In the case if kinn_bastion there was no difference
between normal and hard skill, was there?

I think you're right - I often forget the details of stuff I made like what...12 years ago? I recall it was because I made a rather rigid monster spawning system so it could handle an arbitrary monstercount without breaking vanilla engine limits. I had time to fix this properly in Marcher.

Wasn't kinn_marcher the first map to introduce
a monster count close to 400 on skill2/3?

Something like that.

On a quick note, kinn_marcher was a map that came with an engine called Win/GLMarcher packed in the zip. The number of engines and engine versions capable of running the map properly greatly increased over the years.

The map ran in regular, vanilla WinQuake. The enhanced engines just gave you a nice skybox and no packet overflow in the final battles. They were provided for the optimal aesthetic experience, but were not essential for play. 

oh man! you got me! I'm such a hypocrite!

that map is from ten years ago dude, and I'm the first to admit that the ending was seriously unbalanced. if you search really really hard you can actually read me admitting that very thing in such obscure places as "the web page for lunsp1" and "the lunsp1 release thread on func."

you know what I learned from making that map? not everyone plays quake looking for some kind of olympian contest.

level design isn't a pissing match to show you can make a harder map than I can play. if the map just had no difficulty spawnflags at all it would be one thing, but by going out of his way to physically invalidate skill 1 by spawning the player in a special fuck-you room, he's trying to make a statement that I don't play quake the "right" way, which is utterly childish. 

many drama, much penis waving. wow. 

Thank you for your replies.

I thought the skill level and monstercount stuff plus the specific engine requirement didn't strictly refer to oms3.

There have been maps before that didn't support all skill levels. Kinn_bastion was a notable example, with basically normal skill missing.

There have been maps with a brutal monster count.
Kinn_marcher is a good example I think.

There has been at least one map that required a specific engine, I think Tronyn's something_wicked was one.

Not only that, but they are still considered classics in Q1SP.

There have been maps with 'occasionally horrid balance and combat design' on skill2/3. I would call the Chton battle and puzzle of lunsp1 unreasonably hard. You mention you admit it's seriously unbalanced.

It does not prevent it from being considered a classic and it's probably no reason not to play it on higher skill levels.

I think it was hardly 'macho dickwaving' that made Orl unable skill 1. Neither do I think it's childhish. I thought Orl's way to show there were only 2 skill levels implemented was clear. You don't have to see the readme or map description to know what's going on. I came to think of there being an easy skill as a favour in fact. Well, maybe it's just me feeling guilt as a betatester that I haven't pointed out the lack of normal skill as something players could find disagreeable.

I don't think Orl would indulge in 'wishful thinking' about QS engine support.

There was no need for me to attack you two though. Especailly about decisions made over a decade ago. I hereby apologize.

I didn't mind that monster count was the same in Bastion on all skill levels, and easy skill became a special treat. However, it was necessary to read the readme to be sure, something which players including me sometimes forget or just skip.

Thank you for the explanation about the Marcher engines. I do think that in this case the skybox and the prevention of packet overflows do make the difference, even if they are not essential to play the map. 

If you want to slog it out with monsters, play Qonquer. :) 

 

I haven't see this posted here yet.

This is apparently the original planned map sequence for quake, posted by scar3crow and based on info from Romero.

http://scar3crow.com/2016/01/quakes-original-map-order/ 

Completely bizarre. 

Makes it like a classic linear adventure, with all the military bases with a bit of medieval and metal first, metal undergrounds second, medieval grounds third, and devilish cities fourth.
Though in the schematic I was expecting something like Contra Hard Corps, where the game would have alternate paths via different exits.

Mod like that when? 

You could just change the trigger_changelevel fields and recompile all maps.

Existing ammo/weapon balance(muhahahaha) has to be adjusted accordingly, but on the other hand you can relight all the maps with proper dirtmapping now. 

that was satisfying somehow. 

that was satisfying somehow. 

 

 

 

the way they shipped it, with a base at the start of each episode, actually makes a lot of sense EXCEPT that the hub level (start.bsp) that connects it all isn't a base map, it's some weird medeival thing, so then it doesn't make sense after all. If you're already in the Quake Dimension, why go back to earth for a bit before leaving it to go find some runes? 

Maybe the Ranger only realized that he'd need the runes when he got to the hub.

Anyway, some things in the game's story are up to the player to imagine. Like how the exit of several maps in episode 4 don't match the beginning of their next map. 

metl - Yeah, that was always weird. The START map is sort of an anomaly... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnq6AY4stoE

Although there's the criminal lack of RoE's Super Shotgun, the map's well crafted in terms of Doom 3's standarts. 

i like it! that is very well done! i would have removed weapon clips since it already had modded monster sounds and such. 

Would be great if the map was lit. 

A related video is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcxJ9Klyct8

Your BFG will make this kind of gameplay possible, for those of us who's into it. 

WAD for Fifth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR2vk6O2WwA 

I remember asking Sock to include an arch-vile type enemy to AD.

Missed opportunity IMO. 

I remember asking Sock to include an arch-vile type enemy to AD.

When you have gibbable bodies, Archvile-type enemies suck because the player feels compelled to spend time gibbing all the bodies which is tedious (e.g. Quake 2 and the Medic monster)

Then again some might see that as a cool mechanic, I dunno.