Readme file please. ZIP archive instead of 7z please.
Any template for readme file?
Nice Little Concept Map
Good first effort.
So many secrets! Some of them easy enough to find, others a bit random, some maybe a bit too risk-rewardish (the GL one at least). The counter had me fooled, I only realized afterwards there were several more. No idea if this is intentional, but it can make for good rough reference, "you need to find 20 secrets in order to beat this map".
Obviously, as mentioned, technical execution needs to be improved. Boxing the map is worst way to deal with leaks; the colored lighting is terrible - the map looks much better without it (deleting the .lit); there's quad damage item falling out of the level somewhere.
And what Spirit said.
Demo - forgot to change the protocol, so you need Fitz or Quakespasm. I died once.
Regardless of the issues, this was a nice Q1SP snack on a Saturday morning. Hope you're going to keep up the mapping!
Well Well, That Was Interesting.
Started off super annoying but was short enough to restart a few times until I got the hang of it, once you actually get some fucking ammo it got quite fun. Nice idea, good use of a small map (which itself had a neat design even if the build quality was ass).
Some of the secret "visual language" was quite inconsistent. Some buttons you shoot some you press, some demon doors you shoot some you open elsewhere. You need some consistency so the secrets can work as intelligble puzzles. The hi-tech shootable buttons were a bit out of place and too easy, something more subtle would be nice. The actual "proper" secrets were quite cool, the RL one was fun especially.
As a small concept map this is fine, work on your build quality and texturing etc, and see where you can go with this, it's got some good ideas.
As requested .zip format, readme file included.
Thanks for the demos, negke.
Shambler, I agree on inconsistency - I get confused myself 8/ and by "build quality" you mean map design/layout/brushwork or those compile settings (e.g. -fast)?
From a players perspective, mostly stuff like textures. E.g. cut off textures on the shootable lights, wall textures on floors, front-of-button textures on the sides of buttons, stuff like that.
First playthrough, 3 deaths in secret.dem. Long time spent hunting for secrets, with lots of missed jumps. More secrets in secret2.dem.
It took me a lot of time to understand that the same texture could have different functions, and different textures could have similar effects. I agree with Shambler about the shootable 'crosshair' buttons.
Is there a way to get the item in health.jpg?
The gold key might be a bit too easily accessible: gk.dem and gk2.dem.
The RA was easier for me as in touch.dem, rather than the other way shown later in the same demo. Is it the intended way to access the SNG, cells, thunderbolt and RL in jumps.dem?
Also boxing in and not sealing the level properly, those "dropping item" devices, at least one Z fight, etc.
Thanks for feedback guys. I'll try to do better next time.
Yes. You got health.jpg in first demo ;)
Gold key easy access - oh crap, nice find. To be fair, I think that particular flaw won't ruin anyone's first run. You discover it after spending some time on this map.
You got SNG, cells and thunderbolt right, it is a part of harder to obtain secrets. RA was supposed to be a part of that group.
Rocket doesn't require grenade-jump.
At some point I hesitated to include all-secrets demo to map archive, but decided not to. Thought it would be too tempting to check it early on, which would take away the fun of discovering it yourself.
Nice little fun map. Reminds me a bit of Doom 64 gameplay.
The silver key can also be obtained through grenade jumping, but getting it the proper way is better.
I've gotten 12 of 15 secrets. Didn't figure out how to get the cells and the thunderbolt.
This map has a good level of replayability, I like that.
Thanks for your reply.
I found out how to get the RL after I read it. It immediately reminded
me of the RA in the very first level of the Nehahra pack.
Finding the health in my first demo was a pure accident.
I never saw the switch until you made me watch my own demo.
10 Second Demo
no damage taken, no shots fired, no secrets found, no innocent monsters harmed!
Thanks for the zip and txt! Mirrored it to Quaddicted so it should soonish be available on the site and in the Quake Injector.
Well That Was Different
And fun. Found 14/15 secrets. Not sure I found the "approved" way of getting to all of them.
I've found the RL today. Nice one!
Frustrating At First
but I started to enjoy the challenge more once I got into it. And once I had a gun to shoot at secrets with. Monster infighting fuckin rules and I probably relied on that more than anything else in the map, so that's cool. I liked that you kept things small and nonlinear, but it feels a little crammed. Like there's a fuckton of action and that's great but it feels like there's not quite enough space to accommodate it all.
Also I'd recommend working on detail things, like texture alignments/choices and making your doors open properly (instead of doors with obvious double-door textures that just slide up). Good start, love the creativity. Keep it up! Gonna keep trying till I find that RL.
Rocket Launcher Secret
Was awesome. Like the oldschool feel. Some of the secrets were pretty clever. I didn't like how non-obvious the shootable floor was under the elevator though. Maybe put the texture at a 30deg angle.
this map, just like id levels, lends itself particularly well to speedruns.
Mandel has already made a run. As I mentioned before, the GK seems to be too easy to grab from this point of view, not even mad bunnyhopping is needed.
No real problem, there could be a contest in the spirit of e2m1: a run needing to take the silver key and extend the GK brigde.
The real treat seems to be the all kills and secrets run. I have made a sloppy 2:21 but decided not to post. I was struggling with tricks that should make the completion faster.
As mankrip mentions, the SK can be taken by a greande-jump, all the way from downstairs, and then there is a slope-jump as the way out. Right after getting the grenade launcher, one could go upstairs for the rocket launcher without the SK. The lava is possible to cross by a strafe jump. The same kind of jump can connect the SNG and the cells. Given the amount of explosives, armour and a quad, it should be a real feast. Oh, and there is the telefragging the first ogre from the GL secret.
Another visually nice trick is a rokcetjump from the YA straight to the gold key.
It is possible to get 16/15 secrets as the YA secret trigger seems
to sometimes fire twice if approached be a rocketjump from the megahealth.
I wonder if it is possible to grab the red armour straight from the nailgun by a circlejump.
By design, some secrets are reachable in multiple ways, the red armour button being an example.
This level seems to follow pretty much the same 'unwritten rules' as episode 4 does:
1. No (ab)use of the special features/(bugs?)of Quake physics
is necessary to finish the map.
2. No need for it to access secret areas, with some exceptions
.1 The intended way to the MH+quad in e4m1 seems to be a slopejump to the button opening a secret door.
.2 To reach the teleporter to the RoS in e4m4, the intended way seems to be to use self-inflicted damage from a grenade to be placed in the desingated hole in the floor. (There is a pentagram just next, but the explosion does eat away armour.)
In this map it is the SNG, the cells and the thunderbolt secrets that require the use of some jumps that might be considered tricks by some.
Reading comments here and on Quaddicted, several
people seemed to be puzzled about these secrets.
I have recorded a 100% secrets guide accessing all of them in the was I think was intended. May I be allowed to post it to avoid confusion?
Several custom maps have decided not to stick to the 'unwritten rules'. In my personal view it is advisable to at least state this in the readme, mostly to avoid players getting puzzled looking for 'normal' ways to proceed when it is not possible.
Speedrun Of "secret" Would Make My Day
I hesitated about blocking GK with grate until bridge is released, but then decided against it. As I see it - route is not strictly obvious because level geometry suggests "impossibility". I mean, wouldn't you agree that it is clearly enough not intended for player to go there as it is, without changing something? If player still wants and able to get there, he is free to do so.
Can't imagine someone saying: "Maaan, I so frustrated and disappointed because I was able to get a %thingie% as I wanted, instead of as intended by mapper!"
YA to GK. You are my personal hero, mate! =D
I so hoped someone would find that little quirk.
Always assume there is something fishy about lifts in my maps ;)
On a serious note, agree, unmarked secrets is not that fun. Though I still can't decide to what extent it should be hinted.
Thanks For Your Answer.
I'm the odd one out. I did say fuck it! when I first played Vondur's ac recently and I grabbed the silver key with a pretty easy slopejump near the start. I strongly suspect til now it was not the intended way.
Maybe intended as a backdoor? All the more disappointing. THEN I found out the level relied on a slopejump for progression. Argh!
Another such experience was when I made a more difficult slopejump in negke's sm100_turtlemap in the silver key area. Instead of having made a shortcut, I realized I'm probably stuck in the lower half of the level with no way out. Argh! THEN I realized the intended way to get to a secret area was another, albeit much easier slopejump. I thought fuckit!
Your gold key is ok. Makes the level remind me of e2m1. The level can be completed in 7 seconds. The jump has to be precise, but no tricks are necessary amd you're done in ten seconds. Still, I think the window gap is ok. However, the speedrunners made a contest called the 'long way'. It resulted in one of my favourite demos of all time.
Likewise, your map can be completed in ten seconds and to make the main shortcut you don't even need to make a bunny, but of course the bunny is faster.
So, thing is I feel we suffered a loss not seeing Mandel make his sick bunny across the lava after telefragging the ogre, making a grenade-jump to the SK, then possibly a slopejump out. then a grenade-boosted bunny back over the lava taking the MH en route, maybe (if he lands before reaching upstairs) a grenade-boost upstairs off a just spawned monster, a brutal flight from Mr. Shambler to the gold key, and probably a grenade-boosted bunny from the Vore to the gold key door, and finally a shot in Mr.Shambler's ass before exiting just for the sake of it. I would call this 'the long way'. He probably needs to take some extra health or an armour somewhere though.
Me I can harldy ever make the gj to the SK.
No, honestly I was glad to find the GK shortcut before Mandel made his nice and peaceful run.
YA to GK. Another trick I can hardly do.
When I found out after everything else what's up with the YA secret I thought, 'this debuting mapper is one sick motherfucker!'
100% Demo + Some Extra
There is a demo in the zip with all kills and secrets(100.dem). It is my fastest, recorded last night. A grenade jump and some rocket jumps were used, and some air control here and there.
One addition is ogre.dem with the ogre telefrag from the GL secret. Each time I got it a big mistake followed later, this time a jump from the NG.
16.dem shows the YA secret trigger fire twice so the secret count can go to 16/15.
Gonna watch it right mow.