Public Service Announcement
I am the person formerly active in this community as goldenboy.
Post #270 was not written by me.
Thankfully a friend e-mailed me about this, otherwise I wouldn't even have known that someone abused my old nick for fakenicking and trolling.
I don't post from proxy servers. I have not been active in the Quake community for a long time now.
Get your wits together, you have been trolled. Probably someone who has some undying beef with me.
For the record, I think your mod is cool, Sock.
Public Service Announcement
I am the person formerly active here as goldenboy.
Post #293 was not written by me.
At least this time the troll didn't use my nick. Please refer to my more detailed answer here:
In short, someone is fakenicking and shitposting, using my old nick and who knows how many others.
Thanks to the people who alerted me to this.
Yeah I need to reiterate how much I'm liking the TBS in this, it no longer feels like shells are for easy enemies or saving nails / rockets / cells, it feels like the TBS is a primary choice in it's own right.
* Changed all monsters to use same sound channel for pain/death sounds
* Added spawnflags option to monster_golem for melee/stomp version only
* Added special gib sound for stone enemies (just a pile of rubble)
* Changed infighting formula (ai_combat.qc) to be closer to id setup
* Changed icegolem boss to ignore damage before trigger wakeup
* Fixed compiler error in mon_bossicegolem.qc function iceg_tranB13
* Fixed monster_shalrath not removing voreball attachment when in pain
what will happen with ad_sepulcher?
unfortunatelly it's canceled
Thats Rather Unfortunate
No Ad_sepulcher ??? :-(
That's truly unfortunate to hear...it looked like it was well on its way...
Maybe GiftMacher has plans to finish it as a separate release? This was originally his e1m3 remake map right?
Seems Like The Drama Got To Him.
That really is a shame. I was looking forward to playing that map.
Bonus points go to ad_magna for utilizing pos1 in breakables to manipulate the particle colors.
Unofficial Fan Patch 1
Download and extract to your AD 1.5 folder
* Fixed misc bugs and inconveniences in ad_chapters
* Added new map (ad_e1m3) to the MOD
Call me whatever the fuck you want.
It's a (perfectly playable) beta of ad_e1m3 from April this year that was previously posted in Screenshots & Betas. If G1ftmacher will want to use a newer version I will be happy to repack and resubmit.
inconveniences in ad_chapters
This re-introduces the issue to get stuck behind the torch on the right side of the entrance to the lost swamp lands.
The source file of current state was released, I'm sure someone...ahem...would be willing to tweak it and finish it and code anything bonus that is used.
unfortunatelly it's canceled
Is that the official line then?
If we could get the monsters that were going to come with it at least, that'd be a nice treat. Or perhaps those are what's holding it up.
My poor, poor mangled .fgd file...
Sock gets trolled, trolls back. Simple as that.
Sock clearly says there, it is maybe possible to have it in a next year, everything good requires some time, before it actually happens.
Ah ok, well that sounds pretty normal. Let's just chill out and check the status again sometime next year.
Playing Through Azad In Forty Minutes
Ionous yeah, cool playthrough, thx man!
You have to gib the marine body with the Axe to proceed. The Shadow Axe that is.
It gibs dead bodies which is the coolest thing since sliced bread in plastic bags.
Still, the map could be considered broken with such a weird setup to proceed/trigger the final battle.
Play another map instead!
Onetruepurple, That Is Not Sepulcher!
It bears very little or no resemblance to the map being discussed here (except the name of course). It was an attempt by me to remix e1m3, it was picked up by the ad team and has since undergone massive reconstruction and iteration.
I'm aware of that - I did change the appropiate trigger_multiple in the start map to reflect that it's ad_e1m3 and not ad_sepulcher.
Personally I believe that it's an excellent attempt at an e1m3 remix that even can stand on its own even in beta form. (Of course you may disagree.) Part of the reason I posted it here was because in the event that the final version is never released, it's definitely worth playing.
Also because as is evident from all the screnshots, the reconstruction and iteration was indeed massive, and I fear that the "remix elegance" (if that is even a term) of this version may be lost in translation.
If you want me to pull this off Quaketastic then give me the word.
I just wanted to clarify, sepulcher is not e1m3, it's a new place! I would be better off making a new attempt at e1m3, many lessons learned since April.
Ad_azad Broken ?
I found two bugs in the map ad_azad (yes, I downloaded the latest version from the update above) :
There's a hole on the ground, next to an entrance at the end of a cave corridor, in which I could fall in. I then get stuck in that hole.
The major bug happens at the end, after I enter that big room with columns, and a transparent tube protecting a pentagram. Nothing happens and I get stuck in that room. All doors are locked. Had to use noclip to get out, but can't find the exit.
Barnak, in regards to the final "bug" i believe you need to gib the body on the ground with the Shadow Axe.
Ah yep, it worked, thanks ! But this was disgusting ! ;-)
Then I'm stuck again. One last door is still closed, and dunno what to do next.
Fantastic level, by the way. :-)
Good Read, Thanks!
Reading That Makes You Feel Pround, Even Through You Wasn't Part Of It
Thank you all for sharing this project and all of its content.
Reading that sock uses batch files to run his compilers was a nice treat. I do the same - not sure why, it's just a habit I settled into when I first started mapping.
Golem Crashing QS
I hope this wasn't because of my "request guys. Sorry if it was...
I was working on a storyboard level and had that happen. It reproduces pretty easily, for me.
Oh btw, Arcane Dimensions is awesome <3 We might have some preview wip screenies :)
This is the issue in DP's console
Is there a problem with "blockudeath"(self.think)? I mean that's where it stops each time?
I searched through the .qc but aside from the obvious typo or something easily recognizable I'm limited right now to picking up on what the problem is.
Also happened at Gotshun's so it's not just my PC.
For The Melee Only Golem
Could be because th_pain is never assigned.
Here Is Something To Try
Set the melee only spawnflag but also set the statue spawnflag. If no error occurs, then it is definitely because it doesn't set th_pain. The golem_wakefinished function sets th_pain for you after the statue wakes.
That's how I am getting this error. I start with those spanwflags(melee only + statue) set!
I think it is when he goes for the "punch" animation that it occurs. Also, maybe, I'm not positive on this, in godmode it doesn't happen?
I'll try one of the AD maps and see if it is specific to ME! Hindsight, I should have did that to begin with :(
I'll take a look at the golem crash later when I have some time. In the mean time, are there any other known bugs anyone has found. I don't think Sock or the other mod members would mind if I do an updated code patch for any other loose ends.
(DISCLAIMER: I operate on the principle of improving what is open source for the benefit of the mod community. Any bugs that I claim to fix or any features added are soley the whim of Qmaster and in no way reflect the mod authors intention or approval unless specifically stated by one of the official members. I only offer services purely because Sock has stated he is no longer updating the mod (why would he, maintaining a mod is a lot of work, especially when so many people keep throwing out feature requests (Yes, I may have been one of those people, at least I know how to implement them ;) .)))
One thing that would be great is that all you AD modders would gather together to implement your stuff into a "main trunk" mod instead of each being a separate fork of the original AD...
This Is Turning Into Quite An Early Christmas Present!
I've just finished Leptis Magna with only 1 secret left to find and all but 2 kills on normal -- there are 2 gargoyles that won't wake up. Epic awesomeness! Looking forward to Terror Fuma next, then MFX's and Sock's remixes. Cheers!
there are 2 gargoyles that won't wake up
They wake up when you get one secret.
In the mean time, are there any other known bugs anyone has found.
Single-shot weapons (like SSG) have been broken for a very long time. Symptoms: if you release the trigger at the wrong time, the weapon's animation will loop again without actually firing; during continuous shooting the muzzle flash frame comes too early.
My fix redone for 1.5:
Disclaimer redux: I dunno if it will break your mod or blow your house up. The fix Works For Me(TM), but it's probably deficient in some way, because I have little experience with QC or programming in general.
What it does is it steers the animation to the idle frame and makes it stay there, unless the player keeps shooting. Or something. I already forgot.
To those struggling to find final secrets on various maps even with noclip, here's a last-resort solution: boot up the source map in JACK, pull up the entity report in the map menu and filter the entities by class to "trigger_secret". Then you can go down the lines and hit "Go to" on each one to center yourself on the trigger in the 3D view and see if the surrounding area is one you've been to before. You can narrow it down that way.
Wasn't logged in. I feel obligated to claim responsibility for my work-around. Please send your e-donuts to me via the teleportation station at Metal Monstrosity.
Speaking of Metal Monstrosity, I downloaded and played the original today before I realized AD 1.5 contained a remixed version. I thoroughly enjoyed the original, though ledge-crawling for secrets was tedious and dodging Bob-fire above the void was stressful to say the least. What's new in the remixed version?
Better flow overall, just a much smoother and more satisfying experience with better secret-finding, and it greatly benefits from AD's expanded base roster. Though if you don't like fighting over voids that hasn't changed.
I like the updated azad, BTW.
This could be useful, thanks. Only in JACK or does TB have a similar feature?
I could be wrong, but I think only VHE derivatives had an entity report feature.
Stage Dive Left
Sock gets trolled
Indeed I did, last time I listen to proxy server trolls! :P
I am the person formerly active in this community as goldenboy. Post #270 was not written by me
I am sorry for the confusion, I did find it strange how you were so angry with me, sorry for accusing you. Lesson learned, always ignore proxy server people, they are a waste of space!
what will happen with ad_sepulcher?
I plan to finish the map next year and release it as something separate using the devkit.
If we could get the monsters that were going to come with it at least
There are only two monsters reserved for the map, boil and boglord. Really want to save them for the map, as the new monsters have special setups and uses.
I don't think Sock or the other mod members would mind if I do an updated code patch for any other loose ends
I am sorry to be the Destroyer of Dreams here, but I would prefer no community patches for AD. The MOD is finished, lets all move on to the devkit and start creating new and different MODs!
Arcane Dimensions was a crazy long two year project and now its time to move on (for everyone). If anyone wants to create more AD style content then please use the devkit! :)
You heard the man
GO MAP! And have a Merry Christmas!
Terror Fuma was a great one ... A crazy bastardized base level. Couldn't find my way up top though... might give it another go.
I do have 2 maps that were about half-finished for AD... I am hoping they will see the light of day eventually. :)
It's a shame that Quake has a directory requirement for mods. I like the named .pak thing that Preach made for Quoth, it's a super neat way of keeping your files under control :)
what will happen with ad_sepulcher?
I plan to finish the map next year and release it as something separate using the devkit.
Nice one sock, at least another cool map will see light of day.
It's a shame that Quake has a directory requirement for mods. I like the named .pak thing that Preach made for Quoth, it's a super neat way of keeping your files under control :)
In the past I suggested the idea that engines could support multiple mod directories. The idea was that someone releases a map pack, let's call it "Empires", which requires AD. You'd install the new map pack into a mod directory called "empires", then run the engine with a new command line like like "-games ad,empires". The new engine feature would mean that the game searches three directories in order, first empires, then ad, then the default id1. Nobody took it up though, although some engines do have the -quoth switch which does this as a special case for Quoth.
If you want to DIY switching map packs with the -game command, here's one way that works with all engines. Make a clean install of Quake into a new directory, then install the AD content into the ID1 directory of that install. The point is to set it up so that AD runs from this installation without any -game command line switches. You can then install new maps in their own mod directory, and switch between them using the -game command.
Bonus commentary: The pak files thing was partially a way to achieve this idea without needing engine support. It was also a way for me to test a clean version of 2.2 with custom content, without having any loose files in the directory - it stopped me forgetting to pack vital things because they were elsewhere on my path. If the idea was popular I thought engines might also add some kind of console command that could load a named pak on the fly - but seeing the download stats for the paks the effort would not be justified.
Just unpack everything.
@preach - Multigame Dir Is Sloppy, Fragile And Bad Design
Nobody took it up though
The multi-gamedir concept is an extraordinarily sloppy concept and requires someone to be unfamiliar with the Quake precache system, unfamiliar with what Carmack did in Quake 2 and Quake 3 and what Value did with Half-Life and what Zoid did with Quakeworld for downloading.
The Quake precache system, including the QuakeC part is hostile to the idea of this concept. So is the demo system. Where is the information in QuakeC that indicates the source of a file? Or in demo playback.
The idea only sounds great to someone who isn't thinking about co-op, doesn't ever use an engine that supports map/model download and doesn't ever do multiplayer.
Have you ever connected to a DarkPlaces or Quakeworld coop server and watched it download the maps and models and then you play?
Is your plan to break that type of functionality?
Furthermore, how many mods ever reach a completion state to be trustable for multi-gamedir?
Answer: Not even Quoth.
Quoth updates frequently alter map author's maps in ways not necessarily wanted by the authors of the maps (I believe Negke and RickyT23 are examples. I had a complaint about a behavioral change that affects Warpspasm).
So hipnotic and rogue are "safe", but in large part because they have been undeveloped for 20 years.
Quoth has largely been safe because there were 6 years between the update in 2008 and the one 2014.
Furthermore, the Quake Injector doesn't support it and many people depend on it to play maps.
And even if it did, it introduces an extremely fragile and spaghetti-like relationship between mods. Ask any who has tried to use multiple content replacement paks in DarkPlaces how easy it is figure it out when things go very badly.
Perhaps gamedir has a brushmodel and a replacement texture for it, perhaps gamedir b has a brushmodel and no replacement texture for it. You will get the lovely combination of the a model getting a wrong replacement texture being used. This is just a trivial example.
Add to that!
FitzQuake 0.85 introduced physics being affected by model dimensions. The actual gameplay of a mod can change if the wrong model or even a different model is used.
Multi-gamedir is a huge attack on:
3) Author's intent
4) The engine being able to accurate assess exactly what the required content is
5) Communicating that to the client.
6) Introduces a whole new level of fragility where mods are now co-dependent and can break one another with the slightly change.
A few years ago you were the one with a creative comparison of numerous DarkPlaces incompatibilities and comparing it to Internet Explorer 6. It caused some changes to DarkPlaces to occcur to at least be more predictable and far less mod breaking in the default behavior.
But what you are suggesting is even worse.
You aren't making this terrible suggestion on purpose, I know ...
But rather you are making this terrible suggestion from a lack of diversity --- the tragedy of your idea is easily witnessed in wild with DarkPlaces pk3 support and replacement content and users crying for help saying "I want A to work with B" or "I want this progs to work with this content".
/All of the weaknesses and tragedies of multigame dir support are hiding in plain sight in reading DarkPlaces related posts in the QuakeOne forums.
It doesn't take reading more than 4 or 5 posts related to use of multiple pk3 or multiple gamedir content conflicts with DarkPlaces to get a quick handle of true horrors ...
just got PREKT
@kinn - Haha
Now I'll never have to type Chapter 15 of the "Horrors of DarkPlaces" again.
I'll just copy/paste that post ;-)
Baker, I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not really looking for a console command (well, except for the very speculative last bit). I'm looking for a command line switch. And it's not for combining arbitrary mods, it's for combining a map pack which knows it's adding onto AD onto the standard AD installation. I don't think there would be any compatibility issues because each "mod" higher up on the chain knows what to expect below it (AD knows to expect ID1 files, the map pack knows to expect AD and ID1 files).
It might even let you fix the issues that future versions of a mod break compatibility by adding the progs to the map pack, thereby freezing the version of the progs which the map pack uses (although on the flip side this means that you won't get bug fixes from future versions either). Quoth implements this feature already with a batch file that renames a pak file to add it to the path, so it's doable in practice. I'm just suggesting that being able to do this directly, and with directories instead, would be nice.
half of baker's rant is about people messing up paks/pk3s, rather than gamedirs... I suspect half the reason he's complaining is because he has no idea how to get it working with his special-case 'hdfolder' hack.
Demos don't even come in to it, or at least no more than a multiplayer server. Users have had to use -game manually for a long time, simply adding another gamedir changes NOTHING in that regard.
Frankly, multiple gamedirs are fine if mod makers take the necessary precautions.
1) Always include a progs.dat in your map packs. This gives future-proofing.
2) Update news posts etc as appropriate whenever someone finds a bug in the underlaying mod that might affect your map pack.
3) For multiplayer, if a mod adds/removes/changes frames in a model, then the new version of the model needs to use a different filename (the old may or may not need to be distributed).
4) For single player, if you want to make it friendly, then provide/check for 'quothversion.txt' or whatever from qc to give a more helpful error when content is missing/outdated. Imho Baker is part of the problem if his engine(s) still don't allow this.
5) For multiplayer, always provide your content in pk3s. Each new version gets its own pk3. Clients that support downloads can then download compressed data instead of wasting bandwidth and time. Again, engines that don't support pk3s are imho part of the problem.
6) Avoid the use of default.cfg or quake.rc. Clients should not auto-download these, and if they come from a downloaded pk3 then they at least shouldn't be given full priveledges (like including a 'save pak0.pak' line), which causes a few sandboxing issues.
All it takes is some discipline (well, that and no custom defaults).
Nobody took it up though
fte+dp already support multiple -games from the commandline, and have done for quite some time:
-game basemod -game mappack
equivelent console command for fte (with 'hdfolder' equivelentsish):
List Of 6
6 great arguments against multiple gamedir support, really. If supporting something like that is going to require that much consistency from authors, there's no way it's going to work out well.
I mean, honestly! Updating news posts? Unique filenames for each version? Avoiding use of default.cfg/quake.RC? Very few developers have managed that level of professionalism or quality in their releases over the past 20 years.
And as much as the stated goal is to provide an easy way to load map packs from their own separate directory, I can't see what recourse an engine developer would have to stop people from using it with anything else. Maintaining a list of what's compatible and what's not is infeasible, so I imagine you could easily end up with strange cases of mods partially overriding other mods or just straight up crashing, just like Baker mentioned.
I'd like to be proven wrong on that point, though. I've never tried multigamedir in engines that support it so I'm curious as to how they solve or work around the problems of inappropriate use.
That list of 6 requirements (NOT arguments) are things for mods with a specific base mod in mind, which is what Preach was talking about (according to #402).
But hey, lets all make multiple copies of AD. One complete copy for each map pack that depends upon it. Then we can get the quakeinjector/downloads to redownload it all multiple times.
Yes, that's a much better idea. Not.
Who Uses DarkPlaces
other than weird people who like Quake better when it has textures from a shitty Xbox-era game coated with a fresh coat of jizz?
I didn't figure you as someone who would make this kind of derogatory comments, Lane. Funny thing is, the feature you're bashing DP for is the one that's also supported by QS, so I guess you should shit on QS too, just to be fair...
There's more to DP than hi-rez textures, like for example support for replacement models or a killer real-time lighting system. BTW, if you ever wander at QuakeOne.com, you'll see that a lot of quakers use DP.
I'm Sorry Mugwump
One of these days I'll buy you a drink and tell you about my last.fm days.
I think I'm missing something in this whole discussion, sadly.
If we're releasing map packs for mods, which is what people are saying multigamedir would be best for, why would we actually need multigamedir? Map packs are just collections of .bsp, .lit and other files that can simply be plonked down into the /maps directory of a mod installation.
Or are we talking about map packs that are more than just map packs? So, sub-mods?
I ask because Spike mentions creating multiple copies of AD for various "map packs that depend on it", but so far that hasn't been necessary for releases that use AD in the past so... yeah. Confused.
I don't take offence easily. And I am a bit weird... ;)
the jizz would be the awful bump maping? ja!
- i dislike bump maping. in old games, in new games.
- i don't like the new dp particle, smoke and blood effects either.
+ i don't have problem with hd textures, though
- i remain unimpressed with RTlights
+ i like water reflections, dp have those right? pretty water and all that... i couldn't make it work.
+ i like seven's smc mod. well, half of the mod, but comes with a .cfg to disable things.
+ and i would bow and praise if i see actual realtime raytracing lightning coming from those bizantine mosaics.
+ or, more realistically, sun rays like those in stalker clear sky in the morning, but colored (and various colours!). those mosaics are begging for something like that
why would we actually need multigamedir?
For cleanliness and ease of use? A new folder for each map pack would prevent the cluttering of the mod's \maps folder.
i didn't play tfuma, azad or magna yet!
i will record demo in skill 3. without deaths if possible, with quickloads instead of restarting the level if i die
I do! Dp and fte support multiple game directories which I use all the time with no issues. Not to mention all of their other features, but having those features doesn't mean you have to turn them all on or turn up the "jizz". Whatever the hell that is to you...LOL
Avoiding use of default.cfg/quake.RC? Very few developers have managed that level of professionalism or quality in their releases over the past 20 years.
Okay, so how do we provide our own settings while staying professional?
It's not my criteria, don't ask me. A lot of people seem unhappy with the idea of you providing your own settings though...
i thought quake.rc was the correct way to do it. autoexec.cfg and config.cfg are the ones that you should never include.
Yeah I for one definitely vote for having multiple gamedir support in an engine as it gives so much freedom to the end user with regard to how he wishes to combine different gameplay mods, assets, and maps. I have been using this feature for years with DP, and since its development slowed down, I have picked up first QS then Mark_V but the multi gamedir support has always been what I miss most of DP, on par with multi folder mod directory support (e.g. DP.exe -game ./addon/czg07)
Are you aware that LordHavoc is working on his engine again? Check the link in post #159 and download either the nightly autobuild or one of the 2016 betas. No, they're not in the Downloads section... Bonus: you'll get alpha-masked texture support, so these vines in AD will no longer look broken.
using a default.cfg in a base mod that a map pack depends upon runs the risk of a user installing the map pack, and getting a config.cfg auto-saved from it when the base mod wasn't installed. Which means that the default.cfg still doesn't do anything when they do finally get the multiple games enabled.
In multiplayer, the client will not know that it needs to download a new default.cfg.
I'm not necessarily saying no default.cfg ever, rather I'm saying that any changed settings within the default.cfg will not always be usable.
Just be aware that custom default.cfg files won't always be execed, or might be execed after its settings were already saved into config.cfg
qss+fte have a customisable binds menu, which is one way for a user to fix things up if their prior config.cfg overrode newer defaults (an updated default.cfg might still rebind stuff if something was not previously bound, at least, just don't depend upon the user having no prior binding).
qss+dp+fte all support set+seta console commands to create custom cvars from eg default.cfg (as well as autocvars, in case the default.cfg was missing or the engine ignored set/seta). Such custom cvars won't exist in prior config.cfgs so they'll pick up their correct default once the correct default.cfg is installed. Not (ab)using temp1 means that its default value of 0 becomes irrelevant.
Imho the only valid use of a custom quake.rc is to change the auto-play demo list. any changes before config.cfg should be done by modifying the default.cfg instead, while any changes after override the user's settings and are thus user-hostile.
Seasoned mod users delete the .cfgs shipped with a mod before even running it anyway, so they're basically useless.
But it can bite you in the aft end if a mod binds custom impulses, so the truly seasoned just rename it, skim it for anything modspecific, the paste in their own cfg and add the mod binds as necessary.
37:11 ; 2/10 secrets ; 161/192 monsters ;; 3 deaths
so much for no dying
good architecture 2/10 secrets... those secrets are well hidden. i died the three times because of monster ambushes
i liked that section with those wood.. mmm.. scaffoldings... or whatever...
Multiple Gamedir Justification
I thought I should mention one of the main motivations for having some way of separating out the content that comes with a map from the content that comes with a mod. There is a benefit to neatness, and with that you get the ability to "uninstall" a map and its content cleanly. But the main benefit to my mind is to avoid conflicts.
Suppose that two maps released for AD both come with their own unique skybox, but by coincidence both name the skybox "dusk". If you just extract both maps directly into the AD folder, one skybox will overwrite the other. The direction of the lighting at dusk needs to match with the position of the sun in the skybox, so it's likely that one map now looks broken.
The same risk applies to external models, sounds, and other resources, and the important change that AD and Quoth make is that these custom resources can be loaded by a map without needing to create a new mod. As more people take advantage of the features, there is a greater need to bundle together the map and its own resources into a single package.
A pak file makes for a nice, easy to handle bundle, because it's all a single file (and pk3 has the bonus of compression). However, I think the gamedir has won the day because it has lower cost of creation, has the necessary engine support, and degrades gracefully - people who can't or don't want to use the feature can continue to extract the zip file into the base directory. Cheers Spike for making that happen, it's always fun when you ask for a feature and get equally forceful replies of "stop asking for that, it's impossible" and "stop asking for that, we did it ages ago"!
If you just extract both maps directly into the AD folder, one skybox will overwrite the other. The direction of the lighting at dusk needs to match with the position of the sun in the skybox, so it's likely that one map now looks broken.
A bit of offtopic, but I'm glad people care about these things now. Some years ago developers small and big were seemingly unaware of the relationship between the shadows on the ground and that weird bright spot in the sky.
Attaching a lens flare effect to the latter - sure, looks purdy. Shadows are pointing towards the sun - uhhh, so what?
Back in 2005 I do remember trying to get quake engine authors to agree on a standard orientation for the skybox. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still inconsistency in sky orientation even today*
(* no evidence to back that up, just saying I wouldn't be surprised)
Been Replaying Stuff
When I first discovered the credits map, I was absolutely charmed. My first and last thought was something along the lines of "This is the best version of Oneiros I've ever seen, minus the color palette". But not because I didn't like the palette, it was just different.
Now it looks much closer to Oneiros, but I'm not sure it actually benefits the map. The old version was like something out of a fairy tale. The 1.5 version is white on magenta - rather cold and lifeless, but not in a cool way.
Maybe a warmer shade for the main color would improve it, but right now it kinda lacks contrast.
Or maybe it's the baby duck syndrome again.
First off, the connection you made with Oneiros never ocurred to me while making the credits map.
But i see your point now.
Concerning the light in the map, the bounce and phong shading has a general "brighten up everything" tone to it, it lacks contrast in the end. Besides other points.
I admit wholeheartly, those features where just "tacked on" to the original map files when recompiling, so the results are what they are.
Glad for your feedback tho, thx a ton, you actually spoke out one of my main concerns about it...and any future maps will be lit accordingly... Yep.
Thanks for your demos so far! Glad you liked it.
Is this a Quake map? I've searched Quaddicted with this keyword but it returned no result.
I never played the 1.42 version of the end map but I saw a screenshot with a decidedly different dark blue sky. Any specific reason for the tone change? This can't be just because of the lighting, can it? Now I have to reinstall 1.42 to see the difference!
Anyway, I enjoyed the 1.5 version quite a lot. I love the islands-in-the-sky theme. BTW, what's with the monster count? I got only 2 frags in the end while having actually killed much more - and no fish.
Clive Barker's Undying
i was refering to this
Clive Barkers Undying had no influence on the design tbh, as i don't know this game :)
and the monstercount you can't rely on.
All of the monsters spawned via the hidden button do not add up to the final count, because of the "nomonstercount" flag.
not a flag, its just a key set on those monsters.
First off, thanks for the french wiki link, that's a nice attention, though I wouldn't have minded an english link.
Hmmm, "demons with black wings"... So I guess the Night Gaunts are these Oneroi.
As a Clive Barker fan, I did play Undying back in the day. I thought it was a pretty good game but I don't remember much of it, and Oneiros doesn't ring a bell. I might reinstall it someday.
BTW, you haven't answered my question about the color tone change.
I Haven't Answered Because Its Minor In My Eyes.
I asked out of curiosity but yeah, gameplay is what really matters. I loved how it's mostly exploration for the first part and then, right when you grab the secret, all hell breaks loose! Minor quibble: the last "boss" fight is a bit anticlimactic, especially compared to the secret fight: all you have to do is safely snipe from the other side of the bridge.
but there has to be some things to moan about in the end, nothing will ever be perfect. words words words....
Rest assured that of your maps I've played so far, I very rarely have anything to moan about. BTW, how's work progressing on your spaceship map that you teased us with a few screenshots some time ago? I expected it to be in 1.5 and was a bit disappointed to see it wasn't there...
Oh well, that map needs some rest again, the tech/engines aren't ready yet. Or sth.
Awww... It Looked Great!
And we don't have many space maps in Quake. What's so special about it that modern engines can't handle?
Too many faces being drawn at once, because of excessive facecount/geometry being too detailed. Huge vistas play a role too. I hardly expect this to not improve over the time, tbh.
We'll see, but atm the map is unoptimized. And not much fun to play.
This can't be just because of the lighting, can it?
Well, it seems to me that the only major change is the fog color. Even the skybox is the same, but the way the fog affects it (I think it's the fog) makes a lot of difference.
Also, it seems to me that the shadows remain cold, which doesn't work as well with magenta as the primary color of the sky.
if you don't mind, give some examples (like screenshots), so i can follow your reasoning more closely. I try to improve the light with every new map (and with older ones revisited), so im glad with any feedback you leave here.
Thx in advance.
MFX, GO MAP.
They do?! Define seasoned? After 20 years I must not be seasoned. I examine the files before I put them where needed under my quake directory, read the readme for mention of need to know impulses & other info and not blindly delete anything. You described the opposite of seasoned.
Is there a document detailing the wave/trigger setups for the bosses (ice goldem, eidolon)?
I think he meant seasoned as in "herbs and spices". Well marinated Quakers tend to taste better when you delete their config files. /s
@xaGe Well, it never hurts to take a look of course, but what I described is the very abbreviated version of the advice I was given several times when I was still very new to the community from people who have done it for years when I complained that some mods fucked my config up and forced me to redo it all over again. I never meant that they do it blindly, or that anyone should for that matter.
@preach - It's Awesome You Read Me Correctly
It might even let you fix the issues that future versions of a mod break compatibility by adding the progs to the map pack, thereby freezing the version of the progs which the map pack uses (although on the flip side this means that you won't get bug fixes from future versions either).
I've been thinking about this. You read my mind.
I want a mapper's map to be played in the context of the original mapper's intent.
About Spike: Spike is 1/3 right and 2/3 wrong.
I love Spike, Spike is very intelligent.
But 18 months ago, Spike didn't fully understand what the Quake Injector did or why it was important.
I'll just say this: Spike is wrong. I'll prove it later.
I can explain exactly why Spike is wrong.
I'm rather happy you correctly interpreted my posts from my point of view of someone who cares about the infrastructure of Quake and the intention of mappers.
I also wish you structured the Quoth 2.2x updates in the same "peel back" manner as previous Quoth release.
Story for another time.
multiple gamedirs are fine if mod makers take the necessary precautions.
I know of examples that even mods with all the precautions possible, the engine cannot handle correctly because the right information isn't available.
It is also obvious in your very careful wording "necessary precautions" that you damn well know there are a number of conflicting scenarios possible.
You already know "multi-game" has very negative consequences and is poorly designed.
@spike - A Simple Example
1) AD modded by community, version 1.
2) My mod that depends on AD. version 1.
Which progs.dat gets used? Mine of course.
Then dwere fixes the super shotgun model in "AD modded by community, version 1" by adding a couple frames. And he patches the progs.dat and source code.
Of course, now my "My mod that depends on AD" is now broke. Because my progs.dat is the one that runs, and it doesn't know about the new model frames.
The whole multigamedir concept depends on non-development. The slightest change in a dependency throws a wrench into everything.
And what's fun, I have examples of how it can get hilariously screwed up even with "all the right precautions". Awesome stuff.
Pictoral view - educational, for sure
What could possibly go wrong?
if you don't mind, give some examples (like screenshots), so i can follow your reasoning more closely
I would, but I'm not sure what I should depict. I'm probably pulling this last bit about the shadows out of my ass anyway.
What I was trying to say is that the sky is pretty saturated, so it should probably affect all exposed surfaces by making them absorb some of its hue. But the ambient (not sunlight) hue seems to be cooler, and not much different (if at all) from when the sky was blue.
Since the sky/fog color isn't that warm, maybe it's okay; but something forced me to make this observation, so I dunno. I'm not gonna pretend I have a deep understanding of how this should work.
Then dwere fixes the super shotgun model in "AD modded by community, version 1" by adding a couple frames
which is why I listed this precaution
if a mod adds/removes/changes frames in a model, then the new version of the model needs to use a different filename (the old may or may not need to be distributed).
obviously that needs to be followed by the original mod ANYWAY if you want multiplayer to work well when people may have slightly different versions installed. If dwere causually changed a model then its dwere's fault (poor dwere, getting picked on like this) if something (like multiplayer, or hi-res replacement models) fucked up because of it.
multiple gamedirs already exist. id1, qw, $enginedir, hipnotic, quoth, $mod (+homedir versions of each)...
Keeping extra blockages to prevent people from doing what they want when the engine must already be able to cope with it is just user hostile, imho, but to each their own I guess. Without it I guess people will just have to keep on making copies of large (and possibly copyrighted) mods.
Anyway, your engine, your limitations. Whatever.
54:45 ; 6/13 secrets ; 211/245 monsters ;; 3 deaths
i really liked the new monsters. i don't if any of you knows the doom's mod "winter's fury" (awesome wad), but poison instead of ice. i decided to end the map before trying to get to the roof. well, the next time i will try to do a 100% run, no matter how much time it takes.
No Making Copies, Just NOT Using That Engine.
Not that I could anyway since it doesn't seem to support Linux, but that's not the point.
On Linux at least you could symlink files and folders to save space, but still not as friendly as command line multiple directory support.
Going To Play Through The Rest Of This In About An Hour
i did not take notes of time, monsters and secrets. but it's the biggest demo in filesize. 165mb, ~2.4gb uncompressed
impressive really. really long map, lots of secrets, lots of monsters, good gameplay.
well, i finished playing all the maps
what can i say that hasn't been said? it's a shame that this mod don't have more exposure. it's really that good, the gameplay is excellent.
doom has a better gameplay, that's why it has a bigger modding comunity and vibrancy. quake it's my favourite game of the two, but perhaps it's the first pc game that i played.
but with arcane dimensions, quake has better gameplay that doom or any of doom mods i played. better yet, it's simple enough that any "casual" player can grasp it quickly and enjoy the game. the maps have high replayibility
i played mods in doom, unreal, half-life I & II, age of empires II & III, warcraft III, homeworld series, total war series, stalker, oblivion, skyrim, etc. and this is the best mod that i encountered thus far. long war for xcom:eu and perma for skyrim are awesome high quality mods. i find arcane dimensions better than those two, wich i previously considered the best gameplay mods in games (that i know, and not counting counter-strike, but that's multiplayer).
Can Ad Be Done Chopped?
i will try, with the following rules:
* easy difficulty
* no reloading.
* no speed demo. i am not interested in doing it in the shortest time.
* shooting buttons allowed
* a couple of really accidental shots allowed. ie: when you pick a weapon during a fight.
* shot at flying enemies allowed but only when it won't come to ground level.
i'm not sure how many maps i can finish this way.
here it is ad_e1m1 done chopped (the easiest one):
this one was tricky
those hammer ogres are a nightmare to fight with the axe. for now.. until i figure out how to fight them well.
I'm not really looking for kind of argument that causes tension.
I could have decided to file the topic in the "I don't care" department. It doesn't materially impact me.
However, what good am I if I don't cite the reasons this has already been tried and failed.
It has failed every time it has been tried, and history repeats itself. If we called it "Windows DLL Hell" or if we were instead calling it Quakespasm Spiked requiring 32-bit libraries but the 64-bit ones have the same name you'd likely agree with me.
Although without Quake Injector support and support for it in the Quaddicted database, will be interesting to see how the average user would even install them.
-- Or are you under the impression that all these new guys that can't find their Quake folder are manually installing things like Arcane Dimensions and Quoth and then doing the command line themselves like an expert? Haha
Anyway, I did my part to share knowledge. ;-)
This doesn't affect me. And besides, I recommend you go with this.
Will be more fun saying "See I told you, hahah".
To be a good predictor, need to have someone super-smart like you who didn't listen and walked in the minefield anyway ;-)
Will make me look good.
/Anyway, Spike your #1 in my book. Done talking about this boring subject anyway, fun stuff is what I like.
More Axe Fun
this one was easy. i did it in the first attempt in twenty or so minutes
I rarely watch demos but an axe challenge could be fun to watch. I'd like to see how you axe a pyro, an ice golem or a fury knight... Which protocol are you using?
protocol 666, quakespasm
fury knight are the one with two swords? i tackled one with a quad damage in this demo.
for now, the hammer ogre are the one who are seriously giving me fight and killing me. i don't record the failures.
e2m7 was hard but not as hard as e2m2. in e2m2 i finished the level after like 12 attempts or more. i made e2m7 after 5 attempts.
playing in easy certainly helps. somehow i still get shot by those xbow knights. they are good.
If You Watch Demos...
i watch demos with markv, that sourceport has rewind and fast playing, with the arrow keys. quakespasm doesn't have that
Heh, yeah a quad certainly helps! You get hit by crossbow knights? They do have great accuracy but in skill 0 their shots are very sloooooow.
ad_e2m2 @5'42": Challenge failed! ;) You nailed a crossbow knight while the ledge he stands on is accessible (in fact, you land upon it @9'32").
MARKV has a bug with the rewind feature in demos. when you rewind, the clock go forward instead of backward.
when you pause (down arrow) and unpause, the time is resynced.
the real time is 3:55
that xbow knight is unaprocheable with axe.
when i jumped after grabbing the sharpshoter powerup (8:53), i jumped in another area.
Pyro Explode On Death?
Is this a bug, I remember using gibondeath value 1 : Explode on death earlier. But now I tried it and it didn't explode. I was planning placing pyro near the explosive boxes, and after pyro is death it might trigger some boxes to explode in a row and hurt player a bit. Not sure does explode has any radius/blast damage?
Is there any good way to make a misc_smoke "start" its animation? It's pretty annoying having it just pop in when it's been triggered.
i have to say, the new axe make the axe only runs much more easy and quick
i shot the nour for brevity and for my sanity
Has anyone else noticed that shotgun shells make a splash sound if they land in water, but only after hitting a dry surface first? Weird.
Grenades behave the same, IIRC.
Probably some quirk in how MOVETYPE_BOUNCE works.
I am now officially requesting a mod that turns the shotgun shells into little mini grenades.
Technically, they ARE grenades...
void(float shell_qty) Launch_ShellCasing =
local vector org, dir, avel;
if ( self.health < 1 ) return;
if (query_configflag(SVR_SHOTGCASE)) return;
if (self.flags & FL_CLIENT) makevectors (self.v_angle);
else makevectors (self.angles);
org = self.origin + v_up*10;
while (shell_qty > 0)
dir = -v_right*75 + v_forward*(random()*50) + v_up*(100 + random()*100);
avel = vecrand(0,300,TRUE);
Launch_Grenade(org, dir, avel, CT_PROJ_SHELLC);
shell_qty = shell_qty - 1;
I am now officially requesting a mod that gives the shotgun shells trajectory distance drop off, but also gives grunts and dbs enforcers z-awareness to compensate.
What happened to mon_eel? It seems to be entirely non-existent except for one tantalizing line in the documentation. Was it cut from the release?
There was a build I tested with mon_eel, it was a projectile type monster instead of a close range style one from the expansion.
I don't remember having great things to say about the implementation in place, plus I wasn't making a level that utilised it. None of the new maps had significant water sections so I am guessing Sock considered it bloat and binned the enemy off.
Is it possible to have an item resting on top of a func_breakable that falls down when said breakable is destroyed?
there are several secrets in ad maps that are exactly that
I believe the spawnflag "Floating" on items is what youre after.
ad_necrokeep does this.
Breakable targets item you want to fall. Have it start with floating flag.
I Feel Bad
that he didnt work out the secret language of the red painted doors (with skull wings). If he just hit the first door he'd be set. Oh well.
He seemed to have enjoyed it mostly.
How are we supposed to enter the path for ambient_custom_sound? Using the noise key, I tried "sound/ambience/liquid_bubble.wav", "ambience/liquid_bubble.wav" and "liquid_bubble.wav" and none of them worked.
All custom sounds go in "sound/" but you do not include it as part of your path.
Hence, your "ambience/liquid_bubble.wav" should work as long as it's a valid .wav file, no spelling errors and is located in the "ambience" directory inside of the "sound" directory.
This is taken from an ad_swampy custom sound entity: "ambience/woodcreak2c.wav"
Using "liquid_bubble.wav" would mean that you just have that .wav file under the "sound" directory by itself.
It's pretty straight forward so I don't know why you are having problems with it, good luck.
I ended up copying an entity from ad_swampy after I decided to check it out myself, and when I put it in my map and changed which sound it played everything worked fine... Honestly not sure what I was doing wrong before but oh well...