point noted.

But then why throw up a screen/movie of every change you make when its unlikely you'll go past two rooms ?

Its all well to get feedback but all that show for nothing (repeatedly)is probably whats got a few people annoyed. 

I know, I've learned not to hype anything because you can always risk something getting in the way. My original idea was just to release it out of the blue but yeah, I got ahead of myself.

I showed often because I was confident and I thought it was progressing alright, yet at the same time I wanted to get others opinions because I didn't want to be stuck in a subjective bubble. I was pretty sure I'd complete it.

It's not that I've given up on it entirely, it's just presently I'm not very motivated and I can't bullshit myself or anyone that I am. 

I'm going to bed; getting absolutely nothing accomplished tonight. 

that in asking for comments on many of your architectural style changes, you actually got bogged down trying to incorporate what other people thought the design should look like. The hell with us; in the end I really think that what the "community" thinks of what your map looks like should be inconsequential compared to your own enjoyment and satisfaction of the process of mapping. Just do it for yourself, don't worry what other people think, and map like hell. You'll never get very far if you're constantly remaking the same room cuz some dude on the internet told you the lighting sucked.

I try, I try, to practice what I preach. 

Another solid point, and for awhile I was pleased with my work. But since the end result isn't for me - but for players, it matters what they think. It's hard to understand if the map you make plays well - you made it, you know how everything goes. I believe in beta testing too, I had/have those plans but ah y'know. 

BTW
http://www.stuffonmycat.com/index.php?catid=9&blogid=1 

Not that I like using a message board to check if email systems are working, but did you get my patch for Fitzquake I emailed you last week? 

Thanks for giving up as I always knew you would. If only #tf had actually laid down some money when I offered to take wagers on you giving up, I'd be rolling in it.

Actually, I seem to remember suggesting pushplay take charge of the actual bets, given his gambling experience, so I'd have probably got completely ripped off.

Anyway this certainly puts all the endless screenshots, previews, videos and interviews in perspective. 

Get over yourself!

I lost all possible respect I might have ever had for you aeons ago (around about the time you were interviewing yourself, because nobody else would - are you that desperate for attention?).

I fully expected you to fail in your current map project, as you have done in every other project you've embarked upon, but I was secretly hoping you'd prove me wrong.

However, some other people on here (who are nicer and more decent than I) were being very encouraging and supportive of you when you were posting 70 new screenshots of your latest corridor every fucking day, and telling us all about how great it was going to be... the least you can do is finish something for them so they don't give up on you too.

More to the point, do it for yourself, or you're never going to progress and improve your skills.

Do you want to map? If so, stop whining and go and fucking do it! There's no need to make excuses or blame anyone else for your failings. Just do it. 

...but I hold some faint glimmer of hope that we'll eventually get through to this kid.

Frib said I'm teh sawk, and FRIB IS TEH GOD.

Who gives a flying fuck what I think? Do you care? Why? Don't. You need to either grow a thicker skin, or get the fuck off the internet.

so you might see where I'm coming from when it comes to mapping - it's that... perfectionism and high standards

News flash sonny... none of that counts for shit if you never actually do anything.

I can manage my other idea.

As well as you managed this one?

Maybe I'm putting my ego in it?

Do you think?

I know, I've learned not to hype anything

No, you haven't. If you had, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But since the end result isn't for me - but for players, it matters what they think.

No. Wrong. Its all about you. You, of all people, should understand that. You are mapping to satisfy yourself, and that's all. Anything else is a bonus. If other people like it, cool, but why on earth would you simply do something that time-consuming to please other people?

In any case, if you really were doing it for other people, you'd just finish the damn thing and release it for all the people who have been supporting you the whole way. The reality is you're a filthy liar though, you're not happy with it, and you're using the above as an excuse, rather than simply admitting you're too weak to finish it off. 

Do you care? Why? Don't.
Why? Because you have a reputation as one of the best, and if you state your opinion - well it must be valid.

As well as you managed this one?
I already explained why.

No, you haven't. If you had, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
That doesn't make sense. A project was hyped that failed to see through. End result = dissapointment to those looking forward to it and myself. I haven't learned that?

You are mapping to satisfy yourself, and that's all. Anything else is a bonus. If other people like it, cool, but why on earth would you simply do something that time-consuming to please other people?

That's how I view gaming. What fun is it for me to play my own levels when I know how it all goes and ends? The only fun I get out of it is building, provided it's going smoothly.

The reality is you're a filthy liar though, you're not happy with it, and you're using the above as an excuse, rather than simply admitting you're too weak to finish it off

You haven't read higher up. I already admitted I don't quite have the discipline to finish a 6-map episode entirely by myself as I thought. Of course I'm not happy with it - your comment caused me to look at the work and reconsider if it was even worth it as it was. Other maps that were inspiring did the same thing. But instead of encouraging they discouraged me. That would be my fault for letting their quality discourage me. Tough shit. 

Damn! Nice post! I think that's one of the better posts I've read on func_/qmap...c'n'p'ed to my quotes file.

As a mapper, you are a illusionist, not a master mason. After you have some basic skills in place, texture alignment, entity placement, and basic brush manipulation, it is just a matter of putting it all together.

Mapping is a hobby, like fly fishing. It is also a profession for some, like auto mechanics; don't make more out of it than it actually is.

That's good nourishing stuff right there for anyone who does this (for a hobby or a profession) and occasionally gets a little hung up on the vast importance of it all...it's all about Making Cool Shit, but it's not like we're curing cancer or somesuch. It's simply about entertainment. We're performers-once-removed, in a way...

Oh, almost forgot: Phait, go map. 

Rooofls. 

For the love of god, just finish the damn thing because if you don't, nobody here will ever again take you seriously. For the time you've been posting stuff about System 4, you had given some people hope you could actually come out with a decent map project, because it did indeed look very cool. Now you better don't dissapoint them by giving up. Stick to it, finish it, release it.

About opinions: people like Frib, CZG, Shambler, etc, etc are all people with opinions to listen to, because they've been around for quite a long time. However, opinions are like assholes: everybody's got one and most of them tend to stink. Take note of other people's opinions but don't let them prevent you from finishing what you are doing. 

Don't listen to me. Ever. 

Do you care? Why? Don't.
Why? Because you have a reputation as one of the best, and if you state your opinion - well it must be valid.

Opinions are just opinions no matter who utters them and their value has very little to do with the reputation of the one offering them. Listen to what other's say but always make your own choices. 

For the love of god, just finish the damn thing because if you don't, nobody here will ever again take you seriously.

That's a non-issue, I'm already not take seriously and frankly I don't care.

Like I said earlier, buried amidst other posts - I do want to work on it, and finish it - but right now isn't the time. 

make an announcement you're quitting ?

You could hae worked on it at your own pace, and if anyone queried you about it, you could have answered them when they did. 

I just have scraps people can use if they want. 

Necros has ( finally :P ) released the chapters source files. All the qc etc. for the chapters content is available for download from his QExpo booth:

http://qexpo.quakedev.com/booths.php?tag=necros

And I've mirrored it on Signs Of Koth:

http://kell.spawnpoint.org/chapters/chapters-source-0.zip

( note: different filename, same shit )

Those of you wishing to use any of the content along with your own project stuffage should get to it post haste.

And just as a reminder, the chapters tutorial is available here:

http://kell.spawnpoint.org/chapters/chapters_tutorial.html

More content to follow. Dot, dot dot... 

When I hit submit for it, it took a while to load, and when it did, my first thought was 'Holy Shit, that was long,' my next, 'I'm going to get some flames on my butt for that one.' 

I love mapping! I would like to question with others what make Quake so good. I would like to make chain maps. I would like to understand why other people enjoy mapping.

I started a new post about a convertion with four 6packs in it. Then I felt like a wheeny who couldn't highjack id standards, but remembered I had a lot of fun mapping so.

Finally I found myself months tracing HOM's and leaks for a challenge maybe I would be the only witness. Now I'm finnaly done... and it could have been done better. It's stills lingers on in me, that sideway...that corridor.

After 206 posts it was diluted to some crunged grunt quarreling about marginal matters. Not the sympathic optimist who started the thing.
But I would like to thank you all for your comments, without it it wouldn't be the Abandon
I had in mind when I started.

And I am really glad with it, although it were not the comments I suspected. They made me understand what people on this board are participating on.

Still I got faith in your progress Phait! I may be a less mapper than you, but your motivs and tryings are quit clear to me. Do it for your own pleasure, noone ever emailed me to tell how they enjoyed (or bored) they were after playing the pak.
In fact, I only started to hesistate after posting on this board, seeing how perfect others were.

me-o-my 

Even MadFox thinks you're a dink, Phait. :) 

Am I noone ...? 

wait...arghzagel!...knew it, always these pinboards.

I ment the input of the mapping work never reaches the output players joy. Phait joined my post with good advice like others.
Publishing maps is another thing than mapping itself. As programming is not compiling.

I was surprised to see how the map were recompiled with your new compilers AguiRe!

I rather do limmericks now.