A nice idea, but it's not necessarily the quantity, I just feel quite discouraged.

My other map ideas involve more realistic settings with custom texes, which we don't see often (if at all, that I really recall... although Lost Chapters is partially there, and that Ontranto... release?) - and so I feel I have no particular "OMG AWESOME QUAKE STYLE BRUSHWORK!!1SP00GE" shadow to map under.

I dunno if that makes any sense. At this point, for me -- doing traditional Quakey maps = discouraged, lack-of-confidence... doing realistic/interesting maps = inspiring, confident.

I was explaining to Zwiff recently about it. I want to do a haunted house/mansion type deal set in the 1930's with completely new textures (I'm already quite confident when it comes to graphics, I just have to deal with Quake's palette). It wouldn't just be a house full of fiends, that'd be boring. I have plans.

But it would be 1 of 3 maps in sequential releases, of a series of interesting, believable (as you can get in Quake, I guess) settings. Another idea was a theatre or church. 

This new plan might be great, but i think it would be good for you to follow through on something, even if you have newer, more exciting ideas in the meantime. 

find more agreeable, Phait, would be to handle it as a chain episode where one mapper tackles it for three weeks or so at a time, and in a few months you will be ready to have it sent back to you for the finish.

You are beating yourself up too much. You have a strong desire in you to make a modern Quake level with all of the crazy brush work, but don't worry about THAT if you don't feel you can tackle an Insomnia styled map.

Personally, my favorite maps are a lot of those old Runic levels, Carnage, Arcane, Bridges'n'Towers -- the brush work isn't all that complicated in any of those
levels but a lot of players would not mind seeing something along those lines.

I don't like being unduly critical of anyone's work (mugs in the pork worthy posts are another story ;) but a lot of big maps can bore the shit out of you if you have to spend a lot of time backtracking or looking for something you may have missed.

Rethink your plans, man, but don't give up. 

Shut the fuck up and finish your episode. At least condense the pieces you have into something smaller but still good. The visuals that we got to see (on a daily basis) were looking good... if you don't have the guts to follow through on something that people encouraged you _EVERY_ DAY to finish, then I don't ever forsee you finishing a single goddamn thing.

I for one love idbase, and am optimistic that you created a successful spin on the old style.

If you scrap this map project, I honestly don't think you'll finish something that involves you creating lots of new textures, or whatever... as alot of people here, who get alot more respect than I, have said: finishing maps has got to be on the forefront of your mind. I admit that I'm a perfectionist, so that's why it took me like 6 years to release the map I'm releasing this weekend... so looking back on that, I don't want you to repeat my procrastination and perfectionist attitude!

Take what you have made, re-evaluate it, and think of a way to piece it together into a level. I'm sure you want to get 20/20 on UWF's site, but 15/20 is still damn good, and _I_ think its possible for you to make that sort of quality level. Good Luck.

FINISH HIM (wait, this isn't mortal kombat)

FINISH THE MAP PACK 

stop feeding the attention-whore. 

 

Frib said I'm teh sawk, and FRIB IS TEH GOD. 

Head - a chain-map type deal is neat and all, but not how I work - in anything I do. I'm always about doing everything myself. Some things I succeed doing entirely myself, mapping (in large scope) isn't one of them.

Inertia - your words are encouraging, but I'm still skeptical it'd turn out like shit. Yes theres only one way to find out... meh. 

if you have trouble committing, why not just make one map rather than thinking about episodes, custom textures, custom this and that.

Just make a map. 

I'm not really fond of just a map here or there. I like continuous themes.

I can manage my other idea. 

The only thing inhibiting you is your own mind because you are buying into the illusion that mappers create. You are caught up thinking like a player.

People have an innate need to see things in qualitative valuations. Some qualatitive values exist as a point of fact(gold has been valued throughout human history because it is both mallable and really difficult to destroy) but many are just sustained metaphors that we all buy into for the purpose of communication, even if the metaphor inhibits our understanding, ie. there is no 'substance' to existence, it just 'is'.

If you are an artist of some sort, regardless of the true value of your work (as if such a thing could be really measured on a 20 point scale), it is your craft to manipulate the player's perceptions and his deep seated need for for some kind of fullfillment (thumbsucking, sex, First Person Shooters, it is all the same), and convice him that the several minutes he put into playing your level was a vluable use of his time.

He wants to think that the seven story high castle he sees in game is just about the most awesome thing he has ever experienced in his life, not knowing that you created with a few brushes a replica of something doodled or seen in a photo gallery on line, and then you scaled it up by a factor of 10 in your editor before adding the entities. Sitting on the table of a mess hall in the same level, the very same brushes would not be nearly so impressive.

He wants to think that the sustained attack by a dozen creatures that forced him to strafe for his dear life was the most blood curling experience of his life, not knowing you set it up with a few targeted entities and wait periods so he would have a fighting chance.

There is no reason to disavow the player of his
psychological payoff. You should do everything you can to encourage it; it is really how you are judged as a mapper, but I think you are placing too much of your own personal self worth into the art of mappage.

Get over your self! Next time you open up your map editor, give yourself a full frontal lobotomy before you touch anything.

As a mapper, you are a illusionist, not a master mason. After you have some basic skills in place, texture alignment, entity placement, and basic brush manipulation, it is just a matter of putting it all together.

Mapping is a hobby, like fly fishing. It is also a profession for some, like auto mechanics; don't make more out of it than it actually is. It is probably not good for you to put so much of yourself into it. 

Well, I hate referring to myself as anything, much less an artist - but essentially that is what I've been all my life, so you might see where I'm coming from when it comes to mapping - it's that... perfectionism and high standards. And there's alot of inspiration here who up those standards.

I like your point that it's not "master masonry" but just an illusion. Regardless though, I'm a quality-driven kinda guy and I don't like not delivering quality work.

I did think to myself some time ago -- these maps may not be in the style of someone else's, but they're in my style and that's OK. I was comfortable with that until I realized my 'style' sucked.

Hey I know it's just mapping, but it's like asking an artist to cook - it doesn't have to be a culinary art masterpiece, but it's probably going to end up looking like it - because that's how they do things.

That's all I can really say - when I create things, I tend to put alot of value/anticipation/drive-for-quality in them. I don't see anything wrong with that. Maybe I'm putting my ego in it? I don't know, I don't really even know what that is supposed to mean. I can only tell you we all have influences we try to live up to and for some it works out and for some it doesn't. 

drive for quality in them^
No idea why that truncated it wasn't even a proper URL! METL! 

someone close this thread, its pointless 

point noted.

But then why throw up a screen/movie of every change you make when its unlikely you'll go past two rooms ?

Its all well to get feedback but all that show for nothing (repeatedly)is probably whats got a few people annoyed. 

I know, I've learned not to hype anything because you can always risk something getting in the way. My original idea was just to release it out of the blue but yeah, I got ahead of myself.

I showed often because I was confident and I thought it was progressing alright, yet at the same time I wanted to get others opinions because I didn't want to be stuck in a subjective bubble. I was pretty sure I'd complete it.

It's not that I've given up on it entirely, it's just presently I'm not very motivated and I can't bullshit myself or anyone that I am. 

I'm going to bed; getting absolutely nothing accomplished tonight. 

that in asking for comments on many of your architectural style changes, you actually got bogged down trying to incorporate what other people thought the design should look like. The hell with us; in the end I really think that what the "community" thinks of what your map looks like should be inconsequential compared to your own enjoyment and satisfaction of the process of mapping. Just do it for yourself, don't worry what other people think, and map like hell. You'll never get very far if you're constantly remaking the same room cuz some dude on the internet told you the lighting sucked.

I try, I try, to practice what I preach. 

Another solid point, and for awhile I was pleased with my work. But since the end result isn't for me - but for players, it matters what they think. It's hard to understand if the map you make plays well - you made it, you know how everything goes. I believe in beta testing too, I had/have those plans but ah y'know. 

BTW
http://www.stuffonmycat.com/index.php?catid=9&blogid=1 

Not that I like using a message board to check if email systems are working, but did you get my patch for Fitzquake I emailed you last week? 

Thanks for giving up as I always knew you would. If only #tf had actually laid down some money when I offered to take wagers on you giving up, I'd be rolling in it.

Actually, I seem to remember suggesting pushplay take charge of the actual bets, given his gambling experience, so I'd have probably got completely ripped off.

Anyway this certainly puts all the endless screenshots, previews, videos and interviews in perspective. 

Get over yourself!

I lost all possible respect I might have ever had for you aeons ago (around about the time you were interviewing yourself, because nobody else would - are you that desperate for attention?).

I fully expected you to fail in your current map project, as you have done in every other project you've embarked upon, but I was secretly hoping you'd prove me wrong.

However, some other people on here (who are nicer and more decent than I) were being very encouraging and supportive of you when you were posting 70 new screenshots of your latest corridor every fucking day, and telling us all about how great it was going to be... the least you can do is finish something for them so they don't give up on you too.

More to the point, do it for yourself, or you're never going to progress and improve your skills.

Do you want to map? If so, stop whining and go and fucking do it! There's no need to make excuses or blame anyone else for your failings. Just do it. 

...but I hold some faint glimmer of hope that we'll eventually get through to this kid.

Frib said I'm teh sawk, and FRIB IS TEH GOD.

Who gives a flying fuck what I think? Do you care? Why? Don't. You need to either grow a thicker skin, or get the fuck off the internet.

so you might see where I'm coming from when it comes to mapping - it's that... perfectionism and high standards

News flash sonny... none of that counts for shit if you never actually do anything.

I can manage my other idea.

As well as you managed this one?

Maybe I'm putting my ego in it?

Do you think?

I know, I've learned not to hype anything

No, you haven't. If you had, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But since the end result isn't for me - but for players, it matters what they think.

No. Wrong. Its all about you. You, of all people, should understand that. You are mapping to satisfy yourself, and that's all. Anything else is a bonus. If other people like it, cool, but why on earth would you simply do something that time-consuming to please other people?

In any case, if you really were doing it for other people, you'd just finish the damn thing and release it for all the people who have been supporting you the whole way. The reality is you're a filthy liar though, you're not happy with it, and you're using the above as an excuse, rather than simply admitting you're too weak to finish it off. 

Do you care? Why? Don't.
Why? Because you have a reputation as one of the best, and if you state your opinion - well it must be valid.

As well as you managed this one?
I already explained why.

No, you haven't. If you had, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
That doesn't make sense. A project was hyped that failed to see through. End result = dissapointment to those looking forward to it and myself. I haven't learned that?

You are mapping to satisfy yourself, and that's all. Anything else is a bonus. If other people like it, cool, but why on earth would you simply do something that time-consuming to please other people?

That's how I view gaming. What fun is it for me to play my own levels when I know how it all goes and ends? The only fun I get out of it is building, provided it's going smoothly.

The reality is you're a filthy liar though, you're not happy with it, and you're using the above as an excuse, rather than simply admitting you're too weak to finish it off

You haven't read higher up. I already admitted I don't quite have the discipline to finish a 6-map episode entirely by myself as I thought. Of course I'm not happy with it - your comment caused me to look at the work and reconsider if it was even worth it as it was. Other maps that were inspiring did the same thing. But instead of encouraging they discouraged me. That would be my fault for letting their quality discourage me. Tough shit.