mappers must be careful not to let this get out of hand. YES, YOU, IONOUS! :) Depending on the situation, this can cause ammo shortages. Most maps handle it well, or at least it worked out for me in most cases, secrets and respawning items etc.

The scrag queen is cool if not slightly overpowered. Or maybe it only felt that way, because the arena in Zendar is fairly small and dead-endy in terms of cover with regards to the additional mobs. You should have added the scrag boss from Travail as well -> scrag kind and queen in a scrag kingdom map with a permanent flight powerup. Hmm, looks like there's now way around AD 2.0 now!

The resistances to certain weapons didn't really look clearly communicated to me. There's mention of particles indicating resistance somewhere here, but during the game I didn't recognize what does what. The only obvious thing is grenades bouncing off certain enemies and rockets seemingly flying through scrags. Not sure I like the latter in particular. While in theory a system like this can add some flavor to the gameplay, I think in Quake, at least for me and in this mod, it's largely irrelevant as I just keep shooting until the monsters are dead unless it's clear they don't take any kind of damage from the current weapon.


I had some thoughts on each map, but can't really recall. Let me just repeat what other have probably mentioned and say the maps are amazing. Great detail, many secrets, so much to explore. The rune meta game is a nice touch. Ever so slightly intransparent, but rewarding if completed with a stunning credit map.

Newschool stuff like skyboxes, fog, colored lighting, alpha textures and (excessive) particles was used to great effect. Made things look fresh and modern, yet still sufficiently Quakey. As far as I can tell the new map functions add a lot of potential for unique designs and gameplay/story/event opportunities, much of these probably yet to be explored. 
Fun Fact 
When playing ad_lavatomb, I caught myself thinking "this would look a lot better with colored lighting". In its current state, the level is fairly bright and mostly grey/white. Imagine how it'd look with a more dark and gloomy style and walls tinted in subtle color by candles, flames and flowing runes...
Clear indication how much the rest of the MOD has spoilt me! 
I reported the same thing in the past, but I was told that the level does have colored lighting.

I dunno. No matter how hard I squint, I can't see it. I'd love to take a look at the saturation values. Most likely, the person who told me that was mislead by the occasional use of fake tint on the textures themselves (typically near lava). 
Lavatomb Has A 5MB .lit File 
It's not even funny how much better it looks without awful DKT3 textures repeated like wallpaper... 
Public Service Announcement 
I am the person formerly active in this community as goldenboy.

Post #270 was not written by me.

Thankfully a friend e-mailed me about this, otherwise I wouldn't even have known that someone abused my old nick for fakenicking and trolling.

I don't post from proxy servers. I have not been active in the Quake community for a long time now.

Get your wits together, you have been trolled. Probably someone who has some undying beef with me.

For the record, I think your mod is cool, Sock. 
Public Service Announcement 
I am the person formerly active here as goldenboy.

Post #293 was not written by me.

At least this time the troll didn't use my nick. Please refer to my more detailed answer here:

In short, someone is fakenicking and shitposting, using my old nick and who knows how many others.

Thanks to the people who alerted me to this. 
Yeah I need to reiterate how much I'm liking the TBS in this, it no longer feels like shells are for easy enemies or saving nails / rockets / cells, it feels like the TBS is a primary choice in it's own right. 
Well Then. 
* Changed all monsters to use same sound channel for pain/death sounds
* Added spawnflags option to monster_golem for melee/stomp version only
* Added special gib sound for stone enemies (just a pile of rubble)
* Changed infighting formula (ai_combat.qc) to be closer to id setup
* Changed icegolem boss to ignore damage before trigger wakeup
* Fixed compiler error in mon_bossicegolem.qc function iceg_tranB13
* Fixed monster_shalrath not removing voreball attachment when in pain 
what will happen with ad_sepulcher? 
unfortunatelly it's canceled 
Thats Rather Unfortunate 
No Ad_sepulcher ??? :-( 
That's truly unfortunate to looked like it was well on its way...

Maybe GiftMacher has plans to finish it as a separate release? This was originally his e1m3 remake map right? 
Seems Like The Drama Got To Him. 
That really is a shame. I was looking forward to playing that map. 
Bonus points go to ad_magna for utilizing pos1 in breakables to manipulate the particle colors. 
Unofficial Fan Patch 1 
Download and extract to your AD 1.5 folder

* Fixed misc bugs and inconveniences in ad_chapters
* Added new map (ad_e1m3) to the MOD

Call me whatever the fuck you want. 
It's a (perfectly playable) beta of ad_e1m3 from April this year that was previously posted in Screenshots & Betas. If G1ftmacher will want to use a newer version I will be happy to repack and resubmit. 
Thanks OTP 
inconveniences in ad_chapters

This re-introduces the issue to get stuck behind the torch on the right side of the entrance to the lost swamp lands. 
The source file of current state was released, I'm sure someone...ahem...would be willing to tweak it and finish it and code anything bonus that is used. 
unfortunatelly it's canceled

Is that the official line then? 
in regards to ad_sepulcher sock said this on twitter: 
If we could get the monsters that were going to come with it at least, that'd be a nice treat. Or perhaps those are what's holding it up.

My poor, poor mangled .fgd file... 
Sock gets trolled, trolls back. Simple as that. 
what monsters? 
Sock clearly says there, it is maybe possible to have it in a next year, everything good requires some time, before it actually happens. 
Ah ok, well that sounds pretty normal. Let's just chill out and check the status again sometime next year. 
Playing Through Azad In Forty Minutes 
Ionous yeah, cool playthrough, thx man!



You have to gib the marine body with the Axe to proceed. The Shadow Axe that is.

It gibs dead bodies which is the coolest thing since sliced bread in plastic bags.

Still, the map could be considered broken with such a weird setup to proceed/trigger the final battle.

Play another map instead! 
Onetruepurple, That Is Not Sepulcher! 
It bears very little or no resemblance to the map being discussed here (except the name of course). It was an attempt by me to remix e1m3, it was picked up by the ad team and has since undergone massive reconstruction and iteration. 
I'm aware of that - I did change the appropiate trigger_multiple in the start map to reflect that it's ad_e1m3 and not ad_sepulcher.

Personally I believe that it's an excellent attempt at an e1m3 remix that even can stand on its own even in beta form. (Of course you may disagree.) Part of the reason I posted it here was because in the event that the final version is never released, it's definitely worth playing.

Also because as is evident from all the screnshots, the reconstruction and iteration was indeed massive, and I fear that the "remix elegance" (if that is even a term) of this version may be lost in translation.

If you want me to pull this off Quaketastic then give me the word. 
No Worries 
I just wanted to clarify, sepulcher is not e1m3, it's a new place! I would be better off making a new attempt at e1m3, many lessons learned since April. 
Ad_azad Broken ? 
I found two bugs in the map ad_azad (yes, I downloaded the latest version from the update above) :

There's a hole on the ground, next to an entrance at the end of a cave corridor, in which I could fall in. I then get stuck in that hole.

The major bug happens at the end, after I enter that big room with columns, and a transparent tube protecting a pentagram. Nothing happens and I get stuck in that room. All doors are locked. Had to use noclip to get out, but can't find the exit. 
Barnak, in regards to the final "bug" i believe you need to gib the body on the ground with the Shadow Axe. 
Ah yep, it worked, thanks ! But this was disgusting ! ;-)

Then I'm stuck again. One last door is still closed, and dunno what to do next.

Fantastic level, by the way. :-) 
Good Read, Thanks! 
Nice Interview! 
Reading That Makes You Feel Pround, Even Through You Wasn't Part Of It 
Thank you all for sharing this project and all of its content. 
Reading that sock uses batch files to run his compilers was a nice treat. I do the same - not sure why, it's just a habit I settled into when I first started mapping. 
Golem Crashing QS 
I hope this wasn't because of my "request guys. Sorry if it was...

I was working on a storyboard level and had that happen. It reproduces pretty easily, for me.

Oh btw, Arcane Dimensions is awesome <3 We might have some preview wip screenies :) 
#374 Cont. 
This is the issue in DP's console

Is there a problem with "blockudeath"(self.think)? I mean that's where it stops each time?

I searched through the .qc but aside from the obvious typo or something easily recognizable I'm limited right now to picking up on what the problem is.

Also happened at Gotshun's so it's not just my PC. 
For The Melee Only Golem 
Could be because th_pain is never assigned. 
Here Is Something To Try 
Set the melee only spawnflag but also set the statue spawnflag. If no error occurs, then it is definitely because it doesn't set th_pain. The golem_wakefinished function sets th_pain for you after the statue wakes. 
That's how I am getting this error. I start with those spanwflags(melee only + statue) set!

I think it is when he goes for the "punch" animation that it occurs. Also, maybe, I'm not positive on this, in godmode it doesn't happen?

I'll try one of the AD maps and see if it is specific to ME! Hindsight, I should have did that to begin with :( 
AD 1.5.2 
I'll take a look at the golem crash later when I have some time. In the mean time, are there any other known bugs anyone has found. I don't think Sock or the other mod members would mind if I do an updated code patch for any other loose ends.

(DISCLAIMER: I operate on the principle of improving what is open source for the benefit of the mod community. Any bugs that I claim to fix or any features added are soley the whim of Qmaster and in no way reflect the mod authors intention or approval unless specifically stated by one of the official members. I only offer services purely because Sock has stated he is no longer updating the mod (why would he, maintaining a mod is a lot of work, especially when so many people keep throwing out feature requests (Yes, I may have been one of those people, at least I know how to implement them ;) .))) 
One thing that would be great is that all you AD modders would gather together to implement your stuff into a "main trunk" mod instead of each being a separate fork of the original AD... 
This Is Turning Into Quite An Early Christmas Present! 
I've just finished Leptis Magna with only 1 secret left to find and all but 2 kills on normal -- there are 2 gargoyles that won't wake up. Epic awesomeness! Looking forward to Terror Fuma next, then MFX's and Sock's remixes. Cheers! 
there are 2 gargoyles that won't wake up

They wake up when you get one secret. 
In the mean time, are there any other known bugs anyone has found.

Single-shot weapons (like SSG) have been broken for a very long time. Symptoms: if you release the trigger at the wrong time, the weapon's animation will loop again without actually firing; during continuous shooting the muzzle flash frame comes too early.

My fix redone for 1.5:

Disclaimer redux: I dunno if it will break your mod or blow your house up. The fix Works For Me(TM), but it's probably deficient in some way, because I have little experience with QC or programming in general.

What it does is it steers the animation to the idle frame and makes it stay there, unless the player keeps shooting. Or something. I already forgot. 
Elusive Secrets 
To those struggling to find final secrets on various maps even with noclip, here's a last-resort solution: boot up the source map in JACK, pull up the entity report in the map menu and filter the entities by class to "trigger_secret". Then you can go down the lines and hit "Go to" on each one to center yourself on the trigger in the 3D view and see if the surrounding area is one you've been to before. You can narrow it down that way. 
Wasn't logged in. I feel obligated to claim responsibility for my work-around. Please send your e-donuts to me via the teleportation station at Metal Monstrosity. 
Triple Posts 
Speaking of Metal Monstrosity, I downloaded and played the original today before I realized AD 1.5 contained a remixed version. I thoroughly enjoyed the original, though ledge-crawling for secrets was tedious and dodging Bob-fire above the void was stressful to say the least. What's new in the remixed version? 
Better flow overall, just a much smoother and more satisfying experience with better secret-finding, and it greatly benefits from AD's expanded base roster. Though if you don't like fighting over voids that hasn't changed. 
I like the updated azad, BTW. 
This could be useful, thanks. Only in JACK or does TB have a similar feature? 
I could be wrong, but I think only VHE derivatives had an entity report feature. 
Stage Dive Left 
Sock gets trolled
Indeed I did, last time I listen to proxy server trolls! :P

I am the person formerly active in this community as goldenboy. Post #270 was not written by me
I am sorry for the confusion, I did find it strange how you were so angry with me, sorry for accusing you. Lesson learned, always ignore proxy server people, they are a waste of space!

what will happen with ad_sepulcher?
I plan to finish the map next year and release it as something separate using the devkit.

If we could get the monsters that were going to come with it at least
There are only two monsters reserved for the map, boil and boglord. Really want to save them for the map, as the new monsters have special setups and uses.

I don't think Sock or the other mod members would mind if I do an updated code patch for any other loose ends
I am sorry to be the Destroyer of Dreams here, but I would prefer no community patches for AD. The MOD is finished, lets all move on to the devkit and start creating new and different MODs!

Arcane Dimensions was a crazy long two year project and now its time to move on (for everyone). If anyone wants to create more AD style content then please use the devkit! :) 
No problem.

You heard the man

GO MAP! And have a Merry Christmas! 
Bah Humb.. 
Terror Fuma was a great one ... A crazy bastardized base level. Couldn't find my way up top though... might give it another go. 
I do have 2 maps that were about half-finished for AD... I am hoping they will see the light of day eventually. :)

It's a shame that Quake has a directory requirement for mods. I like the named .pak thing that Preach made for Quoth, it's a super neat way of keeping your files under control :) 
what will happen with ad_sepulcher?
I plan to finish the map next year and release it as something separate using the devkit.

Nice one sock, at least another cool map will see light of day. 
Pak Management 
It's a shame that Quake has a directory requirement for mods. I like the named .pak thing that Preach made for Quoth, it's a super neat way of keeping your files under control :)

In the past I suggested the idea that engines could support multiple mod directories. The idea was that someone releases a map pack, let's call it "Empires", which requires AD. You'd install the new map pack into a mod directory called "empires", then run the engine with a new command line like like "-games ad,empires". The new engine feature would mean that the game searches three directories in order, first empires, then ad, then the default id1. Nobody took it up though, although some engines do have the -quoth switch which does this as a special case for Quoth.

If you want to DIY switching map packs with the -game command, here's one way that works with all engines. Make a clean install of Quake into a new directory, then install the AD content into the ID1 directory of that install. The point is to set it up so that AD runs from this installation without any -game command line switches. You can then install new maps in their own mod directory, and switch between them using the -game command.

Bonus commentary: The pak files thing was partially a way to achieve this idea without needing engine support. It was also a way for me to test a clean version of 2.2 with custom content, without having any loose files in the directory - it stopped me forgetting to pack vital things because they were elsewhere on my path. If the idea was popular I thought engines might also add some kind of console command that could load a named pak on the fly - but seeing the download stats for the paks the effort would not be justified. 
I Usually... 
Just unpack everything. 
@preach - Multigame Dir Is Sloppy, Fragile And Bad Design 
Nobody took it up though

The multi-gamedir concept is an extraordinarily sloppy concept and requires someone to be unfamiliar with the Quake precache system, unfamiliar with what Carmack did in Quake 2 and Quake 3 and what Value did with Half-Life and what Zoid did with Quakeworld for downloading.

The Quake precache system, including the QuakeC part is hostile to the idea of this concept. So is the demo system. Where is the information in QuakeC that indicates the source of a file? Or in demo playback.

The idea only sounds great to someone who isn't thinking about co-op, doesn't ever use an engine that supports map/model download and doesn't ever do multiplayer.

Have you ever connected to a DarkPlaces or Quakeworld coop server and watched it download the maps and models and then you play?

Is your plan to break that type of functionality?

Furthermore, how many mods ever reach a completion state to be trustable for multi-gamedir?

Answer: Not even Quoth.

Quoth updates frequently alter map author's maps in ways not necessarily wanted by the authors of the maps (I believe Negke and RickyT23 are examples. I had a complaint about a behavioral change that affects Warpspasm).

So hipnotic and rogue are "safe", but in large part because they have been undeveloped for 20 years.

Quoth has largely been safe because there were 6 years between the update in 2008 and the one 2014.

Furthermore, the Quake Injector doesn't support it and many people depend on it to play maps.

And even if it did, it introduces an extremely fragile and spaghetti-like relationship between mods. Ask any who has tried to use multiple content replacement paks in DarkPlaces how easy it is figure it out when things go very badly.

Perhaps gamedir has a brushmodel and a replacement texture for it, perhaps gamedir b has a brushmodel and no replacement texture for it. You will get the lovely combination of the a model getting a wrong replacement texture being used. This is just a trivial example.

Add to that!


FitzQuake 0.85 introduced physics being affected by model dimensions. The actual gameplay of a mod can change if the wrong model or even a different model is used.

Multi-gamedir is a huge attack on:

1) Compatibility
2) Predictability
3) Author's intent
4) The engine being able to accurate assess exactly what the required content is
5) Communicating that to the client.
6) Introduces a whole new level of fragility where mods are now co-dependent and can break one another with the slightly change.

A few years ago you were the one with a creative comparison of numerous DarkPlaces incompatibilities and comparing it to Internet Explorer 6. It caused some changes to DarkPlaces to occcur to at least be more predictable and far less mod breaking in the default behavior.

But what you are suggesting is even worse.

You aren't making this terrible suggestion on purpose, I know ...

But rather you are making this terrible suggestion from a lack of diversity --- the tragedy of your idea is easily witnessed in wild with DarkPlaces pk3 support and replacement content and users crying for help saying "I want A to work with B" or "I want this progs to work with this content".

/All of the weaknesses and tragedies of multigame dir support are hiding in plain sight in reading DarkPlaces related posts in the QuakeOne forums.

It doesn't take reading more than 4 or 5 posts related to use of multiple pk3 or multiple gamedir content conflicts with DarkPlaces to get a quick handle of true horrors ...
just got PREKT 
@kinn - Haha 
Now I'll never have to type Chapter 15 of the "Horrors of DarkPlaces" again.

I'll just copy/paste that post ;-) 
Yeah Except 
Baker, I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not really looking for a console command (well, except for the very speculative last bit). I'm looking for a command line switch. And it's not for combining arbitrary mods, it's for combining a map pack which knows it's adding onto AD onto the standard AD installation. I don't think there would be any compatibility issues because each "mod" higher up on the chain knows what to expect below it (AD knows to expect ID1 files, the map pack knows to expect AD and ID1 files).

It might even let you fix the issues that future versions of a mod break compatibility by adding the progs to the map pack, thereby freezing the version of the progs which the map pack uses (although on the flip side this means that you won't get bug fixes from future versions either). Quoth implements this feature already with a batch file that renames a pak file to add it to the path, so it's doable in practice. I'm just suggesting that being able to do this directly, and with directories instead, would be nice. 
Multiple Gamedirs 
half of baker's rant is about people messing up paks/pk3s, rather than gamedirs... I suspect half the reason he's complaining is because he has no idea how to get it working with his special-case 'hdfolder' hack.

Demos don't even come in to it, or at least no more than a multiplayer server. Users have had to use -game manually for a long time, simply adding another gamedir changes NOTHING in that regard.

Frankly, multiple gamedirs are fine if mod makers take the necessary precautions.

1) Always include a progs.dat in your map packs. This gives future-proofing.
2) Update news posts etc as appropriate whenever someone finds a bug in the underlaying mod that might affect your map pack.
3) For multiplayer, if a mod adds/removes/changes frames in a model, then the new version of the model needs to use a different filename (the old may or may not need to be distributed).
4) For single player, if you want to make it friendly, then provide/check for 'quothversion.txt' or whatever from qc to give a more helpful error when content is missing/outdated. Imho Baker is part of the problem if his engine(s) still don't allow this.
5) For multiplayer, always provide your content in pk3s. Each new version gets its own pk3. Clients that support downloads can then download compressed data instead of wasting bandwidth and time. Again, engines that don't support pk3s are imho part of the problem.
6) Avoid the use of default.cfg or quake.rc. Clients should not auto-download these, and if they come from a downloaded pk3 then they at least shouldn't be given full priveledges (like including a 'save pak0.pak' line), which causes a few sandboxing issues.

All it takes is some discipline (well, that and no custom defaults).

Nobody took it up though
fte+dp already support multiple -games from the commandline, and have done for quite some time:
-game basemod -game mappack
equivelent console command for fte (with 'hdfolder' equivelentsish):
gamedir "basemod;*hdbasemod;mappack;*hdmappack" 
List Of 6 
6 great arguments against multiple gamedir support, really. If supporting something like that is going to require that much consistency from authors, there's no way it's going to work out well.

I mean, honestly! Updating news posts? Unique filenames for each version? Avoiding use of default.cfg/quake.RC? Very few developers have managed that level of professionalism or quality in their releases over the past 20 years.

And as much as the stated goal is to provide an easy way to load map packs from their own separate directory, I can't see what recourse an engine developer would have to stop people from using it with anything else. Maintaining a list of what's compatible and what's not is infeasible, so I imagine you could easily end up with strange cases of mods partially overriding other mods or just straight up crashing, just like Baker mentioned.

I'd like to be proven wrong on that point, though. I've never tried multigamedir in engines that support it so I'm curious as to how they solve or work around the problems of inappropriate use. 
That list of 6 requirements (NOT arguments) are things for mods with a specific base mod in mind, which is what Preach was talking about (according to #402).

But hey, lets all make multiple copies of AD. One complete copy for each map pack that depends upon it. Then we can get the quakeinjector/downloads to redownload it all multiple times.
Yes, that's a much better idea. Not. 
Who Uses DarkPlaces 
other than weird people who like Quake better when it has textures from a shitty Xbox-era game coated with a fresh coat of jizz? 
I didn't figure you as someone who would make this kind of derogatory comments, Lane. Funny thing is, the feature you're bashing DP for is the one that's also supported by QS, so I guess you should shit on QS too, just to be fair...

There's more to DP than hi-rez textures, like for example support for replacement models or a killer real-time lighting system. BTW, if you ever wander at, you'll see that a lot of quakers use DP. 
I'm Sorry Mugwump 
One of these days I'll buy you a drink and tell you about my days. 
Copy... Why? 
I think I'm missing something in this whole discussion, sadly.
If we're releasing map packs for mods, which is what people are saying multigamedir would be best for, why would we actually need multigamedir? Map packs are just collections of .bsp, .lit and other files that can simply be plonked down into the /maps directory of a mod installation.

Or are we talking about map packs that are more than just map packs? So, sub-mods?

I ask because Spike mentions creating multiple copies of AD for various "map packs that depend on it", but so far that hasn't been necessary for releases that use AD in the past so... yeah. Confused. 
No Worries, 
I don't take offence easily. And I am a bit weird... ;) 
the jizz would be the awful bump maping? ja!

- i dislike bump maping. in old games, in new games.
- i don't like the new dp particle, smoke and blood effects either.

+ i don't have problem with hd textures, though

- i remain unimpressed with RTlights

+ i like water reflections, dp have those right? pretty water and all that... i couldn't make it work.

+ i like seven's smc mod. well, half of the mod, but comes with a .cfg to disable things.

+ and i would bow and praise if i see actual realtime raytracing lightning coming from those bizantine mosaics.
+ or, more realistically, sun rays like those in stalker clear sky in the morning, but colored (and various colours!). those mosaics are begging for something like that 
why would we actually need multigamedir?
For cleanliness and ease of use? A new folder for each map pack would prevent the cluttering of the mod's \maps folder. 
omg, omg
i remembered

i didn't play tfuma, azad or magna yet!
omg, omg

i will record demo in skill 3. without deaths if possible, with quickloads instead of restarting the level if i die 
@ #406 
I do! Dp and fte support multiple game directories which I use all the time with no issues. Not to mention all of their other features, but having those features doesn't mean you have to turn them all on or turn up the "jizz". Whatever the hell that is to you...LOL 
Avoiding use of default.cfg/quake.RC? Very few developers have managed that level of professionalism or quality in their releases over the past 20 years.

Okay, so how do we provide our own settings while staying professional? 
It's not my criteria, don't ask me. A lot of people seem unhappy with the idea of you providing your own settings though... 
i thought quake.rc was the correct way to do it. autoexec.cfg and config.cfg are the ones that you should never include. 
Multiple Gamedir 
Yeah I for one definitely vote for having multiple gamedir support in an engine as it gives so much freedom to the end user with regard to how he wishes to combine different gameplay mods, assets, and maps. I have been using this feature for years with DP, and since its development slowed down, I have picked up first QS then Mark_V but the multi gamedir support has always been what I miss most of DP, on par with multi folder mod directory support (e.g. DP.exe -game ./addon/czg07) 
Are you aware that LordHavoc is working on his engine again? Check the link in post #159 and download either the nightly autobuild or one of the 2016 betas. No, they're not in the Downloads section... Bonus: you'll get alpha-masked texture support, so these vines in AD will no longer look broken. 
Configs Explaination 
using a default.cfg in a base mod that a map pack depends upon runs the risk of a user installing the map pack, and getting a config.cfg auto-saved from it when the base mod wasn't installed. Which means that the default.cfg still doesn't do anything when they do finally get the multiple games enabled.

In multiplayer, the client will not know that it needs to download a new default.cfg.

I'm not necessarily saying no default.cfg ever, rather I'm saying that any changed settings within the default.cfg will not always be usable.
Just be aware that custom default.cfg files won't always be execed, or might be execed after its settings were already saved into config.cfg

qss+fte have a customisable binds menu, which is one way for a user to fix things up if their prior config.cfg overrode newer defaults (an updated default.cfg might still rebind stuff if something was not previously bound, at least, just don't depend upon the user having no prior binding).

qss+dp+fte all support set+seta console commands to create custom cvars from eg default.cfg (as well as autocvars, in case the default.cfg was missing or the engine ignored set/seta). Such custom cvars won't exist in prior config.cfgs so they'll pick up their correct default once the correct default.cfg is installed. Not (ab)using temp1 means that its default value of 0 becomes irrelevant.

Imho the only valid use of a custom quake.rc is to change the auto-play demo list. any changes before config.cfg should be done by modifying the default.cfg instead, while any changes after override the user's settings and are thus user-hostile. 
Seasoned mod users delete the .cfgs shipped with a mod before even running it anyway, so they're basically useless. 
But it can bite you in the aft end if a mod binds custom impulses, so the truly seasoned just rename it, skim it for anything modspecific, the paste in their own cfg and add the mod binds as necessary. 
skill 3
37:11 ; 2/10 secrets ; 161/192 monsters ;; 3 deaths
so much for no dying
good architecture 2/10 secrets... those secrets are well hidden. i died the three times because of monster ambushes
i liked that section with those wood.. mmm.. scaffoldings... or whatever... 
Multiple Gamedir Justification 
I thought I should mention one of the main motivations for having some way of separating out the content that comes with a map from the content that comes with a mod. There is a benefit to neatness, and with that you get the ability to "uninstall" a map and its content cleanly. But the main benefit to my mind is to avoid conflicts.

Suppose that two maps released for AD both come with their own unique skybox, but by coincidence both name the skybox "dusk". If you just extract both maps directly into the AD folder, one skybox will overwrite the other. The direction of the lighting at dusk needs to match with the position of the sun in the skybox, so it's likely that one map now looks broken.

The same risk applies to external models, sounds, and other resources, and the important change that AD and Quoth make is that these custom resources can be loaded by a map without needing to create a new mod. As more people take advantage of the features, there is a greater need to bundle together the map and its own resources into a single package.

A pak file makes for a nice, easy to handle bundle, because it's all a single file (and pk3 has the bonus of compression). However, I think the gamedir has won the day because it has lower cost of creation, has the necessary engine support, and degrades gracefully - people who can't or don't want to use the feature can continue to extract the zip file into the base directory. Cheers Spike for making that happen, it's always fun when you ask for a feature and get equally forceful replies of "stop asking for that, it's impossible" and "stop asking for that, we did it ages ago"! 
If you just extract both maps directly into the AD folder, one skybox will overwrite the other. The direction of the lighting at dusk needs to match with the position of the sun in the skybox, so it's likely that one map now looks broken.

A bit of offtopic, but I'm glad people care about these things now. Some years ago developers small and big were seemingly unaware of the relationship between the shadows on the ground and that weird bright spot in the sky.

Attaching a lens flare effect to the latter - sure, looks purdy. Shadows are pointing towards the sun - uhhh, so what? 
Back in 2005 I do remember trying to get quake engine authors to agree on a standard orientation for the skybox. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still inconsistency in sky orientation even today*

(* no evidence to back that up, just saying I wouldn't be surprised) 
Been Replaying Stuff 
When I first discovered the credits map, I was absolutely charmed. My first and last thought was something along the lines of "This is the best version of Oneiros I've ever seen, minus the color palette". But not because I didn't like the palette, it was just different.

Now it looks much closer to Oneiros, but I'm not sure it actually benefits the map. The old version was like something out of a fairy tale. The 1.5 version is white on magenta - rather cold and lifeless, but not in a cool way.

Maybe a warmer shade for the main color would improve it, but right now it kinda lacks contrast.

Or maybe it's the baby duck syndrome again. 
First off, the connection you made with Oneiros never ocurred to me while making the credits map.
But i see your point now.
Concerning the light in the map, the bounce and phong shading has a general "brighten up everything" tone to it, it lacks contrast in the end. Besides other points.

I admit wholeheartly, those features where just "tacked on" to the original map files when recompiling, so the results are what they are.

Glad for your feedback tho, thx a ton, you actually spoke out one of my main concerns about it...and any future maps will be lit accordingly... Yep. 
Thanks for your demos so far! Glad you liked it. 
Is this a Quake map? I've searched Quaddicted with this keyword but it returned no result.

I never played the 1.42 version of the end map but I saw a screenshot with a decidedly different dark blue sky. Any specific reason for the tone change? This can't be just because of the lighting, can it? Now I have to reinstall 1.42 to see the difference!

Anyway, I enjoyed the 1.5 version quite a lot. I love the islands-in-the-sky theme. BTW, what's with the monster count? I got only 2 frags in the end while having actually killed much more - and no fish. 
Clive Barker's Undying 
Great game. 
i was refering to this

Clive Barkers Undying had no influence on the design tbh, as i don't know this game :) 
and the monstercount you can't rely on.
All of the monsters spawned via the hidden button do not add up to the final count, because of the "nomonstercount" flag. 
not a flag, its just a key set on those monsters. 
First off, thanks for the french wiki link, that's a nice attention, though I wouldn't have minded an english link.

Hmmm, "demons with black wings"... So I guess the Night Gaunts are these Oneroi.

As a Clive Barker fan, I did play Undying back in the day. I thought it was a pretty good game but I don't remember much of it, and Oneiros doesn't ring a bell. I might reinstall it someday.

BTW, you haven't answered my question about the color tone change. 
I Haven't Answered Because Its Minor In My Eyes. 
Fair Enough 
I asked out of curiosity but yeah, gameplay is what really matters. I loved how it's mostly exploration for the first part and then, right when you grab the secret, all hell breaks loose! Minor quibble: the last "boss" fight is a bit anticlimactic, especially compared to the secret fight: all you have to do is safely snipe from the other side of the bridge. 
I Know 
but there has to be some things to moan about in the end, nothing will ever be perfect. words words words.... 
Rest assured that of your maps I've played so far, I very rarely have anything to moan about. BTW, how's work progressing on your spaceship map that you teased us with a few screenshots some time ago? I expected it to be in 1.5 and was a bit disappointed to see it wasn't there... 
Oh well, that map needs some rest again, the tech/engines aren't ready yet. Or sth. 
Awww... It Looked Great! 
And we don't have many space maps in Quake. What's so special about it that modern engines can't handle? 
Too many faces being drawn at once, because of excessive facecount/geometry being too detailed. Huge vistas play a role too. I hardly expect this to not improve over the time, tbh.
We'll see, but atm the map is unoptimized. And not much fun to play. 
This can't be just because of the lighting, can it?

Well, it seems to me that the only major change is the fog color. Even the skybox is the same, but the way the fog affects it (I think it's the fog) makes a lot of difference.

Also, it seems to me that the shadows remain cold, which doesn't work as well with magenta as the primary color of the sky. 
if you don't mind, give some examples (like screenshots), so i can follow your reasoning more closely. I try to improve the light with every new map (and with older ones revisited), so im glad with any feedback you leave here.
Thx in advance. 
They do?! Define seasoned? After 20 years I must not be seasoned. I examine the files before I put them where needed under my quake directory, read the readme for mention of need to know impulses & other info and not blindly delete anything. You described the opposite of seasoned. 
Is there a document detailing the wave/trigger setups for the bosses (ice goldem, eidolon)? 
I think he meant seasoned as in "herbs and spices". Well marinated Quakers tend to taste better when you delete their config files. /s 
LOL Pritchard! 
@xaGe Well, it never hurts to take a look of course, but what I described is the very abbreviated version of the advice I was given several times when I was still very new to the community from people who have done it for years when I complained that some mods fucked my config up and forced me to redo it all over again. I never meant that they do it blindly, or that anyone should for that matter. 
@preach - It's Awesome You Read Me Correctly 
It might even let you fix the issues that future versions of a mod break compatibility by adding the progs to the map pack, thereby freezing the version of the progs which the map pack uses (although on the flip side this means that you won't get bug fixes from future versions either).

I've been thinking about this. You read my mind.

I want a mapper's map to be played in the context of the original mapper's intent.

About Spike: Spike is 1/3 right and 2/3 wrong.

I love Spike, Spike is very intelligent.

But 18 months ago, Spike didn't fully understand what the Quake Injector did or why it was important.

I'll just say this: Spike is wrong. I'll prove it later.

I can explain exactly why Spike is wrong.

I'm rather happy you correctly interpreted my posts from my point of view of someone who cares about the infrastructure of Quake and the intention of mappers.

I also wish you structured the Quoth 2.2x updates in the same "peel back" manner as previous Quoth release.

Story for another time. 
multiple gamedirs are fine if mod makers take the necessary precautions.


I know of examples that even mods with all the precautions possible, the engine cannot handle correctly because the right information isn't available.

It is also obvious in your very careful wording "necessary precautions" that you damn well know there are a number of conflicting scenarios possible.

You already know "multi-game" has very negative consequences and is poorly designed. 
@spike - A Simple Example 
1) AD modded by community, version 1.
2) My mod that depends on AD. version 1.

Which progs.dat gets used? Mine of course.

Then dwere fixes the super shotgun model in "AD modded by community, version 1" by adding a couple frames. And he patches the progs.dat and source code.

Of course, now my "My mod that depends on AD" is now broke. Because my progs.dat is the one that runs, and it doesn't know about the new model frames.

The whole multigamedir concept depends on non-development. The slightest change in a dependency throws a wrench into everything.

And what's fun, I have examples of how it can get hilariously screwed up even with "all the right precautions". Awesome stuff.

Pictoral view - educational, for sure

What could possibly go wrong? 
if you don't mind, give some examples (like screenshots), so i can follow your reasoning more closely

I would, but I'm not sure what I should depict. I'm probably pulling this last bit about the shadows out of my ass anyway.

What I was trying to say is that the sky is pretty saturated, so it should probably affect all exposed surfaces by making them absorb some of its hue. But the ambient (not sunlight) hue seems to be cooler, and not much different (if at all) from when the sky was blue.

Since the sky/fog color isn't that warm, maybe it's okay; but something forced me to make this observation, so I dunno. I'm not gonna pretend I have a deep understanding of how this should work. 
Then dwere fixes the super shotgun model in "AD modded by community, version 1" by adding a couple frames
which is why I listed this precaution
if a mod adds/removes/changes frames in a model, then the new version of the model needs to use a different filename (the old may or may not need to be distributed).
obviously that needs to be followed by the original mod ANYWAY if you want multiplayer to work well when people may have slightly different versions installed. If dwere causually changed a model then its dwere's fault (poor dwere, getting picked on like this) if something (like multiplayer, or hi-res replacement models) fucked up because of it.

multiple gamedirs already exist. id1, qw, $enginedir, hipnotic, quoth, $mod (+homedir versions of each)...
Keeping extra blockages to prevent people from doing what they want when the engine must already be able to cope with it is just user hostile, imho, but to each their own I guess. Without it I guess people will just have to keep on making copies of large (and possibly copyrighted) mods.
Anyway, your engine, your limitations. Whatever. 
skill 3
54:45 ; 6/13 secrets ; 211/245 monsters ;; 3 deaths
i really liked the new monsters. i don't if any of you knows the doom's mod "winter's fury" (awesome wad), but poison instead of ice. i decided to end the map before trying to get to the roof. well, the next time i will try to do a 100% run, no matter how much time it takes. 
No Making Copies, Just NOT Using That Engine. 
Not that I could anyway since it doesn't seem to support Linux, but that's not the point.

On Linux at least you could symlink files and folders to save space, but still not as friendly as command line multiple directory support. 
Going To Play Through The Rest Of This In About An Hour 
skill 3
2 deaths
i did not take notes of time, monsters and secrets. but it's the biggest demo in filesize. 165mb, ~2.4gb uncompressed
impressive really. really long map, lots of secrets, lots of monsters, good gameplay.

well, i finished playing all the maps
what can i say that hasn't been said? it's a shame that this mod don't have more exposure. it's really that good, the gameplay is excellent.
doom has a better gameplay, that's why it has a bigger modding comunity and vibrancy. quake it's my favourite game of the two, but perhaps it's the first pc game that i played.
but with arcane dimensions, quake has better gameplay that doom or any of doom mods i played. better yet, it's simple enough that any "casual" player can grasp it quickly and enjoy the game. the maps have high replayibility

i played mods in doom, unreal, half-life I & II, age of empires II & III, warcraft III, homeworld series, total war series, stalker, oblivion, skyrim, etc. and this is the best mod that i encountered thus far. long war for xcom:eu and perma for skyrim are awesome high quality mods. i find arcane dimensions better than those two, wich i previously considered the best gameplay mods in games (that i know, and not counting counter-strike, but that's multiplayer). 
Thx Topher 
Cool demos! 
Can Ad Be Done Chopped? 
i will try, with the following rules:
* easy difficulty
* no reloading.
* no speed demo. i am not interested in doing it in the shortest time.
* shooting buttons allowed
* a couple of really accidental shots allowed. ie: when you pick a weapon during a fight.
* shot at flying enemies allowed but only when it won't come to ground level.

i'm not sure how many maps i can finish this way.

here it is ad_e1m1 done chopped (the easiest one): 
more fun!

this one was tricky
those hammer ogres are a nightmare to fight with the axe. for now.. until i figure out how to fight them well. 
I'm not really looking for kind of argument that causes tension.

I could have decided to file the topic in the "I don't care" department. It doesn't materially impact me.

However, what good am I if I don't cite the reasons this has already been tried and failed.

It has failed every time it has been tried, and history repeats itself. If we called it "Windows DLL Hell" or if we were instead calling it Quakespasm Spiked requiring 32-bit libraries but the 64-bit ones have the same name you'd likely agree with me.

Although without Quake Injector support and support for it in the Quaddicted database, will be interesting to see how the average user would even install them.

-- Or are you under the impression that all these new guys that can't find their Quake folder are manually installing things like Arcane Dimensions and Quoth and then doing the command line themselves like an expert? Haha

Anyway, I did my part to share knowledge. ;-)

This doesn't affect me. And besides, I recommend you go with this.

Will be more fun saying "See I told you, hahah".

To be a good predictor, need to have someone super-smart like you who didn't listen and walked in the minefield anyway ;-)

Will make me look good.

/Anyway, Spike your #1 in my book. Done talking about this boring subject anyway, fun stuff is what I like. 
More Axe Fun 
this one was easy. i did it in the first attempt in twenty or so minutes 
I rarely watch demos but an axe challenge could be fun to watch. I'd like to see how you axe a pyro, an ice golem or a fury knight... Which protocol are you using? 
protocol 666, quakespasm
fury knight are the one with two swords? i tackled one with a quad damage in this demo.
for now, the hammer ogre are the one who are seriously giving me fight and killing me. i don't record the failures.

e2m7 was hard but not as hard as e2m2. in e2m2 i finished the level after like 12 attempts or more. i made e2m7 after 5 attempts.

playing in easy certainly helps. somehow i still get shot by those xbow knights. they are good. 
If You Watch Demos... 
i watch demos with markv, that sourceport has rewind and fast playing, with the arrow keys. quakespasm doesn't have that 
Heh, yeah a quad certainly helps! You get hit by crossbow knights? They do have great accuracy but in skill 0 their shots are very sloooooow. 
ad_e2m2 @5'42": Challenge failed! ;) You nailed a crossbow knight while the ledge he stands on is accessible (in fact, you land upon it @9'32"). 
MARKV has a bug with the rewind feature in demos. when you rewind, the clock go forward instead of backward.
when you pause (down arrow) and unpause, the time is resynced.

the real time is 3:55
that xbow knight is unaprocheable with axe.

when i jumped after grabbing the sharpshoter powerup (8:53), i jumped in another area. 
Pyro Explode On Death? 
Is this a bug, I remember using gibondeath value 1 : Explode on death earlier. But now I tried it and it didn't explode. I was planning placing pyro near the explosive boxes, and after pyro is death it might trigger some boxes to explode in a row and hurt player a bit. Not sure does explode has any radius/blast damage? 
Is there any good way to make a misc_smoke "start" its animation? It's pretty annoying having it just pop in when it's been triggered. 
Zendar Axed 

i have to say, the new axe make the axe only runs much more easy and quick

i shot the nour for brevity and for my sanity 
Shell Splash 
Has anyone else noticed that shotgun shells make a splash sound if they land in water, but only after hitting a dry surface first? Weird. 
Grenades behave the same, IIRC.

Probably some quirk in how MOVETYPE_BOUNCE works. 
I am now officially requesting a mod that turns the shotgun shells into little mini grenades. 
Technically, they ARE grenades...

void(float shell_qty) Launch_ShellCasing =


local vector org, dir, avel;

if ( < 1 ) return;
if (query_configflag(SVR_SHOTGCASE)) return;

if (self.flags & FL_CLIENT) makevectors (self.v_angle);
else makevectors (self.angles);
org = self.origin + v_up*10;

while (shell_qty > 0)


dir = -v_right*75 + v_forward*(random()*50) + v_up*(100 + random()*100);
avel = vecrand(0,300,TRUE);
Launch_Grenade(org, dir, avel, CT_PROJ_SHELLC);
shell_qty = shell_qty - 1;


I am now officially requesting a mod that gives the shotgun shells trajectory distance drop off, but also gives grunts and dbs enforcers z-awareness to compensate. 
What happened to mon_eel? It seems to be entirely non-existent except for one tantalizing line in the documentation. Was it cut from the release? 
There was a build I tested with mon_eel, it was a projectile type monster instead of a close range style one from the expansion.

I don't remember having great things to say about the implementation in place, plus I wasn't making a level that utilised it. None of the new maps had significant water sections so I am guessing Sock considered it bloat and binned the enemy off. 
Is it possible to have an item resting on top of a func_breakable that falls down when said breakable is destroyed? 
there are several secrets in ad maps that are exactly that 
I believe the spawnflag "Floating" on items is what youre after.

ad_necrokeep does this. 
Breakable targets item you want to fall. Have it start with floating flag. 
KingDime plays ad_tfuma: 
I Feel Bad 
that he didnt work out the secret language of the red painted doors (with skull wings). If he just hit the first door he'd be set. Oh well.

He seemed to have enjoyed it mostly. 
How are we supposed to enter the path for ambient_custom_sound? Using the noise key, I tried "sound/ambience/liquid_bubble.wav", "ambience/liquid_bubble.wav" and "liquid_bubble.wav" and none of them worked. 
All custom sounds go in "sound/" but you do not include it as part of your path.

Hence, your "ambience/liquid_bubble.wav" should work as long as it's a valid .wav file, no spelling errors and is located in the "ambience" directory inside of the "sound" directory.

This is taken from an ad_swampy custom sound entity: "ambience/woodcreak2c.wav"

Using "liquid_bubble.wav" would mean that you just have that .wav file under the "sound" directory by itself.

It's pretty straight forward so I don't know why you are having problems with it, good luck. 
I ended up copying an entity from ad_swampy after I decided to check it out myself, and when I put it in my map and changed which sound it played everything worked fine... Honestly not sure what I was doing wrong before but oh well... 
Is it possible to make it so that enemies can't see through transparent water? referring to this change:

+ sightchecks can changed based on water alpha values (water=1;solid)
Grenade resistance is pretty nifty 
In the 50 days between your posts, you could have looked at the Arcane Dimensions source code.

Which Sock, being one of the "good guys", made Arcane Dimensions open source as deliberate decision because "it's the right thing to do", not because it was "required to do".

I'm merely pointing out you have many avenues to address your own interests here that do not rely on begging Sock to reply or say something. 
It's not like my most recent post was "begging" - it was just a slightly humorous 12 second long video clip.

And neither was my previous one. It was just asking if it was "possible" - as in, can it be done, and if so could you please point me in the right direction and let me do it myself?

Since then I've figured out a solution anyway, so it's not like my most recent post is me sticking my hand up and saying "hey, you forgot about me!" or something obnoxious like that. 
I was just saying that Sock kindly went out of his way to enable others to examine, change or inspect the behavior of Arcane Dimensions -- so no one had to depend on him as the only way to know what X does or even change the behavior of X.

if so could you please point me in the right direction and let me do it myself?

As a last and final resort, I would certainly help you.

But what you should really do is is a text search for the source code for the word "sightchecks" and then if you need help ask in the Coding Help thread.

There are others more experienced with QuakeC and far more familiar with the AD code that regularly post in the help threads. 
Reading Comprehension 
"Since then I've figured out a solution anyway, so it's not like my most recent post is me sticking my hand up and saying "hey, you forgot about me!" or something obnoxious like that."

"Since then I've figured out a solution anyway..."

"Since then I've figured out a solution anyway..."

Anyway, in the interest of making this post actually contribute to the conversation, here's how you can block AI sight through water in AD without having to recompile/redistribute the entire codebase with your map:

1. set "water_alpha" "1" in worldspawn
2. create an info_stuffcmd with:
"message" "r_wateralpha 0.5"

That's it. You'll be able to swim around undetected by those above you, unless you break the surface.

I'm a bit concerned about info_stuffcmd - I might be setting a user's settings "permanently" when I use it, which isn't great. But still, it's better than making my map require its own folder separate from AD - where it would use up far more HDD space with duplicate files etc. 
Cool. Yeah, sometimes I get caught up reading each sentence. Sorry, haha ;-)

Guilty as charged ... 
Didn't Know What Thread To Post This In... 
I've been playing AD today and really like it a lot, but on certain maps (ad_azad, ad_tfuma, possibly others) my framerate crawls to an unplayable slideshow. I've tried it both quakespasm and dx9 MarkV with similar results for each. Is there a particular effect in those maps that would so drastically reduces FPS or what? Most of the time maps run with very high FPS. I've tried looking into settings to mess with, but admittedly I'm not very adept with this stuff. 
I also notice stuttering on tfuma, I think the size of these maps, and thus the amount of polygons being rendered is what is causing the fps to go down. My only suggestion is that you try to turn down screen resolution under the video settings. I am running a low level quad core Pentium with integrated graphics and my frame rate is ok, but only because my resolution is turned down a little. You can also try turning off vertical sync (in game) and anti-aliasing in your video card settings.

Maybe someone with more knowledge can help you more, sorry. 
QuakeC can also be a framerate killer.

If there are a lot of entities and if anything with exponential complexity is happening in QC, it can easily enough pull framerates down.

Have you tried disabling the AD particles? There's an impulse for this you should be able to find in the readme. 
Kind Of Weird... 
Okay, so I installed Quake and AD in a Linux partition just now, and tried playing the maps again, and for whatever reason the framerate issues are gone. The game isn't going under 60 fps on either tfuma or azad. I'm not sure what the deal is really. Maybe the intel drivers in linux are just better than the one's in windows? 
Is There Still Anyone 
who doesn't know that Windoze is a crappy OS? If only Linux was as user-friendly...

More seriously and on topic, from my absolutely not tech-savvy POV, I doubt it's a driver problem: one would think Intel would take at least as much care of their drivers for the (by far) most widely distributed OS as those for Linux. 
I Have A Question 
for Sock or any AD mapper who would know the answer: is it possible to build a ladder that could be climbed in one go just by simply pressing the forward key (like most other mods do) instead of the slower step-by-step approach? This is fine in more realistic games but in Quake it makes the player lose precious seconds that would be better used blowing things up and/or running the hell away from danger... 
Yes, make a very steep clip brush with increments of 2 Quake units steps the full width of the ladder.

All the classic era maps do this and you could build a ladder to a 2nd tier and it will be thin.

Limitation: It isn't practical to use this method for much more height than that. 
I knew about this method for having seen this done many times since Doom but I was hoping to make really vertical ladders, not what is basically a steep staircase.

Thanks anyway, Baker. 
Hacky Ladders 
each step needs to be <= 18qu high, and thanks to editors+qbsp compilers with non-integer verticies the horizontal distance can be 1/8th of a qu or so without any issues. Yes its not vertical, but can still be quite steep. That said, precision issues might favour sticking to 16:0.25 per step instead of 18:0.125
You could also sneakily angle the surface behind the ladder in such a way that the slope of the ladder is hidden somewhat.

that said, at high physics framerates it'll feel almost like teleportation... :s 
Thank You Spike 
I'll try that and see how it goes. While you're here, I have a tiny OT question (sorry Sock) for you regarding QSS: is it possible to set water, dirty water, slime and lava alpha levels independently from each other? Also their respective opaqueness when the player is swimming under the surface? 
QS (and QSS) have r_wateralpha, r_slimealpha, r_lavaalpha, r_telealpha cvars. Also respective wolrdspawn keys without the "r". Can't have a different opacity above/below though. 
OK Thanks 
But there's no differenciation whatsoever between clear and dirty water, right? Also, I didn't meant "different opacity above/below" but "different opacity depending on fluid type". DP can do that, I was hoping Spike would have borrowed this feature... 
Thread Hijack 
If you mean q3shaders then no, I didn't add q3shaders to QSS. Only FTE and arguably DP support q3shaders. On the plus side, you can get QSS to spew particles from your water... yay?
Quite frankly, q3shaders suck, which is how DP can get away with supporting them so poorly, while FTE's more complete support means that unmodified shaders end up with no specular/etc.

It would be nice to have some simple material script (instead of 'shaders') that specifies how to handle various textures without significant implementation differences, but that sounds too much like politics for anything to actually come from it. 
OK, Thanks For The Reply Spike. 
Small OT officially over. Since I had this question for you and we were already talking in this thread, I thought it unnecessary to move to the QS thread for such a small question. Should I have moved it anyway? Sorry if it bothered some people. 
You can make a staggered wall panel so steep it seems ridiculous that the Quake guy would walk up it.

Spike is right it's a mind-blowing 18 in the engine source.

It would be like walking up the side of a house, with some minimum size brushes. I think the minimum brush width is 2 units (?), but if I am correct the minimum placement unit is 1 unit?

1 unit is half as thick as the thinnest railing someone has ever made in Quake if the above is correct.

I imagine no one has tried to make a maximum abusiveness ladder because I don't think any discussion of the specifics has ever occurred. 
I have a duplicate of Tokay's Towers that I made for Quake. The ladders were recreated using thin clip brushes in front of the ladders. They're triangular from the top view and point out from the face of the ladder. I think they are only 1 unit thick at that point. The biggest problem is that the player moves up them nearly instantly. It feels very unnatural. 
"almost like teleportation", "nearly instantly"... Damn guys, that wouldn't do. How are ladders made in other mods vs. AD, then? 
@Rick ... good point.

@Mugwump ... generally there aren't. Rubicon2 has ladders, if I recall they require a use key.

Half-Life had ladders everywhere, but without checking I imagine they were special brushes and the engine has altered physics to accommodate. 
Ladders in HL are func_ladder brush entities applied in front of the actual ladder. 
I haven't played Rubicon2 yet but I'm almost 100% positive that I have played a few Quake maps/mods containing ladders that only required to press forward. Can't remember which ones, though.

I've just checked the AD readme. Ladders are entities. How could one modify the ladder entity so that it does what I want? 
almost 100% positive that I have played a few Quake maps/mods containing ladders that only required to press forward

If you can remember the names, I could probably tell you how they did them. 
Actually, I'd rather learn how to modify the ladder entity. It would allow me to play existing AD maps with ladders to my liking instead of only creating ones for my own maps. 
Ones *some 
Actually, I'd rather learn how to modify the ladder entity. It would allow me to play existing AD maps with ladders to my liking instead of only creating ones for my own maps.

Please do it and let me know when it's ready. 
I Have No Idea How, 
which is why I asked in the first place. Can someone point me to a tutorial or explain (in n00b terms) how to do it? 
This Really Belongs In Mapping Help 
If you set trigger_ladder speed to like 200 or 250 you can climb faster.

Is that what you mean? 
I Asked Here Because It Was AD-specific, 
but we can move this to mapping help if requested.

I mean setting ladders to be climbed in one go by pressing forward instead of jumping step-by-step. 
There was a mod called QuakeLife video.

As you can imagine, it is playing Quake co-operative with friends against the monsters on Half-Life maps.

It is likely that the source code to Quake-Life has a ladder solution, otherwise how could you play the Half-Life maps which are loaded with ladders? (source code for Quake-Life) 
Ha! See? I Knew Some Mods Did That! 
I've never seen QuakeLife before, though...

But Baker, you know I ain't no coder. I can't do anything with a source code... 
You Just Hold Jump 
no need to jump step by step 
Well, in all my AD playing I never realized that! :$

It significantly reduces the need for what I have in mind. Still, I would like to learn how to do something like that, for educational purposes. 
don't quoth ladders do it where pushing forwards (while looking up-ish) lets you go up? Also the pox extras mod does it, right? 
What should happen is ...

1) If the player is in contact with a ladder brush.

2) If the player has non-zero wish velocity (it's what it is called in the engine) -- i.e. the player intended movement vector ... which means X, Y, Z speed and direction.

3) If the wish velocity vector is facing the ladder, go up. If it is not, go down.

This would allow natural ladder movement.

I mean you can walk up a slope while looking down. You should also be able to press +forward while looking down and expect to go up a ladder.

You should be able to look up a ladder but press +backwards and go down.

Now is the above possible in QuakeC? I suspect not because ...

1) I don't think the engine tells QuakeC the wish velocity -- only the velocity after physics calculations. Without wish velocity all the alternatives are going to be unnatural.

2) A ladder brush would need to indicate what direction faces the ladder (i.e. north, south, east, wesst or some angle like 45). I doubt the ladder brushes have a physics angle key.

3) Probably would need to be done in the engine.

Here is how Quake 3 ladders work. I see wishspeed in there, so it sounds like I am correct:

Would need to be in the engine anyway, DarkPlaces and FTE have prediction. So does Spiked Quakespasm if connected to a DarkPlaces server.

/One opinion ... 
You should also be able to press +forward while looking down and expect to go up a ladder. You should be able to look up a ladder but press +backwards and go down.

Maybe something simpler would do? Fall damage in Quake is low enough to not really need to climb ladders down.

I found this:
and it looks like that's what I was shooting for. So how can I port the Quoth ladder behavior to AD? Please be very n00b-friendly in your reply: I'm no coder and I don't understand any of it. I need a very thorough tut explaining in detail in simple non-coder terms how to go through each step of the process. 
Good Luck 
Preach keeps Quoth 2.2 qc under tight lock and key. 
Terror Fuma Secrets 
done it.

found 12 of 13 secrets.

anyone here find them all? 
Nope Only 12 
i thought i had it.

there was a dead marine outside the base on a ledge next to a backpack.

it was hell to get to.

at first i thought i wasn't supposed to go by the route that i had taken, as i repeatedly kept on falling through the map at the same point!

i eventually made it!

turns out it wasn't a secret at all :(

well, it didn't trigger eitherway. 
Realm Of Enceladus Performance 
just after i start, approaching the archway, performance drops down to around 30!

is this a known issue?

apart from not running anything else apart from quake (browser anti-virus, downloads all stopped etc.).

to get a steady 60, were people having to run it using the older qs, not the spike version needed for forgotten sepulcher? 
Terra Fuma 
Ya, it was only after I got frustrated and noclipped that I found the ladder to get up top. Duh 
i thought after all that, it would be a secret, but no :( 
Realm Of Enceladus 
did you get performance issues with the encaledus map?

when i head out into the open, find the left pathway, it tanks down to 30 from 144! 
Lo Frag Traff 
Try disabling the QSS particles (or use standard QS). If your rig isn't top notch, particles can have a heavy effect on framerate. 
an i3 and a 660.

i thought it would be fine for quake though.

just after ni posted previously, i decided to launch it with the standard qs, and, the problem went away.

so how would i disable the qss particles?

not that it would help, as it seems i have to start the map from the beginning for it to take affect.

i have a 2 execs:

spike and standard qs.

i'm halfway through the map now with standard qs, but when i attempt to launch the quicksave with the spike qs the particles are not there anyway. 
Lo Frag 
This has been discussed recently in the Forgotten Sepulcher thread. See post #77 here as well as posts #162-171 here.

PS: of course the particles are not there in QS, they're a specific feature of QSS... 
I Know That, But.. 
i started anew with qs, got half way through, saved.

i created a qss shortcut exe, booted up the last save i made when using the qs exe, but the particles were not there.

apologies if i'm missing something obviously simple, but if the frame issues were only limited to that first outside section, then i thought why not just plug on with the qss exe with the particles?

it it turned out it was tanking quite frequently on my rig with the qss exe, then i would just give up and stick to the qs exe.

qs is fine, but i was thinking about tweaking a bit instead of turning EVERYTHING off.

as it turns out, i didn't know about pr_checkextension 0 
Broke Realm Of Encaledus Map :( 
got stuck in here [21:44]:

couldn't get out :(

the door sealed behind me, and there was no guard or square key/icon to pick up in the middle of the room.

anyone else have this issue? 
Axe The Dead Marine Next To The Shadow Axe 
and all will be fine. Sorry for that stupid moment, it is totally my fault.

Ran out of time/ideas, so i decided to trigger the following events via the "axe him" action.

Stupid me.

Thx for playing/feedback! 
S'ok :) 

aftere that i wondered around looking for secrets and taking the time out to admire the scenery/archtecture.

8/10 secrets.

couldn't find the rust key :( 
Horde Of Zendar! 
fuck me, this is a tough old bastard of a map!

i can see multiple replays of this so i can get the map layout in my head. 
Updated E2M2 
Not a fan of the changes. Some of the secrets were just removed. No more grenade jump secret, no more multiple silver keys and doors, no more hidden shootable switch for one of the elevators, what the hell? Seems to be designed to make first time players find everything in their first go. 
Going To Play Through The Update 
Starts in 45 minutes 
@ Ionous [so..] 
was it just forgotten sepulcher that was updated?

it's just that i didn't read anything that mentioned there was an update.

for better or for worse, in your opinion? 
Horde Of Zendar 
finished it!

quite tough for me on skill 2.

9/10 secrets.

that scrag boss fucked me off no end! 
mental interlinkage map-wise from sock! 
Lo Frag Staff 
A few of the maps had minor updates, but the major addition was indeed Sepulcher. 
Horde Of Zendar Demo Issue 
right, from what little i can gather from googling, i type playdemo [name of map] then hit enter.

i have tried dropping the extracted demo file into:

1) quake directory
2) id1 directory
3) ad directory

so far nothing.

the only thing i can think of is that the demo file is only compatible with the original horde of zendar mod, but somehow not with the version included with the arcane dimensions pack?

i've been wanting to try out MaxED's simple quake launcher, so i will try the original mod and the demo file before clocking some zee's tonight.

if i don't manage that in the meantime, hopefully someone can put me straight! 
Nah :( 
MaxED's launcer works like a charm, i'm glad to say!

booted up the original horde of zendar mod no problems, bit the following command seems wrong.

playdemo zendarnightmareisforpussies 
No Worries! 
a bit of a schoolboy eror on my behalf.

sorted now. 
That demo from is for the original release of the map (not AD):

I just extracted that, and put the .dem into my zendar1d folder, and it plays with playdemo zendarnightmareisforpussies 
No Playthrough Right Now

But probably at some later point! 
@ Ericw 
yeah, i figured :) 
10 Out Of 10 Secrets In Horde Of Zendar! 
i can retire happy now :)

colour me sozzled! 
@Lo Frag Traff 
Umm... try 100% secrets on Forgotten Sepulcher now... I double-dog-dare ya! 
So cruel :-P 
Ad_e2m2 Demo 
skill 3 demo for updated version of ad_e2m2

one of the greatest remakes ever. a huge kudos to sock

96/96 kills
9 out of 10 secrets found 
A Note To Others 
Spy's demos are pretty entertaining if you haven't caught them I highly recommend a view. Haven't watched this one but will do once everyone in RL stops bugging me. 
Enhanced Ad_quake.fgd

This is heavily modified and may only work properly in TB1/2.

Most entities that allow you to supply a model will now display the model you choose. Most of them will switch skins. Most monsters will switch skins as well. It was hard to provided for every scenario. For example, zombies with a custom skin will display the default skin if they are also Crucified/On Floor. Keys wont switch models based on worldtype(but they will if you supply a new skin under exactskin), theyll only stay as medieval keys..etc...

This also includes lots of things the current .fgd lacks like boglords and swamplings. Enjoy! 
1.7 BUMP. 
Kinda Disagree With 
The AD map source files are not needed or viewed much

It's always handy to look at some things, the logic_gates and so on

congrats the AD team and happy NY 
Totally Didn't Expect To See This 
What a nice gift for New Year! 
Date Of First Message 
Why is the date of the first message is 2016/12/04 ? Should be 2017/12/31 instead. 
Shall I delete the previous install or can I just unzip (ooh-err) on top of it? 
Nice work on the FGD, Mukor! Super useful.

A question for the group ...

Is there a way to launch AD without having the menu pop up? Like, in working a level, I'm constantly having to launch the game and then hit ESCAPE before I can actually play.

Is there a way to just launch straight into gameplay using +map? 
1.7 Map Reviews 
Hey Sock.

ac_ad: While I still need to play the original map to get some further perspective, I'll give a few comments anyway regarding how I feel about it.

The geometry was excellent, and had a very clean feel. It didn't feel very sock-ish, but I wonder if that was a homage to the original map. The button find was enjoyable for the most part and I didn't feel like any were too crazy out of the way.

There was one portion underwater where the player runs out of air fairly easily. I didn't notice an envirosuit either, so it's kind of awkward as a gameplay mechanic, especially if the player is traversing over it multiple times looking for the buttons.

*spoilers incoming*

In terms of gameplay, the pre and post button find secret enemies lead to a very different gameplay experience. The first half being far more cautious, and the base enemies were far more "run and gun". I played on nightmare and felt that it was maybe a touch too easy. In the end I gave up hunting down all the enemies because the map is so big and maze like that it was difficult to find them all. I think I had maybe eight left when I exited the level.

If I were to suggest an improvement it would be to close off portions of the map when you open up the button find secret, so that when the base enemies spawn the player can be directed to them better. Now having said all this, I thoroughly enjoyed the map.

s1m1: A really nice little homage / remix of e1m1. It was nice to see your take on the iconic stuff we all know so well. Good job keeping the secrets so similar in feel to the originals too. Gameplay was nice, and had a very faithful vibe. It was nice to see a bite sized map come from you, it was a pleasant change :)

Again, some great releases. Thanks for keeping working on this, even though you keep saying that it's finished and won't be worked on again XD 
I guess a workaround is just to leave Quakespasm running and bind a key to "restart" ... seems to work, and faster than restarting the engine from scratch. 
Is this a bug?

My AD folder is called "ad", and is placed inside the same folder containing all my other mods.

When I launch QS with the command "-game ad", it doesn't load the AD mod, and gives the default ID instead. Selecting the AD mod from within the QS MODS menu shows the name "ad. 7". (what is happening here!?).

If I call my AD folder as "ad1.7", then using the command "-game ad1.7" works fine.

What is happening here?

Something is fishy with the AD name and/or version number. 
There is an article about Arcane Dimensions on the new (US) PC Gamer. 
More AD goodness. Here is 100% Arcane Adamantine demo. Skill 2, first run, its a little long: 
Great Release! 
I removed startup menu by commenting out line in quake.rc containing "menu_main" command. 
Ah nice, didn't even think of that. Thx! 
[12:54] Shambler: new ad base map is not hangar 16 is it??
[12:54] SimonOC: @Shambler no, you want ad_s1m1
[12:54] Shambler: right
[12:55] Shambler: or ad_ac
[12:55] Shambler: cool
[12:55] Shambler: and one is in the default start map?
[12:55] onetruepurple: yes
[12:56] SimonOC: ad_s1m1 -> start map, ad_ac -> chapters
[13:02] Shambler: this is awesome
[13:03] Shambler: i have been looking in start map for 10 mins and can't find it
[13:03] onetruepurple: lmao
[13:03] Shambler: ah
[13:03] Shambler: errr
[13:03] Shambler: ummm
[13:03] Shambler: maybe i should download ad 1.7..........................................................................
[13:04] Shambler: SHUT
[13:04] Shambler: UP
[13:04] Shambler: none of your stupid q-whatever smileys 
New Maps.

S1M1 - beautiful design, structures and detailing, great execution of Idbase. I felt like it could have done with an extra 50% monsters, there's loads of space and room to move etc, it would still have been quite easy but maybe more satisfying.

ADACABAA - another great design, so much curvature and intricacy. The areas kinda blended into one but when the theme's this strong that's all good, just really consistent meaty Quakecture throughout. Meaty gameplay too, well balanced and fun, start was a teeny bit hard depending on route but later on it was spot on. I failed dismally at secrets.

Two very sweet releases to end the year on :) 
Loving S1M1 
Makes me want a full re-imagining of OG episode one in AD even more now.

First jam of 2018? :P 
ADAC: and my car hasn't even broken down, yet!

Very nice remix. Looks amazing of course, and visually a bit more varied than the orginal, at least as far as I remember it. Gameplay was fun and less of a grind thanks to the widow maker and general balance/pacing.
The super secret is still cool. Took me a while to find all the buttons, though. Rewarding base carnage as a bonus; however, my enjoyment of that was lessened by the fact that I already had backtracked through the entire map several times in search for the buttons. The watcher secret is particularly hilarious in this sense, as I could imagine him dying of extreme bordom watching me.

Demo with smooth gameplay up until the end, followed by a skippable search part.

GJ Sockdur 
Got 5/6 this time. Demo from a quicksave near the end. The supersecret is fucking dope as fuck :) 
Ad_quake.FGD 1.7 
Forgot to place it in the zip or are we on our own this time? 
I've chatted with Sock about this recently. He doesn't have time to update the FGD for each release. However he does update the .def file which can be used in TB2 and NetRadiant. If you use Trenchbroom you can use that instead. muk0r is most likely updating his FGD eventually, if he hasn't already. 
Thanks for the info. 
Slowly But Surely... 
... I'm working my way thru the last AD .FGD file adding in the new 1.7 .DEF files updates. Along with adding ALL the ericw-tools V0.16 options.

May have some questions soon, but I'll wait until I have it completed and fully functional. There are some things I don't understand yet, so even though they work in the editor it's not clear what you are setting and why!

I will put it up on quaketastic and/or email it to sock when finished. 
Are using TB?

Ill have a version out "SOON" with all the epdates as well as making use of TBs ability to switch models depending on what spawnflags or other keys you have set.

Heres a version for AD1.6 that switches out models. This is for TB only, though: 
also, feel free to email me(in my profile) or message me on twitter or discord with questions about .fgds. 
Nah, not Trenchbroom. This will be for JACK.

I put a reference to your FGD for Trenchbroom users at the top of it ;) Since that would be the slickest .FGD to use, gg.

Cool, thanks. Once I get to the point I can't progress will DM you on Discord. 
Make sure to include stuff that was left out of the.defs like the new liquidblock (iirc) key, please. :) 
Do you mean func_illusionary_visblocker?

But yeah... going thru the tools pages to put everything in. 
Also, Daz maintains an fgd for my tools, maybe handy to borrow from: 
Yep, I look at that for reference as well, thanks. 
No, it's a new key for monsters that was mentioned in the changelog but doesn't appear to be in the .def as far as I can tell. 
LIQBLOCK Is A Spwanflag ;) 
Found in the .DEF

EX: ------- SPAWNFLAGS --------
AMBUSH : the monster will only wake up on seeing the player, not by another monster
LIQBLOCK: Liquid surfaces block wakeup/sight lines 
Spawnflag Even! 
fml, we need post edits, heheh 
* Added liquidblock entity key to monsters, blocks sightline through liquids

Line 19 of ad_changelog.txt

Also where in the .def did you find it? Looking at one of the monsters in my map: 
monster_eel and monster_fish are the only ones to have that spawnflag.

I see what you are saying now. Reads as if every monster can have the key. Might need to look at the QC to verify. 
In QC Seems It's Just For Fish And Eel 
// Underwater enemies (liquid block option for all of them)
float MON_LIQUIDBLOCK = 4; // Liquids block sightlines (fish/eel)

No other mention on any other monsters. 
You can check for yourself if it works using this simple example map I made:

If you rise near the surface of the water but do not actually go above it, one of the grunts will activate but the other will not. This is because of the liquidblock key. 
That is indeed interesting! Good to know, thanks. 
AD .FGD 1.7 + Ericw-Tools V0.16 Progress 
So far I have these things completed with the latest of everything:

Light Options: Entities and Bmodels
QBSP Options: Func_(variants)
AD Updates through "FUNCTIONS"

Some parts are ofc tedious, but the cool thing is, I can now "break" things apart. Example: Looking at the properties of a Candle no longer show the properties ONLY relevant to a Light(point entity).

Other little touches like that are used throughout.

So now it's just the actual AD 1.7 updates and then get SOCK to verify/confirm and we're good to go :) 
Bug Or Unwanted Behaviour? 
AD sets EF_TRACER on certain of it's gibs to simulate a green blood trail.

I think it's quite evil to overload an EF_ like that. I'd prefer to see it define a new EF_ instead, so that engines which wish to modify existing effects needn't be concerned about unwanted or unexpected behaviours arising from unintended usage.

I'm just thinking that overloading existing stuff in such a manner is the path to Nehahra. 
is there a nightmare pillar in the 1.5 hub at all? I see it carries over from the previous hub, so i'm confused. 
I'd Tell You But... 
shssss.... it's a secret! 
You Have To Walk In To An Area, And Look Where No One Looks 
I found it by accident as I was falling from above lol. 
Is QSS fully compatible with AD? Regular QS (the one linked in this thread) crashes my whole computer after a few minutes.

Is there any way to make fence textures, sprites, particles and GUI graphics (minus conchars) be rendered using 8-bit alpha instead of 1-bit alpha, so their edges are properly smoothed when using texture filtering? 
@mankrip: Nope 
Fence textures use quake palette color 255 as the transparent color when prefix "{" is supplied in the texture name (just like Half-Life).

Sprites and gui graphics are also the 255 color Quake palette (.lmp files, .gfx, etc.) -- just like any standard assets in the entirety of standard Quake. 
Crashing System 
Argh, that is bad. So QSS doesn't crash your system, and regular QS 0.93.0 does?

I think the most likely way to crash the OS is an OpenGL driver bug or QS doing something invalid with OpenGL. Try launching with -noglsl which will restrict it to OpenGL 1.x features, it might work around the problem. What are your GPU / GPU driver version / OS version? 
I don't know yet if QSS also crashes, but I want to try it.

I'm using Windows 7 on a Dell N5110 laptop, which has an Intel HD Graphics 3000 chipset.

Maybe the cause is the FSAA which I've enabled recently... the performance was good though. 
any qss/qs stability difference is more likely to be down to 64bit vs 32bit, or SDL1 vs SDL2.
the only real engine change is that QSS doesn't do the whole glmesh thing, but instead simply always uses vertex arrays instead of glBegin for mdls. This makes md3s easier to support, and fixes potential crashes on large mdls, but also means that bugs are more likely to crash the drivers rather than less...

QSS is meant to be a super-set of QS. pr_checkextension 0 will disable the extensions that AD (safely) checks for, which is the main difference between the two engines.
FTE should also be able to run it, but AD dev tends to focus on QS instead so it should work but its not well tested (eg: you should probably avoid rtlights).

regarding fence textures - alpha blending has issues when it comes to the depth buffer. Technically speaking, a pixel that contains colour info from two+ blended fragments should have two+ separate depth values - but it can't. This results in halos and weirdness and screwed up depth.
This is why we use alpha testing (even with high-res replacement textures) - it might not look the best but its simply more robust.
There are a few order independent transparency techniques, but they're generally slow and overcomplicated. If you've a software renderer that's generating spans then you could make that support overlapping/nested spans or something fancy, but you'd need to use the same logic for everything including mdls and particles. 
Disabling FSAA on regular QuakeSpasm seems to have fixed it. 
Good To Hear! 
AD 1.7 Patch 1 
* Fixed logic problem with trigger_count and message/message strings
* Fixed trigger_count message problem in ad_ac and ad_sepulcher maps
* Fixed eddict crash in ad_sepulcher by reducing particle setups
* Fixed spelling mistake in ad_chapters for ad_ac portal entrance
* Added missing features (triggers/bbox/explosions) to func_pushable
* Added func_pressureswitch bmodel entity for extra puzzle logic
* Added func_insidevolume to detect player, monster, item & pushables
* Added trigger_doorstate to force func_door entities to open/close state
* Removed invulnerability frames from zombie/zombiek when using shadow axe
* Changed the behaviour of zombie/zombiek to be easier for knockdowns
* Added death message for Gargoyle minions (spawned from minotaurs)
* Moved all player death messages to relevant monster QC files instead
* Fixed brkmondmg entity key on func_breakables to work with projectiles
* Fixed misc_demon not resetting gib model names when switching gib models
* Removed info_stuffcmd as it was open to abuse from malicious mappers
* Added trigger_cdtrack to allow for custom music changes after map load
* Added trigger_skybox to allow for different skybox setups after map load
* Added client check for changed music/skybox to load/quickload functions
* Fixed respawn_time on all items to not instantly spawn, minimum is 1s
* Fixed frozen bug crash for gargoyle/gaunt when waking up from perch/statue
* Fixed monster_firetopboss to cope with skill 3 shambler group attacks!
* Fixed sighttarget to check for health/damage before creating a sight entity
* Added trigger entity state reset to func_button (will override wait value)
* Added Impulse 170 to toggle monster body fade/removal when playing a map
* Fixed player weapon animation issue with idle/fire states being wrong
* Updated DEF file for GTK/Radiant editors with new patch features
* Added FGD file for Jack/Trenchbroom editors by Dan "twitchy" Ellis
* Added V/G models for players weapons from Stas "dwere" Kuznetsov 
Has anyone done anything with presdure plates yet? I see a good coop opportunity there...and pushables. 
Playing through the original first episode of quake after these maps is dissapointing. Even the few of the more fleshed out test maps in Arcane dimensions stand above the episode 1 levels in quake. 
I'd love to see the OG shareware episode given the full AD treatment in a jam or something. One can dream! 
Nice Changes 
Zombie change is really nice, being able to gib them without waiting out the i-frames is much better. Not sure when it was changed but standard grunt enemies seem to now take two shotgun hits like in vanilla rather than the one they did before, much better since they were a bit squishy IMO. 
I think the original game was 2 SG hits before too? I assume that the SG was just slightly nerfed back to original damage. 
The AD shotguns previously did a bit more damage as a tradeoff for being projectile weapons instead of the vanilla hitscan, this was rolled back in v1.70 according to the changelog:
* Removed extra damage (+4 per shot) from projectile shotguns (SG/SSG/WM) 
I can't believe I forgot that - especially as someone who used to complain about the discrepancy a lot. I imagine it was nearly impossible to balance ammo for people who used the impulse command to switch modes. 
Bug Report 
This is probably not the place to report bugs, but I thought I give it a shot. I'm fairly new here, e.g. lurking until now, I normally hang out in the ZDoom forums, please forgive my ignorance.

Anyway, rockets (not grenades) fired at zombies have a blast radius of zero/don't inflict splash damage. If you stand directly in front of a zombie and fire the RL point blank, you won't be harmed, same goes for anything else standing close to it. The only workaround for now is to kill zombies with the GL. 
Just checked for myself and I can confirm it's true. Weird! 
"Playing through the original first episode of quake after these maps is dissapointing. Even the few of the more fleshed out test maps in Arcane dimensions stand above the episode 1 levels in quake."

Well, that stands to reason with 20+ years of tools development behind us. :) They were building the levels with first generation, still being written, tools... 
I wouldn't want to try running AD maps on a Pentium 90 with 8-16 MB of RAM, which was actually one of the better systems you could have had when the original Quake was released. The game had to run on that hardware (usually worse), so there couldn't be many details in the levels.

As great as it is to see what became possible in Quake mapping after all these years, the classic levels remain timeless and really shouldn't be compared to what the community comes up with these days. 
Leptis Magna is one of my favorite AD maps. However, it has way too many encounters where we can just nail the enemies from very far away, which makes the enemies not react, because the enemies will only target the player if the player is close enough, even when the player is attacking them.

If the player is too far away for the monsters to target, the monsters should at least dodge the player's projectiles when they're hit. Get the angle of the projectile's trajectory, and make the monsters run in an orthogonal direction. 
or just run around randomly when hit 
With the Benny Hill Chase music playing. 
Giftmarchar's ad_e1m3 is fully playable, and is different enough from AD schupuler, so should be added. 
AD On Finnish Game Magazine 
I discovered recently that AD was featured in the March 2018 issue of Pelit, (probably) the largest game magazine in the Nordic countries! :D

Brace yourselves as I reminisce: Back in the day, before the days of the Internet, I used to read the magazine a lot in the elementary school (1995-2001) library when I was a wee lad. But as Internet became more widespread, and I grew up, there was a long time I hadn't read the magazine at all.

But once I graduated in 2014 and got a stable job, I picked up reading the magazine once again. And I noticed some of the journalists in the magazine were still around as in the nineties, so there's a lot of oldschool flair in the magazine, with a lot of love for old or retro games.

Some highlights from the article:

"Arcane Dimensions is Quake as it's painted in our memories. The building blocks are largely the same but the action has been beefed up and the architecture is from another world."

"The culmination of the mod is Forgotten Sepulcher. Despite the size everything is thought out and detailed."

"20 years of practice in map design has produced fruit, the seed of which id Software probably didn't realize it had sown."

"I was enchanted by AD from the first bite."

After a brief description of his run of Foggy Bogbottom the author states: "Not every map of the mod is an epic like that of Foggy Bogbottom, but it sums up what AD is at its best: feeling the map, horror, action, exploration, pacing, replayability, a little bit of everything."

(The author seems to like large open maps with exploration with side paths and backtracking.)

"The Triforce of speed, avoidable projectiles, and ever surrounding punishment shines bright"

"The game keeps you on your toes."

"The maps in AD are spiky Rubik's cubes that occasionally lock in places to show something, but are often just skillfully intertwined geometry, art for the sake of art. They evoke a lot of images, but often slip to the realm of the incomprehensible, which since the days of Lovecraft has been a good setting for a nightmarish feeling."

"Quake Champions has shiny graphics and polish, but in attitude AD dominates. Rough is beatiful."

The author states how many of the maps draw inspiration from FPS games throughout the ages and states: "AD is Quake with two decades worth of experience. A map pack, which makes the id maps look like preschooler tinkering. Not that the folks at id were bad at the time but knowhow has simply just increased since then."

"Subjectively I have an unhealthy fixation with the Quake framework. Objectively AD is one of the best things that people have done with the framework."

Screenshot of the article with the text hidden to respect the text copyright:

The text at the beginning says:


In capable hands certain games just keep getting better over the decades. One of them is Quake." 
Thanks Esrael 
Seeing this is very humbling and exciting at the same time, I feel honoured to have contributed to this mod. :) 
Very nice to read this. 
Only skimmed what u wrote and that's great :) 
Sock also just retweeted a blog article by the same author, more about "pixel graphics" in general rather than only talking about AD: 
Quakespasm Not Full AD Experience? 
Im running the later Quakespasm on a mac and looking at this video:

I think Im missing the rain and some "smoke trail" with the torches and grenades maybe.

Am I missing some configuration? Im running a very clean config with just a texture 2 change and some joystick (due to handicap).
Regular Quakespasm does not have those effects. You need to run AD with "quakespasm-spike-admod.exe" to get those special effects. 
I Forgot The Link 
may the gibs be in your favour! 
So, sock himself is using QSS to play AD. This should be enough reason to switch to QSS over regular QS for playing this mod. 
How can I contact you with a question about one of your maps? 
maikfranzxaver -at- gmail -dot- com 
FYI... QSS != quakespasm-spike-admod 
has anyone managed to find all of the new 10 secret triggers in ad_e2m2? there used to be only 3 before it was updated in 1.70. After hours of not finding any new secrets i didn't recognize from 1.60 I noclipped around the entire map still and couldn't find the last 2 anywhere, which is kind of weird since there should be rooms of some kind for them, but there don't seem to be. is this a bug or am i just too stupid to see them? 
nevermind, i'm stupid. 
Shoot The Boards 
Or was that for swampy. If you are having too much trouble, switch to an engine that supports drawing EVERYTHING when outside the level bounds...oh wait you can't because QS/QSS and QuakeDroid are the onlyones that support AD lol. 
is there any way to configure coop to work properly? it keeps dropping packets and a lot of things like bullets and particles aren't showing up on the client. 
The packet size limit of Quakespasm is fixed at compile time (DATAGRAM_MTU 1400), I've tried raising it to 32000 for testing coop and it worked OK, but routers/internet are not required to deliver large packets from what I understand.

try Quakespasm-Spike; it has a new network protocol which is supposed to be better for coop: 
thanks, the datagram thing totally worked.
there's one weird quirk though, maybe you can tell me what causes it.

most maps load on client, but synchronization problems get really bad as they get bigger and water of any type is completely unrendered. sepulcher doesnt load at all on client, host says "sz_getspace: overflow" when client is trying to connect. adjusting r_wateralpha once on client makes the water reappear, performance is way better and sepulcher actually loads, but you have to do it every time after connecting. lava and portals seem to be unaffected by whatever is causing this. 
thanks, the datagram thing totally worked.

most maps load on client, but synchronization problems get really bad as they get bigger and water of any type is completely unrendered.
Not sure what's going on with the water, or synchronization problems in general (could be packets are being dropped).

Turning off AD's particles ("temp1 0" in ad/quake.rc) is a good idea because each one is an entity and they generate a lot of network traffic.
I think if you use QS-Spike they no longer use entities, but I'm not 100% sure.

sz_getspace: overflow - This is the "signon buffer overflowed" message. Not sure why it would show up in coop but not singleplayer, maybe there is some extra info that gets sent in coop for some reason.

Quakespasm-spike should have this limit removed entirely so that would be what I would recommend trying next. So what made the "sz_getspace: overflow" error go away again, wouldn't just be changing the r_wateralpha cvar on the client? 
i made a mistake. i tested it at least a dozen times and it always worked after adjusting it, and never when i didn't. but apparently that was just coincidence.

once i tried connecting 3 times in a row without changing anything and it actually connected on the third, but i haven't been able to replicate that again and now it either connects first try or never until i restart everything. then i was sure it was related to connection quality, since it seemed to always work on a wired connection and only sometimes on wireless and there was a huge difference in network performance, but then it eventually refused to connect on a wired connection aswell, with the same overflow error.

i also don't really understand whats going on with the water, there are 3 different scenarios for the client. either it is completely invisible, but if you check r_wateralpha it has a value that should be visible. sometimes it is totally opaque and r_wateralpha reflects that accurately with a 1, and other times it simply carries over the value from the previously loaded map. sepulcher is supposed to have 0.6, and start has 0.65, so the client will sometimes have 0.65 while the host has 0.6 when i changed the level after connecting.

i tried spikes version but that has the exact same problem, only worse for some reason. it happens for much smaller maps like magna at a rate comparable to sepulcher in regular quakespasm with the limit removed.

can the signon buffer size be increased as easily as the packet size limit? i'd like to test that in my quakespasm build to see if it makes a difference. 
Sz_getspace: Overflow 
With QSS as a server, set sv_gameplayfix_spawnbeforethinks 1. This prevents PlayerPreThink etc getting called on player entities that have not actually been spawned yet, thereby preventing AD from spamming at the worst possible time.
You should then be able to connect just fine, every time.

However, I fucked up such that the above cvar doesn't do its job on map changes. Reconnecting will work fine until the next map change, thankfully most AD maps have shotgun starts so this shouldn't be too annoying beyond the hassle of it.

the overflow comes from spammed v_cshift stuffcmds (somewhere inside PlayerPostThink) to players that haven't even been ClientConnected yet, this then overflows the waiting signon data.
Normally I'd say its just an engine bug, but it goes all the way back to vanilla (so applies to more than just QS[S]) and the general policy is to not break other mods that actually depend on weird legacy behaviour (hence the gameplayfix cvar defaulting to 0). 
@Spike @sock 
the overflow comes from spammed v_cshift stuffcmds (somewhere inside PlayerPostThink) to players that haven't even been ClientConnected yet,

It looks like like it's coming from this ResetDebuffSystem() call (the internals of that do the stuffcmd unconditionally.)

// Core debuff function, run every frame from client.qc
void() ClientDeBuff =
// If player is dead or intermission running, turn everything off
if (intermission_running > 0 || < 1) {

Probably adding a (self.flags & FL_CLIENT) check should do the trick? 
@ericw @Spike 
yup, totally does the trick.

thanks for the help, both of you :) 
why are some of them so janky and others just fine? most of them you clip into a little bit like the two in start, very few are completely fine like the first on tfuma, and others are really bad making you jump up and down like the second one on crucial. 
Speeds And Clip Brushes 
First, make sure you aren't playing with max fps set higher than 72 (60 might be more consistent). Quake has a long standing physics bug that isn't framerate dependent.

The clipping might have to do with making a func_plat that also includes clip brushes. Some elevators have invisible brushes to make them into a solid rectangular box so players don't get trapped under the lip and get their heads bonked. 
A "smooth out stair step ups" engine change may also resolve this. In view.c:

Change "oldz += steptime * 80;" to "oldz += steptime * 160;" and a lot of elevator jankiness goes away.

This change is in Bengt Jardrup's engine, but what's not clear is how he knew to make the change nor where he got the figure of 160 from. 
Elevators (and ramps) that are inside a trigger_fog or other trigger that does a stuffcmd every frame defeats the movement smoothing.

I debugged it a bit and cl.onground was getting set to false after each stuffcmd, which disabled the smoothing, but I didn't track down how cl.onground is linked to the stuffcmd-ing. Quakespasm-Spike's new protocol avoids this, but I'm not sure what change is responsible. Do you know what's going on, Spike?

test cases:


temp1 0 # enable the stuffcmds inside trigger_fog
map ad_swampy.bsp
setpos -67 1368 840


temp1 2048 #this disables the stuffcmds inside trigger_fog
map ad_swampy.bsp
setpos -67 1368 840

you need to walk off the plat and step back on. Look at the floor (plat surface) to see the jittering. You might have to ride the elevator a few times to see it jitter, but the "smooth" case is always smooth. 
Ok, did a bit more debugging (quakespasm / protocol 666), and it seems the client gets a net message with just svc_stufftext, and no svc_clientdata. onground gets set to false on every received network message unless there is svc_clientdata in it, so that is how the stuffcmd causes the stairstep smoothing to be reset. Not sure about the bigger picture like why does PF_stuffcmd result in a standalone net message without a svc_clientdata?

I guess the best solution assuming qc changes would be to use fitzquake's built in fog interpolation over time, which would avoid spamming the network with fog changes. 
svc_clientdata is normally present in every single _unreliable_ packet (the exception being nop packets).
Unlike Quakeworld, in NQ all reliable data (like stuffcmds) is sent in separate packets. hence why you're getting a packet that contains only a stuffcmd. This is true even for DPP7 and QSS.

There really is nothing specific to stuffcmd here. there are many other ways to trigger small reliables without svc_clientdatas.

FTE/QSS's network protocol considers the onground flag to be part of entity state, and doesn't even use svc_clientdata any more.
I don't recall any particular reason why you can't just do similar, and set/clear it only on reception of svc_clientdata (and CL_ClearState). I probably ought to do just that in QSS. Flagging the player as offground can affect things like bobbing, but its better to make sure any such unwanted effects are disabled by map changes, pause, or whatever, instead of potentially breaking on random reliables. 
Thanks Again Everyone 
i changed it to 160 and it's smooth as butter now.

completely unrelated, my save file somehow got corrupted in the most bizarre way i have ever seen. all the detail prop models have been shuffled. lit candles are now shell boxes, unlit candles are fire, and fire is a health kit. the zombie knights are invisible except for their swords which attack you without any sort of animation, and the shadow axe is duplicated and doesn't disappear when picked up. everything goes back to normal when you change level or restart.

would be super impressed if someone could explain how this might have happened. have a look at it yourself if you're curious, there's even more weird shit like the fire that gets abducted into the ceiling immediately. 
Edict List Offset By 1 
Quake stores all the models in an edict list on map load (or was it game start, whatever). If you load a saved game in a different mod or different version, the edict list could be different amd thus the referenced model for each object is off from where it should be in the list. 
Thanks! That explains everything. set/clearing cl.onground only on reception of svc_clientdata sounds like a reasonable change. 
it has nothing to do with edicts.
its the model indexes. precaching models in a different order can and will result in the model indexes referring to different models.

there are all sorts of ways to trigger the issue, from updating a mod or map between saving+loading, to mods that just use non-deterministic precaches such that they all get renumbered on reload.
If the mod ever uses random() in order to decide which model to precache then the mod is buggy.

FTE+DP+QSS are meant to write out the precache list so that it can be restored properly afterwards, which should allow non-deterministic mods to reload games properly.
Don't expect to be able to fix the game by just loading your existing save with one of those engines - if the saved game doesn't include the data then it'll have to be made up somehow - which means guessed, which means buggy. 
AD Co-op? 
I would really like to know if there is a way to play Arcane Dimensions (v.1.70 patch 1) in co-op using Quakespasm (0.93.0). I tried to make it work but I'm always getting some kind of connection problem message. Is there a tutorial for that anywhere? 
Scroll up a bit to #649, I asked the same thing a few days ago.

Right now you either need to compile Quakespasm and AD with the minor changes to the source code mentioned above, or use Spike's version of Quakespasm (QSS) and set "sv_gameplayfix_spawnbeforethinks 1" in the console. If you're going to play over internet I would recommend just going with QSS, it will perform much better. 
What Does The Angry Spawnflag Do? 
The documentation and editor description led me to believe it makes the entity aware of the player right away regardless of distance and sight obstruction, which is exactly what I need for my map. I tested it with multiple monsters and it doesn't seem to make any difference at all, flagged entities are still idling until attacked or within the detection radius. 
I think you need to specifically trigger them IIRC. 
it's only useful when they spawn in. 
It's funny that just searching for "serpent runekey" brought me here. Anyway, thanks for the hints, they were much appreciated. I felt like an idiot after finally finding the secret. I tried so many things. 
Possible to add monsters to Bastion, Marcher, and Masque to turn them into AD maps? 
Hey anyone know if/when/how sock's new map is getting released? The one with the huge sword piece. 
Issue With Ad_s1m1 The Slipgate Conundrum 
While I am not sure if this is an issue or normal behavior of the map, but I recently noticed this playing AD with QuakeSPASM 0.93: once you finish ad_s1m1, you are being teleported on Castle of the Damned map... Shouldn't it teleport the player back to Episode map? 
I think it's intended. It does the same for me in Qrack. I believe Sock made the map as an alternate for the original e1m1 not ad_e1m1. 
Secret Hunting In Foggy Bogbottom 
I'm pretty adamant about 100% completion in these maps since I'm having such a great time and I want to explore everything. I'm trying to find the final tome in ad_swampy. I know where it is. I cheated and noclipped through a door that I wasn't able to unlock in order to see if I could reverse engineer the secret, but I can't.

I'm trying to get inside here:

It seems like the only doors that lead into the room are locked from within. Can I get a hint as to what I need to do next? I was thinking that everything would come together once I got the eighth tome and that I'd be able to easily get the purple and blood keys after, but I can't figure it out after wandering for what seems like hours. 
You need a silver key to get behind these doors, the sk door is located at the final outdoor/church area.

If you dont mind some spoilers, there is a YT video where all tomes are found:

Anyway, thx for playing! 
It looks like the trick is in the blood key. In the video, it's visible at 25:55 when the player breaks the wall adjacent to the red armor. However, I don't have the blood key in my inventory and I was already inside that room. I restarted the map and noclipped to that room to see if the blood key would be there but it's not. At first I thought that maybe the key only spawns when triggered by some event just like the tomes but I figured that all the keys are probably already in position at map start.

In any case, why wouldn't the key be there for me if I played through the entire map normally? Is it possible for something to have bugged out on my end?

Also I think that the map is a masterpiece. I hope that I can make something even half as good some day. I had a ton of fun playing through it so far. 
Wait A Moment 
The video i linked to is the ad1.42 version of swampy.
I changed some secrets in later versions, added features
due to mod updates/addons and general wtf.

The blood key is now located high above

Sorry for the confusion..

I personally think the first version is best,
i shouldve only added the fishing ogre... :) 
Luckily sock was kind enough to show me how to find the key a little earlier on stream. Finally got the rune legitimately as well as the purple key secret (thanks to sock as well). I put more time into this map alone probably more than most games overall, but I enjoyed every second of it. This was a fantastic map and one of my favorites by far. The Arcane features made it all the more enjoyable. I'll be replaying this one a lot going forward.

Speaking of fishing ogres, I really wanted that 100% completion but I couldn't bring myself to attack the passive ones. I especially liked the one who was fishing for the ring of shadows. The level of detail in this map was amazing. 
You've inspired me to play this yet again. I've never completed it. 
It might not be for everyone but the level of detail and the interconnectedness were top notch. I'm not sure how far you got but there is also a good amount of variation within the map - swamp, church with white bricks, rooftops, library, and secrets galore. I think it's exemplary in terms of layout and it's a template for me to work towards in terms of design and detail, especially regarding how organic it felt environmentally. 
Probably one of the best base maps that I'll ever play.

So close to perfect completion. I had to replay this one because I completely forgot about the circuit boards and I didn't even know that there was a rune in this map until discussing it with Spud.

Usually nothing beats experiencing an amazing game or map for the first time but this managed to be even more fun playing through again. I've already replayed most of Swampy a few times in order to try and learn about design and flow, and also because it was so much fun, but the first experience was still something else. All of these maps are phenomenal so far though so I will be revisiting all of them plenty going forward.

Finished Necro Keep as well and in the process of secret hunting. I only wish that there was some indication as to whether or not there was a rune in certain maps. Now I'm never too sure whether I should invest a lot of time trying to get the secrets or just move on the for the time being in lieu of no runes being present within the map.

Necro Keep was really fun due to the difficulty level and it had a great atmosphere. The fog hovering above the ground looked great and it isn't something that I've seen before in a map. I liked the Blood style beginning, crawling out of my grave. I dig the maps that have you starting in an unorthodox fashion instead of the usual slipgate arrival. 
Hub 1 Done 
I finished the main hub and there's not much more praise that I can add. This is definitely one of the greatest single player campaigns that I've ever played and the most fun that I've had with a game in a while. The final map that I played was ad_mountain (aside from ad_end of course) and it was a hell of a finale. The phantom knight that guides you towards the rune was amazing. I never would've imagined that features like that would have made it into a game this old, and yet it doesn't clash with any of the original aesthetics or design.

The talent in this community is astronomical. These maps serve as a template for what I'd like to achieve some day. I've already been replaying some of these maps but I will be revisiting them quite often in the future not just for inspiration, but also for enjoyment. There are still some secrets that I need to find. For now, I'm glad that there's a whole new set of maps for me to play in the next hub.

I'll try to keep my enthusiasm to myself next time since I'm kind of late to the party and I'm mostly talking to myself. I think it's already safe to say that the next set of maps is going to blow me away, so props to everyone who contributed to those maps as well. 
I still haven't finished all of the original content and it's a good reminder to set aside some time and complete these!

Don't forget Xmas Jam and some of the stand alone maps too! 
Thanks for the tip - I know that Grendel's Blade is another quality Arcane map and I also know that Redfield has a standalone Egyptian themed one as well. Xmas Jam sounds good although I might save that one for Christmas this year. It'll make for a nice present. 
Really wonderful maps guys

Would you guys ever consider looking at the maps you have an arrange them in a hexen fashion, with the maps having multiple entrances and exits and puzzle items too like in hexen.

Perhaps a main hub map, split into Realms and group the maps by theme first

Future Dimensions
Medieval Dimensions
Arcane Dimensions

Once they have been arranged in an order you are happy with you could place multiple exit and entrance points for each map to link them with a final boss somewhere.

In each Dimension put puzzle items that correlate to another dimension so you have to back track.

Once you defeat a boss in each dimension you could open up the final dimension, also you could hide one legendary version of each weapon in the maps to encourage people to search for the secrets, and use the runes to unlock the secret true end boss who is stupidly hard.

You have some great assets with these maps and this mod could become much more with some well thought out arrangement. 
Hexen Style Hubs 
This is possible in AD but the effort involved in making this with the current maps would not be worth it. Would be a lot of work and testing. Unless you are doing a story-based game, this mechanic doesn't really buy you anything as far as game play. 
I think the main reason that hexen2 is a dead game is that annoying hub thing. Nobody likes to go in and out a level several times searching for what to do next. It's too confusing, people had to look for walkthroughs on the internet to finish the game, most of people didn't even finish it. Please don't bring it to Quake.

It's sad because i love the medieval theme and the enemies are great... Hexen2 would be such a better game with regular maps (one entrance/one exit) like Quake. 
Nobody likes to go in and out a level several times searching for what to do next

Metroid Prime would like a word with you.

The concept of revisiting levels multiple times throughout a game is only as good or as bad as the designer(s) make it. 
I was going to leave that un-responded, but yeah:

Getting lost and not knowing where to go is a problem in big maps as much as hubs. And even in small maps if they are confusing enough. In all cases, good design can guide the player and make sure they know where to go. 
depends how deep you want to go as well

Do you want the dimensions to have cross dimension puzzles, or should the dimensions puzzles just be confined to the amount of maps that make that dimension?

It wouldn't hurt to try link up 3-4 military base type maps as a trial, also have the added bonus of placing higher level monsters in the later stages.

I find it fun remembering where a puzzle piece could potentially go over a few maps and seeing how they snake between each other and open up into new areas is fun, that moment when you finally get into that room you could see and the light bulb moment is always good.

You also have the added bonus of using harder monsters from the start in later stages and don't have to worry about making a "startup stage" where you build up weapons.

This can be further expanded by making some dimensions just hard to begin with, forcing you into other dimensions to get started.

and just having super legendary versions of the weapons would really give the player a drive to search the maps, especially if the runes unlocked the real boss, which naturally will be easier if you have the super weapons.

Come on it's worth a try, just put one dimension together and see how it goes. 
just put one dimension together and see how it goes.

i think youre underestimating the amount of time this sort of project would take.

what you want greatly differs from the design goals sock had for this and seems like the perfect time for you to learn how to map. that way you can do this all yourself and show us how great it could be. 
I just might.

i noticed it already had the hub map tools on the AD page, so no one will mind if i load up some maps and try string them together, purely for testing reasons, guage reactions to this gameplay type.

How do i get the textures to load though when opening the AD map files? i don't know where to get the wad files for it.

I was thinking using the map with the laser to access the boss for the future dimension, except you would need to search that map and 2 other base styled maps for the 3 parts you would need to operate the laser.

That seems like a simple enough plan. 
Well since somebody else bumped the thread this time, I guess I'll jump on the opportunity to post about my additional experiences. I'm playing through the second hub right now. I've played a few of these maps in advance after sock had suggested them to me a while back. I replayed them anyway and I had fun 100 percenting them.

Zendar was interesting because I played the standalone version first. I remember thinking that it was an amazing map that would've been made better by the addition of being able to traverse the rooftops in some areas. Lo and behold, the Arcane version added this in. There's one very tiny courtyard in particular where the roof is just begging to be explored, but that wasn't possible in the original map.

I think that I've played Arcane Adamantine 4 or 5 times now and it was still just as impressive and fun as the first time. It has a really interesting layout and it's really impressive in terms of all the circular brush work from the pipes that make up the playable area to the large spiral staircases.

Leptis Magna was my most recent adventure and what a map it was. In a way, it feels like the answer to or the sister map of Foggy Bogbottom. Pretty huge map with an awesome distinct atmosphere accentuated by the lore. This is another example of a map being essentially an adventure game in itself. Ionous and Pulsar did such a phenomenal one with this. I had to ask for help with finding many of the secrets but even with a guide for several of the final secrets, I couldn't believe that I clocked in over 2 hours in this map by the time I 100 percented it. There was one glitched scrag that I couldn't kill but otherwise here is the result of a play through that spanned several days:

I have a few more maps to go but I'm taking my sweet time in order to savor the experience. Aside from the quality of the maps, I love the additions to the game play that the mod adds. I like the new shotgun mechanics as it makes the regular shotgun less like a sniper rifle. The new monsters are good additions too. The ambient sound effects in particular help to create more lifelike and believable worlds with monster groans and creaking wooden structures. I've been replaying some id1 user maps with Arcane loaded up and it's a ton of fun. 
One major headache you will come across - especially for someone not terribly experienced with all this quake modding bojangles - is that the quake engine's ability to transfer data between levels is pretty awful.

Beyond retaining a few things relating to player inventory (weapons, ammo, runes etc.), you'll have to write QC that packs and unpacks bits in the "parm" variables and a few others like "temp1".

For AD maps which all have hundreds of monsters, you'll need to accept that every time you revisit a map, the monsters will all have to be pretty much reset to their starting state. You could preserve the (dead / not dead) state of a few important boss monsters maybe, but good luck doing much beyond that.

And unless you somehow magically have hundreds of bits to spare on storing the state of all AD's secret areas, you'll have to accept they'll reset too.

I haven't touched on the topic of savegame abuse to do this - that's something I haven't really looked at. 
oh that pretty much puts a stop to that if its hopeless at retaining data between levels. 
the other option is just paste 3 maps together...

but that will probably hit the limits 
A far better project would be to create a single, original map with a layout designed to create the "hub" gameplay you are looking for.

Bolting multiple AD maps together into a single bsp seems a bit pointless. 
There's one very tiny courtyard in particular where the roof is just begging to be explored, but that wasn't possible in the original map.

No, it was possible in the original. 
"A far better project would be to create a single, original map with a layout designed to create the "hub" gameplay you are looking for."

Not sure how it worked but I think Rubicon Rumble Pack had an autosave feature that would help for this. 
@kinn And Yet Another Anon 
AD does has a system to save variables across savegames/loads as of version 1.7

Scroll down to Map Variables.

This is a new system which allows for mappers to update, query or toggle variables that can be used to trigger events. The variables are stored in the player save file and can work across multiple maps or be used in a hub map to record progress for an episode.

The test map shows all of the map variables as a wall of buttons on one side of the map and the other side is for specific examples of how to query, update or toggle values. There is no exact use for this system, its really up to the mapper to use it however they want.
Terror Fuma 
As I've mentioned, almost every Arcane map feels like a self-contained adventure game and Terror Fuma helps to especially drive that point home. I didn't expect to be blown away by a base map so soon after playing ad_crucial but this map left me stunned. The attention to detail was off the charts. The poison theme was not just reflected in the environment but also in the monsters themselves. It seems that this map also made use of Arcane features that I had not seen in previous mod maps, or at least the execution was a bit different.

I knew that I was in for something amazing from the very start when the drop ship came flying in. The glass archway gives you a beautiful view of the outside area and the skybox. The map felt alive with all of the infighting going on between the grunts and some of the other monsters such as the spiders. It's different from the usual infighting that the player can normally induce since it happens without any play involvement. Nothing special for a modern game but to see this in Quake was a treat.

The flow of the map was unusual in that it afforded the player a great degree of freedom. After accessing the rooftop, I felt like I had stumbled upon some crazy secret. It took me some time in order to decide where I wanted to drop down. None of my decisions ever broke the map though, even if I did end up grabbing keys in the nonstandard order. The combat on skill 2 hit the sweet spot for me with some challenging encounters, but fights never once felt unfair.

This could very well have been a standalone sci-fi adventure game. Something about the atmosphere or execution reminded me vaguely of Prey 2006, and I loved that aspect about it. People who complain about long maps will enjoy this one because even when playing slowly and attempting to 100%, I came in at under an hour. Each subsequent AD map that I play never ceases to amaze me. 
This never occurred to me... Still doesn't.

I came in at under an hour.
A lot of AD maps are this long if not longer. 
Yes I know, I haven't looked at the code, but I assume it will just be packing a limited number of bits in variables such as temp1 and the parms.

The ideal hub support would let you save any amount of state info from all levels in the game, including state of all monsters, secrets etc. Not possible with the above method. 
I know it must be getting annoying by now sorry about that, but you have some quality maps and they are quite time consuming to make so why not make the most of it,

some great base maps in particular could be the starting points to create 4 mini eps and final boss map like in the OG quake game, it would really be good to see a collection of maps build of each others difficulty and remove startup parts where you just fight grunts for a double barrel.

The monster and polish and just in general is excellent quality and if quake 2 was never released i would consider this quake 2 tbh, its knocks the socks of any 90's expansion pack. 
Thanks for all the kind words man. Terror Fuma started life as a very different kind of map, it was going to be a megamix of all the E1M1 style maps (hence why the bit in the beginning looks a lot like the first bit of Doom 2).
Sock persuaded me to make something more unique as AD already had a bunch of remake maps. Some of the cooler ideas were by EricW, he made the spaceship flyover and the tank ambush for example. Sock made a bunch of really cool unique textures too (all the flashy new monitors and some nice wall textures etc).
One of the design goals I set out with was to make the map very non-linear. Originally you started on the roof of the map and the spaceship would fly away. The roof was never going to have gameplay though and Sock suggested that it become a super-secret, so I spent several days tidying up the shitty brushwork so it would look nice, EricW made the super cool rising spiral staircase...

The map took forever to make and really wouldn't be quite as special if it wasn't for Eric, Sock and the rest of the team and their input. :) 
The ideal hub support would let you save any amount of state info from all levels in the game, including state of all monsters, secrets etc. Not possible with the above method.

Already have that on my hard drive since 2014.

Takes the "QUAKE2" modification of the Q1 engine in the Carmack source release that stores the state of everything in a level.

Removes the requirement for an irregular progs.dat, instead depends on certain named functions in the progs.dat.

And instead of saving the states of all levels in a freaking folder, Mark V internally has pak read, write, edit, compress.

So a save game with such isn't some messy folder requiring a whole damn folder for every save game but a single file .pak containing a save game for each level (.sav.pak or something?)

But I don't see it making it into the "real world" anytime soon because it would require some major serious single player development to make it worthwhile --- i.e. probably an episode that depended on the feature.

And beyond that, it is difficult to imagine a Quake episode that could make good use of re-entrant levels.

So it would likely be just another unused engine feature in an engine. 
I feel like the feature would just be best used in Quake for maps that didn't want to break limits but still wanted to be big. Having some load points that you could go back and forth through to bring back keys etc. for one "map" (that is actually several maps).

Of course, now that we're just making huge, 200+ monster maps that take hours to complete i think it'd be less desirable a feature to have. Could still be neat to have for a few niche cases though... 
Backtracking Through A Graveyard 
Sounds like the opposite of fun 
Just a heads up the regarding the terra level in co-op the circuit boards will not respawn 
Thanks for the clarification. So the AD stuff seems like it would work for switches and keys. Very limited usage overall. 
Thanks for the insights into the design process. I think that dumptruck mentioned doing some interviews with mappers and I've been looking forward to it. In the meantime, I've been getting some great tidbits from sock, ionous, and now you as to how these maps were approached. It will help me think about how I approach mapping going forward. It seems to be a common theme that the player spawn location changes as the map develops.

I've already started another play through of the map since last finishing it. The game play is fun but it's also nice to just go back and admire all of the details that went into the map. The time that it took to make paid off extremely well in the end because this has been a highlight for me in terms of single player shooters, not just as a Quake map. 
Found Something Funny Today... 
I was nose deep in ModDB's dark corners earlier when I stumbled upon this umpteenth E1M1 remix for Doom. Yeah, I know, but hold on, the funny part is coming...

Excerpt from the map description: Some areas are heavily inspired by ad_e1m1 from Arcane Dimensions mod for Quake. Special thanks to them for inspiration!!!

So in other words, here we have a Doom map that is a remix of a Quake map that already was a remix of a Doom map! Ouroboros much?

Haven't tried it yet so I can't judge its quality. I just thought it should be mentioned here. 
Bloody Hell! 
I guess I missed this when it came out, or didn't play it all for some reason. So far I've played through a few of the maps on normal, and there are some fucking corkers in there. Standouts so far have been the gorgeous floating arabianish winter palace with the huge boss encounter, and the firetop mountain level, which had some really fun combats in it (the Cthon setup was particularly memorable).

There's just too much to comment on, so I'll try and make more of an effort when I've played it all, but it's incredible so far, so thanks to Sock and all the others involved for making such a fun addon. 
And when you're done with all the AD maps (don't forget the test maps, some are very nice), there are some cool custom levels for AD as well. Have fun! 
Awesome To See Than Enjoy This 
Basically the inspiration for me learning Quake mapping. 
I Feel The Same 
Plumbers Don't Wear Ties 
Was probably one of the greatest inspirations for me before AD came along. 
Is there like a list out there of AD addons?
there are some maps not present in quaddicted, like office assault, grendel's blade and paradise sickness. 
Tronyn did a ranking of AD maps recently but I doubt it's up to date.

My one an only AD map is ranked pretty low. :( Ranking is fucking subjective anyway. :( 
Considering the other maps on that list that are also ranked low, seems more like it's indicative of the exceptional quality of the top ranked maps rather than the poor quality of the low ranked ones. ad_dm5 was awesome. No love for the Christmas jam maps but of course the quality wasn't going to be through the roof given the constraints.

Bottom line - ranks don't matter. I enjoyed your AD map anyway. 
Here is a slightly more complete listing (Tronyn missed mine, among others):

Here's another one that hasn't been added to Quaddicted: 
Question For Sock 
are yuo releasing a second episode of AD?

Some very nice pics can be found on the net:

with hope 
#1 is Bal's WIP Xmasjam2 map
#2 is mfx's long running WIP space map
#3 is sock's current WIP map he's streaming a lot of

Pretty sure none of the related to a second episode. 
#1 Is Giftmacher. 
Oh Yeah. 
I get them confused. 
Ooh Giftmacher 
looks cool!
Same with Sock, obvs 
Found On Twitter 
Does killing the 8 green spawns in Sepulcher do anything? 
Besides increasing your killcount, no. 
AD still has the double megahealth rot bug. 
Who Said Its A Bug? 
By the way, there's a more elegant way to fix that, without adding an extra entity. 
I'm finally finishing up the second hub with only Sepulcher left after just beating ad_azad. I don't know what else to say aside from that it was brilliant. I loved the theme and the level of detail was mind blowing. Even something as simple as accumulated snow on the some of the steps outdoors added so much to the map.

The breakables helped the world feel alive and I really enjoyed the way that they were employed this time. Instead of just having breakable walls and pieces of wood, some major set pieces were destructible. I was pleasantly surprised when the bridge in front of the silver key lock collapsed under me after being attacked by a death knight. Pillars breaking during the four stoneman ambush and during the final boss made the fights more intense with nothing to hide behind.

I also liked how the destructibles were part of the progression like the iron wood that needed to be smashed with the mine cart. The combat was really enjoyable although the tiny room with the four stone death knights that ambush you got me several times. I didn't exactly save scum but it still felt scummy saving the game beforehand and attempting that fight a few times when I already knew what to expect.

I finished with 6/10 secrets but just like every other AD map, I'm going to attempt the 100% clear. The bruskwork was incredible and it seems like an insane amount of time must have gone into the details. I loved some of the amorphous architecture as well like the wooden platforms haphazardly arranged and supported in the room with the mine carts. Stuff like this is inspiring and I'm always curious as to how much of this was implemented or how certain ideas were conceived. My only complaint was that the map wasn't longer since I enjoyed it so much but hopefully I will squeeze a lot more time out of it as I search for the rust key and the remaining secrets. 
I'm trying to use ad_1_7p1_gtk.def for GtkRadiant, but in the properties of the entities I see basically only the angle, the model and the noise. Maybe someone has a normal ENT file? 
Is there any chance that we can get access to the wads used for these maps? I know that many were custom and/or modified by sock and others but I'm interested in some of these themes and I'm having trouble matching them. 
You can just open up the BSP's with Texmex and then save to .wad. 
Thx again.

„although the tiny room with the four stone death knights that ambush you got me several times. I didn't exactly save scum but it still felt scummy saving the game beforehand and attempting that fight a few times when I already knew what to expect.“

This is the Tronyn moment. It is doable, but very random and hard.
I toned this encounter down a lot with AD 1.7, previous setup was just mad and cruel. 
Leptis Magna 
Leptis Magna is one of my favorite maps in AD and I'm playing through it a third time atm, partly to find more of those pesky little secrets.

Anyway, playing through it on Nightmare for the first time and either I suck or there is way too little ammo in it on this difficulty level. For instance, my char has 3 rockets left and nothing else when the next fight is all those statues in the gold lock area. But I've been out of ammo for most the other half of the map. Once or twice it is a bit exciting as I have to rush past a bunch of monsters in order to get ammo to actually kill them, but in the long run it is frustrating rather than fun really. Perhaps Nightmare is balanced around the player always trying to get monsters to infight? Not sure what I could have done differently, but I think I'll play it on Hard after this playthrough.

Looking forward to the upcoming update of AD btw. I'm sure it will be epic. 
Leptis Is Hard On Hard. 
But it is doable. 
It's Hard 
Yes, pretty sure I played it on hard the last time and I had no issues with ammo or anything else then. The last fight was rather tough, but you can thankfully cheese it. 
We didn’t test AD_magna on nightmare. I’m sure it’s woefully unfair. 
Leptis On Nightmare 
I'm not a Quake master by any mean, but...


I already knew the map quite well, obviously, but did not even come close to be without ammo... 
As I said, I might very well suck. Can it be secrets? I have a hard time finding secrets i Leptis Magna - think I have 7/25. Perhaps missing out on a lot of ammo that way. 
Ammo Is Tight But Not Unreasonable 
I last played it in Nightmare a while ago and I remember tight situations but not desperate ones. Although you might be right about secrets, I found 24/25 and they probably helped as they include some valuable weapons and power-ups. 
Wow! Now This Is Strange... 
...after having completed my NM run yesterday, I fired up Leptis Magna again to go hunting for the last 2 secrets I had missed (I had previously found all of them several times over). My last quicksave was just before the last 5 or so enemies, I loaded that, killed the boys and got back upstairs to see what I had missed.
I retracked exactly the intended route and I came to the red key room, and naturally that was empty (I already found the secret of LM during the main run, doing the whole routine until teh collapse). I proceeded to the red door expecting to find the boulder blocking the path, but found the closed red door instead and the room intact, praying knights an' all! How come? Has anybody experienced the same before? 
Hmmm... No. 
I'm almost certain I misremembred my first run. I probably picked up the red key, saved, went to the red room and got killed afterwards. When I reloaded I must have forgot to go to the red room. Problem solved(an edit function would be great). 
Nightmare Revisited 
OK, so I replayed Leptis Magna from the start on nightmare and this time I had no issues with ammo, which is a bit weird as I basically played it the same way. So it seems rather well balanced when it comes to ammo and I must have messed it up somehow the previous play.

It's such a wonderful map. I love how it comes up with surprises almost throughout the entire level and the secrets are just amazing as well.

@the silent, I'd love to see a 100% demo of the map. 
Faster Than Recording One... 
Ah, thanks! I thought I had searched on YouTube, but apparently not. 
One Last Secret 
The video was of course very helpful and it was nice to finally find all three tomes so I could access the keys. I really like how dynamic the map is, with sections opening up, previously walled alcoves being accessible etc.

But I still have one secret left and hope someone can help me with that. In the very last room there is an alcove you can jump into and shoot a red star on the wall, but there's still one red star remaining and I can't locate it. Annoying to have a single secret left... 
Same Thing, Different Corner 
The setup is symmetric with respect to the center of the room :) 
WTF, I had already looked there. Guess it would be easier if I upped the brightness a bit when looking for secrets. Anyway, thanks, now I can rest in peace. 
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