There are two sides to the issue, in my view. I agree the gameplay in many Quoth maps can easily become annoying, but is it because the enemies are designed in a bad way or because the authors use them in a bad way?
Probably a bit of both: It seems to me they were intentionally designed to be more difficult in order to provide a high-tier supplement to the stock enemies much like the occasional fiend and shambler in a base or medieval map. However, authors often use them as replacements for regular enemies which results in a much harder overall experience rather than situational difficulty spikes.

So perhaps a misunderstanding on both parts. Designers wanted high-tier supplements while mappers expected normal-type additions for extended variety. Add to that a possible veteran player mindset on both sides and the result is frustrating gameplay.

I don't mean to bash people for not liking the new enemies, prefering less taxing combat, simply being not as hardcore players as others. Shambler being the exception of course! :) However, in the case of Bob, I don't understand the hate it often gets. It's not unbalanced in terms of health and damage like several other Quoth monster; the only thing that sets it apart from the regular enemies, in a positive way IMO, is its unique attack behavior which I don't consider difficult to read and master at all, there's no randomness or unfair behavior. 

Sock
Let me be you're betterman(live) 

i'd like to here , whats happened to D4 beta
anybody in 

I had no idea people disliked Quoth's gameplay until, I think it was with ARWOP, someone said that Drake was just like Quoth - I thought that was a good thing but apparently not!
Personally I think Quoth is great, but apparently I've underestimated the traditionalism here, even though I didn't even use a skybox until 2008.
Anyway it's nice to see forum activity and Sock screenshots. 

this is supposed to be the screenshots thread. not some debate thread. 

discussion goes where ever discussion currently is. over the long run, the thread will go back to it's original purpose. 

I think relentless is a fair assessment of some of the Quoth monsters. On investigation, I found that sometimes they were literally more relentless than stock monsters in nightmare. When the patch notes for 2.2 say that the "contrast" between nightmare and other skills has been increased, translateed that says the worst offenders have had such behaviour shoved into nightmare where it belongs, and more resemble Quake creatures in skills 0-2. 

I get the flak Quoth receives despite my personal love for the additions on offer, but I've always felt bob criticism was weird -especially after he got retooled. his pattern is very easy to master, I think. 

I think that sometimes designers will design a monster that's numerically in line with Quake monsters, but put one in a test box with a pillar in the middle, easily kill it without being hurt, and think "oh, I need to make that way harder." Thing is, every existing Quake monster fails that test too. You can even (laboriously, with practice) solo a Shambler with the axe just by doing the "shambler dance." The danger of a Quake monster doesn't come from its abilities, it comes from how those abilities overlap with other monsters, with surrounding architecture, with where the player's attention is focused, and with how his movement is constrained.

Meanwhile, the whole Quoth menagerie has homing shots and perfect leading shots and hitscan attacks with no anticipation frames and every new dude is like his own miniboss.

this is supposed to be the screenshots thread

You're right!

http://lunaran.com/pics/lunsp2/lunsp2_0019.jpg 

 

That looks more moldy than my 92 year old grandmother, and I like it! 

to people complaining about actual discussion taking place on this forum for a change: Calm down. 

Bring back the forge screenshot! 

use rubicon monsters, they are fairly nonthreatening when spawned alone in a cube room :) 

I really liked Singularity, it's an underrated game. I didn't realise it had such a scrappy development. Ironically I think it's a better game than Wolverine Origins in pretty much every single area.

Funny that it had such big issues running in ps3/xbox - the levels are all pretty small and linear for 2010. 

I know there's Hellraid, but I always hoped Raven would be able to return to their roots. I guess I hoped for the same thing with Human Head. Hell even with id, since they've done nothing in 10 years that reminds me of their old stuff. I especially suck at letting things go, but from Heretic 1/2 to Call of Duty franchise work just depresses me. We all know the masser the market, the dumber, but I'm sure all of us have seen the same commercial influence corrupt things - the parallels with music aren't too hard to see. 

Saw this on reddit, pertinent to a previous discussion...

http://imgur.com/LI3UBoN 

Fuck yes. Love the moldy mildew monolith deal you're showcasing there. I'd say I can't wait to play it, but I guess the last couple years prove otherwise. That shot has me more excited than Sock's though, which is saying something! 

reminds me of the atmosphere from another game, cant quite remember what though! But love it. 

http://www.simonoc.com/images/design/sp/metmon2l.jpg 

yeah looks great lun (once I put it into photoshop to turn the brightness up hehe) 

Kona

Seriously. :)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/161473/Misc/LunShot.jpg

Cool shot though! 

hehe exactly willem 

man up you pussies! lunsp2 is for hardcore players who cover their windows with black tape! 

i love the massive height of that hall. something that might be a cool theme would be a map where every room and hallway must been taller than it is wide except where absolutely necessary.