|Posted by HexenMapper on 2017/10/26 12:59:00|
|After our Beta phase and some tinkering, we are ready to release!
QUMP is a project aimed at getting new people to map for quake. Many of the mappers in this project had never made a quake map before, or had only made a couple. There are also some very early/old maps by more established mappers.
Get QUMP Here:
10 New Maps included:
Beginning - Pritchard
Bloody Sun - Danzadan / NewHouse
Citadel of Suffering - Topher
Manchester's Leftovers - Daya
Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors - Naitelveni
Stygian Waterways - Vingal
Sunken Cathedral - HexenMapper
The Dog Prison - Kres
The Three Towers of Tremendous Terror and Turmoil - Brassbite
The Real /vr/ Experience - Spud
Start Map - Newhouse
Special thanks to NewHouse for all his help with this project.
Thanks also to everyone who helped with playtesting, support and feedback.
Hope you Enjoy!
Going To Be Playing Through This In About 3.5 Hours
With all the lolz.
thanks for the streat ionous, very enjoyable!
Part 1 On The Quake Grave
Hey guys, just letting you know that Part 1 of the project is up on The Quake Grave here:
I unfortunately don't have a lot of time at the moment to type out notes for everyone but I do have some things to chat about during each maps playthrough. In the end, I think everyone so far has made a really fun map!
I talk a lot about what makes a map look dated versus contemporary in 2017, but who knows, I could be full of it. I'm not much of a quake mapper at all, so keep that in mind as well, I just know what I like and what i think looks dated versus contemporary. =)
Part 2 out next week!
Great to see this finally released.
Some nice beginners' maps in here, cheers to everyone involved. The maps show potential to varying degrees and I hope to see more from each one of you in the future!
brassbite: Three distinctly themed (colored) towers is a neat idea. There's nothing to really set them apart, though, either visually or in terms of gameplay. They all look very plain; long staircases with repetitive, predictable monster placement and weak weapons for most of the map which gets boring quickly. Try to spice things up with variation to encounters and side areas.
Danzadan: Somewhat unique theme. I kind of felt like the red star-shaped things should have had seams or some sort of trim around them for a more distinct look. The end fight is a nice touch. I like how the player has a choice of how much action at once he's willing to take by pressing either one button at a time, or multiple ones in succession (or by accident). The final phase of the fight is cool, but also tricky. Only works in combination with the fog. I survived by luck. Seems like it's just a bit too hard with darkness + all tough enemies + supplies only at the (clippy) center.
Daya: Good layout, cool "twist" and broken city parts, but excessive monster density in every area, though maybe that's also because I played on hard skill. The end fight is absolute crap- small area, no cover, wtf? I managed to not find a single secret, heh. The glass texture looks out of place.
Hexenmapper: The map's setting is clearly visible. Visually a proper 1997 vibe. Some strange texture combinations, but not an issue. Construction is boxy for obvious reasons, so for next time you can try some vertical shifts/angled parts and a tighter grip on scale. GJ on organizing this pack!
Kres: Good theme, nice details. Didn't like the colored lighting which looks off in many areas. I managed to miss the grenade launcher for the longest time, it's almsot hidden away from sight around the corner. Went to look for it when I couldn't proceed further and eventually found it. Again arenas with little to no cover and clippy bits...
Naitelveni: Nice one, combining classic'ish style with a touch of modern'ish details (e.g. broken bits). Combat feels a bit chokepointish and I would have wished for a better weapon earler- feels like I did half of the map with the shotgun. The small outside area left of the start room looks like it would have been a good place for the DBS. I thought the final area would have worked well connected to the rest of the map in a natural way somehow...ish.
Pritchard: A little bit like a speedmap. Not much to say... The first of many!
Spud: negke badge of approval.
Topher: Feels like a sort of experiment with setpieces rather than a consistent map. Not complaining, of course. I got a bit of an arena fatigue (also thanks to the other maps before). I think it would have felt better if it was an enclosed valley or canyon-type of setting instead of a space map-like one; and in my view it looks better without the fog.
Vingal: Good honest classic-style level. Very enjoyable. Shame about the misplaced flame fixtures, though. Wonder how something like this got past testing? Nice closets and areas opening up, and an intriguing secrets theme.
Start map: It looks cool, and I like how it picks up elements from each map for their respective exits. However, I found the layout to be overly complicated for my taste so I loaded the maps from the console. The first room in the map selection hub gave me a distinct Madfox vibe. :D
By and large, a good effort; and great idea to do a community project like this for people who would possibly otherwise be put off by the jams or their deadlines. Vingal's and Naitelveni's maps were my favorites, I think - not least because they don't (mis)use colored lighting.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record: most of the maps have items falling out and monsters partially stuck in walls. These issues can easily be indentified by using the developer 1
command before loading the map so that game will print warning messages in the console.
Thanks for playing ArrCee, some great feedback. Glad you had fun! Look forward to the second installment. I definitely agreed with a lot of what you said.
Cheers for the feedback too negke, very helpful.
About The Shifted Flame Sockets In Vingal's Map
The reason for their incorrect placement is empty origin fields on the func_illusionary entities. It is some TB thing where empty fields are kept instead of being removed. Some entities even have doubly empty fields "" "". This causes Quakespasm to get confused about their position. It does not seem to be a problem in Fitzquake, for example. At any rate, it's something to watch out for.
I made some quick hotfix for this (which also fixes some item and monster placement conflicts): qump_vingal_entfix.zip
Just drop it in the maps directory alongside the .bsp and make sure QS has external_ents 1 (default).
Needs to beta-test every new release. Nuff said.
It is some TB thing where empty fields are kept instead of being removed. Some entities even have doubly empty fields "" "". This causes Quakespasm to get confused about their position.
This is why brush entities tend to be fucked up at random in my retrojam6 map :(
Some clarification on my "clippy" comments. Wasn't meant as nitpicking but rather to point out a common problem to keep in mind.
Quake's style and architecture is big and chunky, so naturally part of the player's required skillset is the ability to 'mind his surroundings' at all time. So better stay clear of that support beam on the wall when there's a fiend approaching... Having said that, the physics can be quite dodgy and can easily make for awkward or frustrating situations. The player (as well as monsters and items) is basically a box, 32*32*56 units. And this is how he clips to the world.
Obviously, you don't have to go nuts with clip brushes and turn the map into a smooth pipe. But sometimes clipping geometry helps to make life easier for the player. In tight corridors or arenas, for example. Nothing is more annoying than getting stuck on some protruding or recessed wall part and get cornered by enemies. The AI, too, can benefit from clipped off obstacles sometimes. You know how dumb it is.
The same goes for the floor, and this needs to be stressed. Since the player is a box at high speed, small height variations can make for a bumpy ride, especially if it's some small depression, like for instance a lowered 64*64 grate in the floor. Imagine the player box walking over there, dropping down, then immediately having to go up the step again. This can impede movement or even stop it altogether. Again, not nice when fighting monsters. Check out the wodden stairs in Naitelveni's map for a particularly nasty example of dodgy Quake physics.
It's not only during combat, though. Essentially any place where it can inconvenience the player, so for example also on narrow walkways, staircases, jumping sections, and so on.
You shouldn't use steps higher than 16 units and if there are stairs or platforms of varying heights next to each other, like some open L-shaped staircase where the walking diagonally over the corner would be too high, sometimes a thin 'service clip' can help to avoid the player getting stopped where it looks like he should be able to get across.
Just a couple of examples; there are more of course. All to be taken with a pinch of salt. Although invisible, some good clipping adds polish to a map.
Wot He Said...
Cheers for the info on the brushes there negke, good points on the clips as well. There was one area I noticed in naitelveni's map where clip brushes would have been nice (the broken tiles at the start), but he had lost the map file so geometry edits weren't really possible.
Clip brushes are great and I certainly learned how key they are during this project. A bumpy ride is not nice!
Some entities even have doubly empty fields "" "". This causes Quakespasm to get confused about their position.
I'll look into this, can you give me map coordinates that show something rendered differently between Fitzquake and QS?
The "" "" entries don't seem to be a problem; origin" "" ones on brush entities seems to cause trouble. Example in Vingal's map: (520 2300 60) - from the cave you start in, walk down the corridor and through the door, then just to the left there's a floating illusionary. You can find these in several areas.
I don't see anything wrong at 520 2300 60 which is near the demon face:
but these torches right before the first door are missing their holders:
The holders disappear with QS 0.92.1 win32, and are visible with Fitz0.85
and QS 0.92.1 macOS so it's some kind of nasty platform-dependent thing. will post further in the QS thread when I see what exactly is happening.
Thanks For Finding This Issue!
I saw the problem in development and caused me intermittent issues on some entities where I had to remove this empty origin field (some mass manipulation gone wrong I'm guessing). Never saw the issue on the final version though and ignored the compile warnings about the remaining empty fields - what a mistake...
I'm going to clean up my .map file from those empty fields and recompile tommorow evening. Right now, the new tyrutils version I have installed (0.15.11) is finding leaks with func_details that it didn't find before (valid leaks mind you!).
No need for a complete compile, the .ent file I provided should be just fine for playing. If you do want to update the .bsp, you can simply rename the .ent file to .map and run qbsp -onlyents qump_vingal and light -onlyents qump_vingal which will only update the entity lump without rebuilding the whole bsp.
or use adquedit to load the .ent file into the .bsp
I fixed naitelvenis trigger_changelevel this way.
Part 2 On The Quake Grave
Just letting you all know that I put up Part 2 with the next 5 maps, can you find it here:
The maps in Part 2 are from Naitelveni, Pritchard, Spud, Topher and Vingal. Nice work everyone, looking forward to your future maps!
Oh man, I was looking forward to this, especially after Part 1 which had me shouting "Use your grenades, you fool!" at the screen more than once. Really enjoy your videos in general, you've showcased a number of weird or odd older maps that I normally wouldn't have looked at twice.
get completely destroyed by a Shambler protecting a desktop computer. Yea, I dunno either.
he he he
Also, someone already commented on the video with something about SOON™ being a DUSK reference, which it definitely isn't so not sure what he's going on about.
HA! I'm sure you're not the only one shouting at the screen at me. I get comments about it often. Glad you dig the playthroughs though. =)
Yea, I wasn't sure if he was on the money or not with the TM, as I just thought it was a silly joke.
Nice work on your map though, always fun to have something like this thrown in and break up the status quo!
I thoroughly enjoyed watching!
Thanks For This Episode!
After playing this through, i must say it's a nice thing and i hope you guys make a few more maps. The variety that this episode offered is a nice refreshing thing.
Keres You Owe Me A New Heart..
Holy hot damn Keres' map was insane. Got through by the skin of my teeth multiple times.
demo : https://www.dropbox.com/s/52lantcd2um7yuc/daz_keres.zip?dl=0
was tough, but also confusing, proper quake vibe was felt sometimes, but i had some moments of confusion.
liked the progression at times, but not all of it.
couldnt exit via the portal, though i had finished the level.
test you map better next time!!
Texture theme is good, but dont use the same texture for walls, floors and ceiling in the whole map
it destroys your layout, which was very nice indeed, it makes it more of a maze than you planned it imo
lighting was too bright for my taste
combat beefed up after being slow, very good!!
i died with the last kill, will have nightmares about it
This one had me rubbed the wrong way, i love the first secret, but the following experience destroyed it
not much of an ID theme here, instead a texture clash of insane proportions
Rubicon meets half-life and ID ones plus selfmade textures that are all over the place
the combat destroyed me within minutes(seconds?)
i did not like it, i expected better, judging from your previous released maps
i'm disappointed by this one a lot
you can do better, as you have already proven
well, i may sound assholish here, but
Thinking i was fucked big time led me to the exit
short and sweet horror experience
I don't know if anyone is interested to see this, but i'm making a blind playthrough of the maps. So far, i recorded these:
Citadel of Suffering (Topher)
The Three Towers of Tremendous Terror (Brassbite)
Shadows of the Forgotten Ancestors (Naitelveni)
Sunken Cathedral (Hexenmapper)
Thanks Tribal, I noticed you were recording qump lately, and thank you for playing ^^
What engine/settings do you use?
I use some custom models from Chillo's Model Pack v1.6 and some from Authentic Model Improvement Collection (links are in the video description ;)
About the engine, i use FTE 5121, with particle set classic, 3D and 2D filter modes set to nearest (for the pixelated look) and RT_shadows turned on in lighting and dynamic lighting modes (for real time light and shadows)
When i was playing Sunken Cathedral i noticed that RT_shadows was affecting my framerate, making the map really laggy, so i turned it off and started the map again =D
FTE is my favorite Q1 engine because it has that oldschool look (textures/skins/particles pixelated) combine with realtime light and shadows, which make the maps more gloomy and scary ;)
Interesting seeing the effect that RTL has on the maps, visually. Thanks for playing the pack! :D
Looks great tribal, cheers for the videos
Thanks, guys =D
I've just uploaded Bloody Sun, from Danzadam and Newhouse:
And sorry if sometimes the video looks a little bit dark. When i'm watching the video in my PC, it looks brighter, but when i upload to youtube, it looks darker. So, i'm trying to solve this issue changing the gamma in OBS. I think the next video will be fine.
So... in that little map with the rune (qump_start)... i noticed that it has one enemy that i couldn't find... so i nocliped around the map and i found a soldier hiding in a box. Anyone knows why is he there? Is he supposed to teleport and attack the player? :/
The soldier is there as a precache model for the corpse in the map. If you don't have him there, quake will not have the right model precached in order to place the corpse. There's probably a better way to do this, but this was the only way I knew at the time. (and didn't involve fooling with QC)
Oh, thanks =D
Now I'm feeling pretty stupid for having wasted so much time pressing and shooting every brick of that map XD
haha, I wouldn't worry too much - probably my fault for not working out how to hide the fact there is a monster on the map somewhere..
Finally, i've uploaded all playthroughs \o/
The Dog Prison:
The Real /vr/ Experience
Congratulations to all of you! These maps are awesome =D
dumptrucks tutorial inspired me to maybe go map again. This could be the chance...?
I'm not currently looking at starting a QUMP2 project - I have a bunch of projects I need to finish first. You guys can put something together if you like - I don't have copyright on the QUMP franchise ;)
You should just map anyway Brassbite, eventually a QUMP2 will come around and then you'll have a map ready to go
Go map. You know you want to.
Don't Forget Mapjams And Retrojams
You could take a shot at some mapping when these jams get announced.
thanks for playing tribal
i'm not playing quake lately, but i saw the video.
i started a conversion to arcane dimension to practice and test things, i must say that it makes life easier.
i may publish it here later, maybe in march/april
What an incredible start map!
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