|Posted by sikkpin on 2008/06/29 21:35:28|
|Before I explain everything here, I need to upload the file (preferably to Shub-Hub), but according to the rules there, I need a password to do so.
If someone would be kind enough to provide it, I can upload the file and then complete this post.
Thanks, in advance.
Ooh Oh Ooh Oh Oooh
Ctrl-tab did what tab does, but I'm just learning to hit tab in the mean time.
Necros already said pretty much what I would have so no need to repeat. The quick drop clip point is of course something I would like to do but it requires a lot of work to implement. Pretty much everything dealing with brush manipulation, window/mouse handling, etc. would need to be rewritten to handle the clip point. As it is now, it's basically just: if it's in clipmode do this, if not do that, but when you remove the "mode" it makes handling the clipping very complex. Plus I already have Ctrl+RMB in use :)
Tab is way easier than Ctrl+Tab. Learn it. Love it. ;)
I'll look into implementing the way Radiant moves entities. The check is already there so it should be simple. For now though there is the Quick Move feature which works for both brushes and point entities.
Final note for anyone: Please, let me know if you want me to send you current releases. I'm not necessarily keeping this to myself because I don't want others to use it until I feel it's ready, I just don't want to have a bunch of useless files up on Shub, making things confusing.
What's Happening With Those Sausages Charlie
I'm rethinking not asking for current releases. (I'm also mapping.)
New Version Released...
Sorry to anyone who has been waiting patiently. I've been sitting on this for about two months waiting to here back from necros for the word that everything is working ok but it seems that real life has gotten a hold of him.
So, anyways, here it is. It's still a beta and probably always will be but it is stable and, in my opinion, surpasses GTKRadiant in functionality and efficiency, at least for Quake editing. Updates will probably be a less frequent from now on. There really isn't all that much more I want to do, and the things I want to do are a bit beyond my skill at the moment, but I will keep chiseling away at it as I still find it enjoyable. The link's below and cheers to anyone who downloads it.
For any questions, email me or post here. And remember to read the readme before using. Those with previous version will have to remove QE3 registry entry.
Click link below to start download...
tbh, i forgot all about the editor. o.o i haven't even mapped in the last month.
on the other hand, i don't recall there being anything that was really bothering me either.
grats on this though, lots of work went into it.
ttfn for the new download
sikkpin: I havent given up on the editor but im still finishing off the SAME map in WC. But a promise is a promise...
The only translation I could find on Google was "ta ta for now" :)
As Said By Tigger
from whinnie the poo
sikkpin put a pic of the project settings please... i cant start the Editor :\
i�m puting the directorys all wrong
I ran into this AGES ago, but I probably went on my holidays straight after, with a fractured pinky, and forgot all about you, sorry...
when I click the central button in the second picture, it CTD.
Important Note For Everyone...
Some people may run into a problem starting this if they downloaded it within the first day that I posted the update. I didn't realize it until later that evening that I left my project file (quake.qe3) in the archive which means unless you use the same path structure I use it won't be able to find the "palette.lmp" file and therefore exit. I uploaded a "fixed" zip the next day, with Spirit quickly removing the old one from Shub and replacing it with the new so the link would still work.
So if you are one of those people, either re-download it, or simple delete the "quake.qe3" file. The latter being the easiest.
For RickyT23 & Trinca: If the above applies to you two, delete said file and try again. A "Project Settings" dialog should popup allowing you to enter all necessary paths. I recommend that you use the "Find" buttons so the formating is correct.
If the above does NOT apply then...
Trinca: You can use the "default.qe3" to help you with formating though it is slightly outdated as the "texturepath" should no longer have a wad at the end, just the folder name, and it doesn't contain a "defaultwads" key (which is written like: "wad1.wad;wad2.wad;..."). I kept it in there mainly for all of the useful BSP commands.
Or, if you let me know where you have it installed, I can fill out all the info for you here and you can just copy/paste.
RickyT23: If your "qe3.exe" file is located in your "...Id1/maps" dir (based on the pics), then your "Texture Directory" should be written like "gfx/" and the "palette.lmp" file should be put in there.
I'm assuming that the above applies to you both so I hope that your problems will be solved. I apologize for an inconvenience, you don't know how pissed I was at myself for leaving that file in there. If you still have problems I'll try and check back as regularly as possible to assist. Thank you for trying it out.
ok, thks i will try when i get home!
When You Start It
make sure you check out the 'window' menu on the far right side. it has many presets for different window layouts to help make you comfortable. :)
Tooltips Or Something?!
What's a Project Directory?
What's a Remote Basepath!?
Also, setting a Texture Directory only kept the last 3 characters of the location I selected via the dialog box.
Putting in stuff to hopefully get around this and try the editor now though. Just calling shit as I see it.
Could not load D:\Quake\qe3\maps/d:\quake\id1\textures\palette.lmp
GetLastError() = 123
Used default as a base (copy/pasted it, renamed to quake.qe3) and manually edited the paths and it worked.
Some first impressions:
- I miss texture move lock toggle via shift+T (gtkradiant also has texture rotate lock as shift+R)
- I have 2 monitors, and want my texture window on my secondary monitor, but it's currently clamped to my primary display.
- A way to change the display of the scale of the textures in the texture window.
General note: escape to close dialogs = win
I keep hitting ESCAPE wanting to get the textures window out of my face but I have to find T instead.
Is there a scroll bar for the texture window that I'm not seeing? Would be really handy instead of having to use mousewheel to scroll through all the textures to get to the lower ones.
For actual editing from what I've seen so far seems nice though.
*begs for tf2 support* ;)
Having this though, I'm getting the urge to make a Quake map again hehe :D
can anyone post a screen of this all filled out?
that�s my problem... ;) at me moment of course...
Yeah those menus are broken, have to edit the file manually.
Or at least I wasn't able to get that menu to work.
This worked for me:
Directory structure: D:\Quake\Quake\qe3\
All the contents of the package are extracted to qe3.
I must say the setup is very unintuitive. How can a first time user know what is meant by remote basepath etc?
And if you set it up wrongly then the program won't even start next time but close with a message about missing palette file.
After getting through the setup problems it starts too look very fine though. Still lack of documentation is a big problem but at least a command list can be found in Help menu.
To get the bsp menu working I have just copied this text at the bottom of quake.qe3 file in the scripts directory.
"bsp_NoVis" "!qbsp $"
"bsp_Entities" "!qbsp -onlyents $"
"bsp_Relight" "!qbsp -onlyents $ && !light $"
"bsp_FullVis (light -maxlt -extra4)" "!qbsp $ && !vis $ && !light -maxlight 1 -extra4 $"
"bsp_FullVis (light -extra4)" "!qbsp $ && !vis $ && !light -extra4"
"bsp_FullVis (no light)" "!qbsp $ && !vis $"
"bsp_FullVis (nowater)" "!qbsp -solid $ && !vis $ && !light $"
"bsp_FullVis" "!qbsp $ && !vis $ && !light $"
"bsp_FastVis (nowater)" "!qbsp -solid $ && !vis -fast $ && !light $"
"bsp_FastVis" "!qbsp $ && !vis -fast $ && !light $"
Please Make Noobler Friendly
Some editor needs to beat the existing editors in noobster friendliness.
You have every advantage, including that it is the only open source editor made by someone who "gets" mapping.
(Where as Worldcraft isn't open source and will be stuck in 2002 from now 'til doomsday and the other editors seem to not be very learnable).
As a general rule of thumb, you should be able to compile upon startup after loading a map without doing any settings. Default them to something a dumb user can easily comply with (i.e., decide what their Quake directory is .. don't ask them, etc.).
Remember, new users are always "dumb" because they have no experience. If you can satisfy the dumb user, you will as a bonus satisfy the user who is worried that they might discover they fall in the dumb group.
User noobster friendliness makes everyone happy. The advanced user will understand how to customize, and newbster can fumble around and start posting in the mapping help thread when his map won't compile because it doesn't have an info_player_start.
What I did with ToeTag was to eliminate configuration options. I supply your compiling tools and everything else that you need to make a level. All that I require from you is for you to tell me where your Quake directory is. Once you do that, you're good to go!
Hows the texure lock - during - rotations thingy going?
(or isnt it?)
Ankh thks i will try tonight!!!
Not so much. I have basic locking on drags (that works most of the time) but nothing for rotations. My math skills are so badly lacking that I haven't the first clue of how to even begin there.
It's on my list but it's probably one of those features that will never actually materialize.
"Hows the texure lock - during - rotations thingy going?"
My understanding from talking with a Half-Life mapping expert (Scrama) is that the standard .map format can't easily support texture rotation.
That's why in WC3.3/Hammer .map 220 format, they added some extra fields.
That Kinda Explained Why
the Worldcraft 1.6/a version was very "temperamental" .....
I don't think the user should be limited like that. It might good for beginners not to be swamped with lots of options, but advanced users usually want to tweak the editor to their liking. So basic->advanced options tabs would probably be a better solution.
The editor does not run on operating systems where people actually make choices themselves.
I've considered an "Advanced" button on the preferences dialog but since, maybe, 3 people are using the editor it really hasn't gotten near the top of my task list.
There is some validity in wanting to use custom tools for compiling and such but it's never been an issue for me personally so I've been slow to accommodate it.
Yes, you are correct. The Mac is not for anal retentive control freaks.
The editor is great.
I have some questions though.
Is there a possibility of grouping brushes like in Worldcraft?
Also there are no visgroups right?
Ankh: No visgroups yet. It is definitely planned for the next release. When that will be, I have no idea.
"What's a Project Directory?"
"What's a Remote Basepath!?"
Look in the "default.qe3" file for id's short description. The "Remote Basepath" is a legacy left over. It is used for assets that reside on a network server machine. I probably could have removed it but I think I left it in there for a reason, but I don't have the the code with me at the moment to tell you why. For now just set it the same as the "Project Directory"
"...Texture Directory only kept the last 3 characters ..."
This is from using the "Find" button, correct? I have never run into this problem so I don't really know what's happening here. Is the problem consistent?
"...texture move lock toggle via shift+T..."
Whenever I fix a bug that will enable the use of the "Shift" key for shortcuts this can be done. For now, Texture Lock locks for both move and rotate but eventually I'll split the two as unique commands.
"...texture window on my secondary monitor..."
This is not working because the Window Snapping feature doesn't handle anything but the primary display. I'll look into adapting it to handle multiple displays.
"...change the display of the scale of the textures..."
Ctrl+RMB+Drag. Look in the "QE3-mousecmds.txt" file in the "/docs" directory.
"...escape to close dialogs = win..."
Since "Escape" is used to deselect a brush, this can't happen because eventually the "Entity/Texture/Console", "Surface Inspector" and some other windows will be changed to be able to remain "on top" while editing.
"Is there a scroll bar for the texture window..."
RMB+Drag. Again, refer to "QE3-mousecmds.txt".
"...those menus are broken..."
How are they broken? What are they not doing correctly? They work fine for me.
I see now that I should have at least written a description about the Project Settings dialog. It was never my intention to design anything "noob friendly". I'm not trying to make an editor to please the masses or to get people who have never mapped before to start mapping, I just wanted to design an editor that I wanted to use. Hell, it's been almost a year and I still haven't been able to map yet. :). I do recognize my fault in not supplying proper setup documentation (what I wrote in the readme I though would suffice) but the setup will remain the way it is.
Is development still happening on this project?
I'm looking for a new Q1 editor to try out, as QuArK has been completely buggy shit for me, unfortunately. Constant errors doing the most basic things, and hell with textures. I love QuArK's grouping of map items, that just rocks. So easy to hide various areas of the map, or make them visible but unclickable and so on. But it is just too buggy for me to use.
This after giving up on GtkRadiant learning that it is incapable of doing Q1-style shapred brushes (spheres, cylinders, etc.) as it only handles Q3-style meshes. Lame.
I miss the days of using Qoole in the 90s, as it "just worked" almost always, and was really easy to use.
Try Worldcraft 3.3 And The Quakeadapter
thats what I use :)
i don't think sikkpin is working on this anymore. shame as there are a few minor but annoying bugs, but it's an excellent editor and i recommend it over gtkr.
I don't think I've ever used WorldCraft, as at the time it was popular I was already using Qoole and liking it. I went and looked for WorldCraft a few days ago, and found that it stopped development a few years ago, bought out by Valve. How "complete" is it? I'll go try to find 3.3 to download, thanks.
I also found a Qoole download, and while it has a bug with rotating objects allowing leaks, I can easily work around it. I'll see if it's as good as I remember it being from the 90s! :-P
Well, I have downloaded it and will give it a try. Qoole also used the one-2D/one-3D/one-texture layout, and I got really accustomed to it, and prefer it to the three-2D layouts, as I tend to only focus on one of them anyhow.
Forgot to include my "Samus Aran" nickname in the last posting, oops! I'm surprised this message board lets it post without at least filling in a nickname.
WC 3.3 Is A Good Editor, Definately Worth A Try.
Its basically Hammer editor, fully developed and stuff. Customizable views, easy to use interface.
It was used for Half-Life levels, and there is a tool which converts Quake .wad files into hlwad format included in the Quakeadapter package, and the TxQBSP tool compiles Quake maps directly from this format. Its a good system, and the Quakeadapter makes it all work with no fuss at all.
A couple of people had troubles getting it to work on ATI cards, but some other people had no problems, I would give it a try ive been using it for years with no hassle.
Are there any tools good for converting high quality JPEG/Targa textures into the very strange Quake 8bit palette? I run into issues where auto-conversion disregards the special fullbright entries in the palette, making the resulting textures look horrible.
Also, is there any way to use a custom 8bit palette for Quake? I am not using any of the official Quake textures, though the default monster/item skins are still being used. I am currently working on a very bright level (office building taken over by monsters) with 100% custom textures, so it's a pain when they look so awful in-game.
I use the Dark Places engine for actually playing levels, and it has support for 24bit texture overrides in .pk3 files, but I would still like the stock Q1 to look acceptable when distributing the level to people not using Dark Places.
Log in and it fills in the name automatically.
I use photoshop and TexMex for textures, you'll have to convert textures to indexed colours and load in the Quake palette if you go that route.
If you haven't got a big pile of money lying in the corner then you could try using Paint Shop Pro, which is free and apparantly has automativ palette conversion in the latest version.
TexMex is basically a decent frontend for Quake textures and can do some useful stuff, like extracting from .bsp.
I use GIMP for pretty much any image editing I do, and it's free so there's no barrier to entry there. The first thing I did was created a copy of the quake palette with all of the fullbrights changed to black. This way when you automatically convert textures, the fullbrights are never mapped, as the program always uses the first colour for black pixels.
In order to get the best texture conversion in GIMP, you need to know about a strange, seemingly undocumented feature: pasting a 24 bit colour image from the clipboard into an index image performs an automatic conversion which matches colours better than any of the "mode->indexed..." conversion methods. It isn't always the ultimate answer though, because it performs no dithering, meaning on subtle gradients you get banding.
My current favoured method is to take the full colour texture, copy it to the clipboard, then apply "positioned" dithering to convert it to the quake palette. I then paste the contents of the clipboard to get the better colour matching version I described before, and convert the pasted layer into a regular layer with an alpha channel.
Then it is a matter of experimenting with portions of the two version by painting on the alpha channel of the top layer. Usually I look for areas which display banding, and expose the lower layer to see if the dithering is an improvement. Sometimes areas on textures which are meant to be noisy end up too uniform without dithering - rusty areas are often examples of this. So paint them out on the alpha channel as well. The nice thing about this is that you don't need to worry about undoing anything; if exposing the lower layer doesn't improve it any, then you can easily paint the top layer back in.
I'll admit that usually when I'm doing this, I am converting textures I've created myself for quake. When I'm doing that, I'll work in full colour to blend/dodge/burn etc, but only paint with base colours from the quake palette. So I'm stacking the deck in my favour there. If you're starting with an texture which was never intended for quake, you may have to perform some colour adjustment to it. Trying to adjust specific channels to nudge an image towards one of the quake palette ranges has never worked well for me, but reducing saturation can help for vibrant images. It's a balancing act though, wash it out too much and you'll be worse off as everything maps to the limited grey ranges.
It is possible to replace the quake palette entirely if you can't get good results
has the details of what you need to do, using
You still need everything in one palette though, and there might be a trick to getting glquake to play along. I remember making "noir quake", which just mapped all of the quake palette to sepia tones, and having to mess about to get glquake to forget the standard palette.
Everyone's got their preferred methods. Knowing how methodologic you are Preach yours are probably better.
I tend to do alot of modifying existing textures so my method works for what I'm doing.
And yeah, converts from brand new textures typically have alot of issues, it's rare that you won't have to repaint some once they're in the game.
As opposed to merging two different versions I tend to try pixel painting now. I find it's alot easier than you'd think to achieve reasonable results - especially with cloning tools.
A recurring problem (I haven't found a decent yardstick to solve it yet) is that artists get too focused on what they see in the art program and don't develop the conceptualisation of what it will actually look like in game.
Thank you all for your helpful suggestions, it's very much appreciated.
I have been using Gimp for my image editing for the past 9 or 10 years, so your tips are great. I was trying to figure out how I could get a copy of the Quake palette into Gimp, as I only see a file called palette.lmp or something, and I have no idea how to open or convert the .lmp file into something usable -- could you post your Gimp palette somewhere for me?
Basically what I am doing is using the full size 24bit JPEG textures for the level, but want to make the ones appearing on standard Quake at least not look totally awful/broken. I was experimenting tonight with using the texture overrides, and it looks great when it works (I've run into an issue where the overrides are working in Dark Places on one OS, but not on another, no idea why).
One thing I have noticed even with the 24bit JPEG textures, is that Quake (at least my Dark Places) expects textures to be a bit dark, as light cast onto fairly bright/vibrant textures makes them way too bright and washed out to see clearly. So I think I'll be darkening most of the textures a bit.
palette.lmp can probably be loaded as a RAW image, if you specify 3 bytes per pixel, 16 pixels wide, 16 pixels tall (for 256 pixels.) With the image loaded maybe you can generate a palette file from the colors in the image? I know in photoshop you could switch to indexed color and choose "exact colors" for the palette generation method.
I know in photoshop you could switch to indexed color and choose "exact colors" for the palette generation method.
this is what i did. in fact, i went even further: i created palettes for only fullbrights, without fullbrights, only flame fullbright, etc... also, when converting, it pays to sometimes make a custom palette with say, all blues removed (or maybe only bright blues removed) to make it look right with the dithering.
also, the type of dithering you use has an impact as well. some textures will look good with a pattern dither, other times varying levels of diffusion will look better, and noise is good for smooth, but non-repetitive stuff.
Just To Specify,
i created palettes for only fullbrights, without fullbrights, only flame fullbright, etc...
what i meant was i'd take the full palette image with all 256 colours, and then change all the colours i didn't want to black. then i'd go back to index mode and save the exact palette photoshop made.
Yeah, you can create a palette from an existing image, find something in quake colours, then right click on an existing palette, select import palette, and choose the image as your source. But for ease of use:
Both palettes included.
"Also, is there any way to use a custom 8bit palette for Quake?"
The Half-Life map format.
Supported engines: DarkPlaces, ProQuake, Qrack, FuhQuake, ezQuake, Telejano, FTEQW
Tutorial to add HL map support:
Bottes Ugg Soldes
in spite with this particular as bathing may be also enjoyable, in no way get far from your toddlers within of the bath tub by themselves. ordinarily attend for the little one to stop petty accidents <strong>bottes ugg soldes
here's a list of bugs that i've found during the use of the editor.
also a few features i'd love to have, but aren't absolutely required.
Mostly for baker, but Sikkpin, if you ever swing on by again... ^_^
Thank You Sir
I can't promise any fast action on this.
But we damn well need a good open source map editor and I'm a stubborn bastard and have no intention of going anywhere.
At some random time, I may be asking you questions about how to "tune" this editor.
And I'll make some sort of grand Windows installer for it that sets it up all nice and neat [like the Quake Adapter for Worldcraft 3.3 that I made in '06] or maybe I'll recode QER a bit to make it happen.
It installs worldcraft in c:\program files, and not c:\programs files (x86) in windows 7. Not so grand.
I Made It In 2006
Sheesh! In 2006, who knew what the future held. No Vista, no Windows 7, 64-bit existed in the fringe. It was a creation of that era and I didn't know better nor did I know what the future held.
Re; QE3 Dev
either ask here or just go ahead and send me emails. i don't mind discussing this kind of thing.
I'm happy that someone is interested in continuing the work on this editor. I felt bad for leaving it out to dry like that (especially for necros who put a lot of time into the editor, mapping, documenting bugs and all that) but I've just never had the time to get back into it, and any free time I did have was used for idTech 4 stuff.
Anyway, I have a build here that may be newer than the last version I put up, but I'm not sure. It's been years since I've touched this shit. If anyone's interested, I can zip it up and upload a raw dump of my files. It may not have anything new but who knows...
i was pretty impressed with the stuff you did on the d3w forums so it was worth it, i think. :)
i have QuakeEd 3 beta build 105, but then again, i have two executables that are build 105 but have different timestamps and file sizes.
probably safe to upload your files.
Was a version of QE3 with multiple 2D views ever publically released? It's been a long while for me as well since using this, and I don't have a PC box around to check.
It largely comes down to philosophical differences and preferences, and it's not too big a deal to tab between 2d views, but with a nice big hi-res screen it would be nice to see everything at once, even if it's slightly redundant.
Also, everything necros said about bugs and features. All that's a higher priority than extra 2d views really.
yeah... sikk programmed in a bunch of great presets that can make it look like almost anything. on top of that, you can do whatever you want with the windows and they snap together.
aside from those numerous bugs, i still find this to be my ideal editor. i wish you could customize the hotkeys though. i mean, we've got quake where you can bind anything to everything, yet the editor has builtin hotkeys. :P never really considered the irony of that before.
Could you bundle up your latest and upload and post link here? Doesn't matter if it has bugs.
Uploading to a public thread is superior to private communications, you can't rule out other parties with an interest in your work or with useful things to say about QER.
If its a viable alternative when the next version is up (which it sounds to be) then I'll switch to it.
i remembered another bug that wasn't on the original list i posted. i've updated the list:
the only addition is this:
Vertex Manipulation: The area around a vertex/edge dot that is selectable appears to be a fixed size. ie: If you zoom in, the selection area is huge and if you zoom out far enough, it's pretty much impossible to select a vertex. the selection size should be constant, irregardless of zoom level.
What about the source? Shouldn't that be included in every release? What license is the original QuakeEd source under? I'd like to look at how you are doing vertex manip in this editor.
If It's Based On Radiant
Then it's gpl.
The Source Is In This Thread Somewhere
A bit hard to find, you'll need to look through to find it.
The Source Should Be In The Archive
Any version I uploaded had the source included. But, no matter, here's the latest source. And, like I said earlier, it may be no different than the last beta (v188.8.131.52) I put up.
And yeah, the one I downloaded did contain source - I just overlooked the rar. Sorry.
Decided to give this a whirl and one thing is bothering me. Made a little test room and have it textured. When I quit and reload the map I only get the blue/black checker everywhere and (afaik) no view option to show my applied textures. Placing a texture on a face causes the rest of that brush to revert back to the way they were textured when I saved the file. Maybe I'm missing something obvious here?
you probably didn't specify the wad file in the wad key?
Ah! Got it working, cheers.
sorry to bump this thread for such a small thing but i noticed i forgot to re-upload the bug list i made on this when i switched to slipgateconstruct.
i've since re-uploaded it.
(the old link also works now, thanks to spirit's url redirection!)
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. It seemed the links here were somewhat dead. Here is a zip I just made of the editor as it was installed on an old hard drive. Should work.
Good save raptore. I'll re-upload that to Quaketastic too. I'm dropping it in the "tools" folder... since it includes the source code, I didn't drill down further into "windows", but if anyone feels like it should be moved somewhere that's fine.
Hmm, I uploaded it to Quaketastic but don't see it there? Maybe waiting for approval or something?
Your Upload Must Have Failed
I did not receive any notification of an upload, which means something didn't work. Please try again.
Tried a couple more times, no dice. It gets to 100% uploaded, then it auto-refreshes the page, but file not there. *shrug* I dunno. This is using Chrome on OS X.
Just Tested It
with latest Chrome on latest OS X, works fine for me. Sorry. Try it with Safari maybe?
Nope, still no luck... I'll leave it to someone else.
Here's some links to keep the files alive. First is the last "official" release (version 1.0.5) and the second is the source code dump I had posted above which may or may not have new stuff in it.
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