|Posted by Shambler on 2017/12/26 15:05:41|
|Let's assume that a full HD but true-to-spirit Quake remake, guaranteed 200 maps, AD 3.0, and PC Gamer cover shots fall under "un-realistic", but there might be other exciting ideas and desires that will come true.
So what do you want?? Map-wise, theme-wise, mod-wise, meta-wise?? Let's get the hype started....
Suddenly you guys want volumetric fog, reflections, lightmapped water, custom GUIs, particles and all models remade.
TBH, I, and probably a considerable number of others, don't.
Broken record, but I want our #tf discord emotes as func post icons.
FWIW, personally I don't want a bunch of special effects and whatnot.
On the tech side of things, usability is the biggest hurdle for new (or returning) players. Most of the Quake engines don't have a Maps selection menu or a Mods menu. And actually just the proliferation of different engines and forks-of-engines is a stumbling block as well. No ill will from me toward anyone who wants to putter around on their own personal project, but from a player's perspective the gaggle of all-somewhat-different engines is just a pain in the ass.
On the content side, like Shambler above I'd love to see more medium-scale cleverly-assembled maps. Also connecting a set of maps into a simple thematic and/or gameplay progression is neat. (Really interested to see how the episode jam handles this.)
Of course anyone who makes stuff for this weird old game deserves a pat on the back regardless of whether they cater to my tastes or not! Just throwing in my 2 cents since the thread explicitly asks.
Actually, take each person individually and they're only asking for a small number of things. It's just everyone has a different wishlist.
I get your point about Darkplaces and FTE already having a lot of this stuff, but I think the unwritten (or in many cases written) rule here is that if it don't work in Quakespasm, it's probably not going to be played by the func crowd.
Personally, just 16-bit verts in models and custom HUD and I'm good to go. Different strokes for different folks.
For example I wouldn't request flashy eyecandy with reflections and shiny shaders.
I wouldn't know what to do with fancy shaders to be fair.
I just want to play Quake using Quakespasm or Mark_V on the couch in DM when I am hosting guests (which is often enough that I'd play it almost every week).
The upshoot of this is that I'd be making more co-op friendly maps and deathmatch levels.
Unless or until someone makes the original hud inside CSQC as a base...AND Quakespasm gets CSQC support, CSQC isn't that useful. Also, Darkplaces doesn't have twisty water so it does not count as a legitimate engine as it does not have all of the most utterly basic features. Also, we DO NOT want HD shinovision effects like Darkplaces. We want subtle improvements that align with Quakiness such as AD does. I don't really care to have reflections. 16bit fog would be nice.
I'll add another couple desires:
Square particles for Darkplaces.
Twisty water for Darkplaces.
Fence texture support for Darkplaces and FTE.
Fence texture support on models in Darkplaces and FTE.
Merge MarkV features and Quakespasm and Retroquad into one highly cuatomizable QUAKE (2018) engine.
(Ok this last list is unrealistic)
#50 Is A Strong Post.
To be clear, I want more FANCY EFFECTS, but only introduced carefully and subtly as many of the current good ones have been.
Also, we DO NOT want HD shinovision effects like Darkplaces.
The eye-melting ass you're referring to is wrongfully attributed to Darkplaces. The blame belongs to the artist who misused the engine's capabilities. This would be the case with any engine. Darkplaces has the capability to look exactly like quakespasm, too.
Square particles for Darkplaces.
a quick edit of effectinfo.txt and particlefont.tga will get you this.
Twisty water for Darkplaces.
a quick shader referencing the water texture with tcMod turb will get you this as well (or something comparable). Same deal with fence textures.
I'm not trying to jump up your ass, I just wanted to correct some misinformation :D
Quake isn't bright enough for anything to reflect.
Darkplaces has the capability to look exactly like quakespasm, too.
Don't be daft. Quake engines shouldn't need user-made particle fonts or shaders to look like Quake.
Quake engines shouldn't need user-made particle fonts or shaders to look like Quake.
I agree with that 100%. Darkplaces should look vanilla out of the box (still puzzled as to why it doesn't). Fortunately, that vanilla look is five minutes of tweaking away. The 'misinformation' that I was referring to was that Darklpaces inherently looks like this
would you be interested in making a package consisting of the necessary config settings, modified particle.tga files etc. etc. that people can just download to have DP up and running in a non-eye-rapingly-offensive way?
because looking at effectinfo.txt - that is not a 5 minute fix unless you know exactly what you are doing, and the casual player most certainly will not.
good idea, putting that on my list. I just did a little test
and it turns out I was wrong, you don't need to touch effectinfo.txt. Just drop an any color/size image called particlefont.tga (i used 4x4, black) into id1/particles. However, I would mess around with effectinfo just to get it a little more "quakey".
Not A Black Image; Medium Gray.
Cheers killpixel, yeah a "DP-no-ass" package that can be slapped in the title post of the engines thread would be pretty useful.
Out of interest does DP run ad_sepulcher? Last I checked DP hasn't been updated since 2014 :p
DP has had development since then and has automated builds posted to https://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/files/?C=M;O=D
(doubt it can do sepulcher tho)
For me, because DP also changes some behaviors of lighting and physics, it doesn't seem worth fiddling with for "normal" Quake stuff (i.e. not taking advantage of DP-specific features).
@Kinn - DP-no-ass. I imagine that would be painful. But yeah, I would have liked such a mod before QS came around.
@Johnny Law - Yeah, same here. MarkV and Quakespasm fulfill my quake needs.
anyway, I won't clutter this thread with DP related suff anymore (apologies).
DP has had development since then
Good to know. The latest Windows 10 update has completely trashed mouse input in the 2014 DP build (same way it trashed mouse input in earlier versions of QS, but the latest QS has that fixed), so if the latest DP has fixed that, that's welcome.
But yeah, as a player, I can't really think of a reason why I should use anything other than Quakespasm. It feels right, it looks right, has proper controller support, and runs cooler on my laptop than any other engine by far - seriously, the fan doesn't even come on ever with QS, whereas it's blowing like a jet engine with every other engine I've tried - what's with that?
- A digs map.
- Release one or two maps myself.
- Halo Forerunner-themed mapjam
- Silent Hill Otherworld-themed mapjam
More solo releases. From myself or others.
Shorter jams with stronger themes(not that theyve been lacking lately). More than "use this texture set"
Id love to see people talk more openly about their design process. I included a changelog in my xmasjam entry and this is something Ill continue to do and then some.
Isn't the other issue people have with using DP the fact that it's pretty incompatible? Like, aren't there a bunch of cvars you need to change to get it to behave sorta like regular Quake, physics wise?
Something I want to do in 2018 is release a map that I'm proud of the gameplay for, and not just the visuals. Preferably as a solo release.
An improved model format. I don't want fancy features, just better (preferably floating point) accuracy on both vertices and texture coords. Normals can be easily reconstructed if needed (the original code in modelgen.c is a good base to work from).
What I'm talking about here is the equivalent of a BSP2 for MDLs. BSP2 had no fancy-dan features meaning it was easy to implement, meaning it actually *was* implemented, meaning it succeeded. Adding extra features - "can we have skeletal animation/multipart models/detachable limbs/32-bit skins/etc" - just increases the complexity of implementing. There are already plenty other formats that support those features - go implement one of those instead. What I'm talking about is a format that does what MDL does, does no more than what MDL does, but with better accuracy and raised limits.
Improved Model Format YES
Yea for me this is why MD3 would be a good one or IQM which has bone support! As for some new format be careful because that can get tricky with supporting proper exporters for various art authoring tools. Something that can convert an FBX file to this new format would be a good middleground since tons of software can export to FBX.
#24 Retroquad 1.0
Definitely not happening in 2018.
#26 Lightmaps on liquids
I've tried encouraging other engine coders to implement this in their engines, I've showed how to properly detect if a map was compiled with lit liquids, EricW coded full support for lit liquids in his compilers, but other engine coders were against it.
Mappers were also against it, by shutting down my suggestion of enabling lit liquids by default in EricW's compilers because not all engines supports it, despite there being no side effects in engines that doesn't support it. Interestingly, not all engines supports translucent water either, but nobody complains about translucent water being enabled by default.
Darkplaces does support it, and FTEQW probably does too. What's funny is, even if someone maps for DP, they'll never casually find out that DP does support lit liquids, because the map compilers won't lit the liquids by default.
If lit liquids were enabled by default, we'd have dozens of new maps using it already, and people would start to figure out how to take advantage of it in their maps.
So, it's not going to happen. People are against it.
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