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So When Did The Decline In Quake 2 SP-content Happen?
When I started mapping for Quake 2 last year it was on the base of bingeplaying a whole shitload of Quake 2-maps that I've got from over the internet after I finally got to play through the two mission packs in 2015. I was at that point unaware of the scene for making maps for Quake 2.

So one year later, where's everyone? Quake has a renaissance in singleplayer-content but Quake 2 is just... me and one other guy I don't even know exists (yes, I'm calling you out, Citadel-guy).

I want to make sure that for its 20th anniversary I'll have something worth playing. However, due to being able to find so little for this game on the internet that I can use quickly (I've scrapped a lot of ideas already due to not having the time to edit the source code to get all the unused animations for Strogg in or the items/weapons, like being able to start with no weapon at all and have to pick up the blaster), I've decided that I am going to keep it as vaniller as possible and use only what's possible to do in a v.320 install fresh from your CD or Steam.

I hope I can get more people in on making some kwolitee content for this game in time for its anniversary. There's already a $10000 tournament announced for it at The Con Of Quake this year, but we can do better!
 
Around 2003 and 2004 
/thread 
 
Not Sure Dude 
Did follow the Q2 scene quite avidly for a few years, but it didn't hold my attention like Quake did. Still a great game but maybe Quake is more distinctive and the custom content especially so. 
But Gameplay Mechanics...! 
Quake 2 has a lot of nice gameplay mechanics. You can do a lot more with the environment and you get coloured(!) lighting. I've found creating singleplayer-content for Quake 2 more fun than for Quake because you can do so much, like almost recreate Half-Life in it or even newer games due to its versatility. Everything that's not used to block leaks can be destructible, and there's simple physics as well so you can fake destruction with consequences.

I know multiplayer Quake 2 is still alive to this day and I've played some too at the Tastyspleens, but I think it's time to bring singleplayer back. 
And Count Macanah In, 
as he released a pack of sp maps recently on Quake2cafe and in Tastyspleen.

Also Giftmatcher as he released in 2016 a pack of 4 singleplayer maps. He is lately with Quake but maybe has something on the works for Quake 2 too.

And maybe you count Musashi too, its has been several years since he released his last one but maybe he is still at it. http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60973

And answering your question. I have a pack of singleplayer maps that i found, ordered by year and the numbers are ...

1998 - 88
1999 - 34
2000 - 17
2001 - 5

So if we consider this to be the majority of sp maps here, its safe to assume that there was never much to begin with and that it withered quickly and died when Yhe1 said. 
 
Quake 2 is repetitive af...

Base, base, base..., base-base... basebasebase, base...
base... base... base...
base, base, base,
base! base? base...

You BASEically have one theme, which gets boring after 20 maps.

It would be cool to see some bigger mod for Quake2, with more varied enemies and some fresh texture set. 
Recreate Half-Life In It Or Even Newer Games. 
And for that reason, I'm out. 
 
It died when Ten Four stopped being updated. At least for me. The forums kept going but it looks like the entire site is gone now.

Q2 does have far too much base though.

Cocerello: if that's all you've got, you're missing some. I've got about 170 releases saved. + 7 of my own. The only thing I've got for Q2 in the last 4 years is older.zip and I'm yet to play it. So if guys like Macanah, Giftmatcher, Musashi all have releases that are good then they may want to work on their marketing.

Plus 5 mission packs (Xaero, Juggernaut, Oblivion, Reckoning and Ground Zero).

So maybe there's about 200 decent worth-playing releases? Maybe about 1/3 of what Quake has. 
Kona 
I have more (60 or so more), plus a pack of 1 Gbyte of random sp or mp maps that i haven't checked what it has in, but that other pack i talked about in #5 has them ordered by year making easy to check for Quakeulf's question, and seems to have (144) most of the releases i have.

I suppose that i am missing some, but i don't worry much about, there is going to be always several missing and i don't aim to have a collection of them. I would if Quaddicted had them like it has for Quake, to complete the web, but i know that Spirit has already at least both big packs i have.


Quakeulf: most of what can be done in Quake 2 can be done in Quake nowadays and sometimes more with the new compilers, tools and Quoth, and that makes harder to get more people onto Quake 2 instead that onto Quake mapping.

But i value positively Quake 2, for playing or for multiplayer mapping mainly, like the weapons and items who are miles away from Quake's simple and repetitive ones. 
My Only Restraint Is Vaniller 
That Quake is now more advanced than Quake 2 only means the game isn't Quake anymore, except for in name and use of some entities and textures.

When using newer clients to workaround the original's limitations you are effectively creating a new version of the game that's gradually shifting in shape away from its origin. That there are maps out there that won't work unless you play them in a non-id client is proof of that. That they also have coloured lighting and fog-effects with custom interactions further makes a case for this. There is nothing bad about this, it's just that it's technically advanced beyond Quake because you need a custom solution to make it work.

I also used to have a lot of Quake 2-content (mostly multiplayer though), and SPoG's Quake 2 SP-map is what got me into making maps for Quake 2 in the first place.

I have tried to reach out to more mappers for Quake 2 on the Quake 2 Café. Hopefully more will show up. 
Quakeroulf, Is It? 
Good point.

Fog is the new pipes 
My Opinion 
Is quake 2 easy to modify, when it comes to monster behavior? One of reasons why I never finished maps for q2 was because of gameplay, ai was weird and it didn't feel as challenging or fun to fight against them than in doom or quake1. 
The Monster Behaviour 
Well, there is a bit you can do with the Strogg:

http://tastyspleen.net/~panjoo/rust/tutorials/21/21.html

The reason why it can feel a little unchallenging is that at some point in the game you get the power armour and it makes you almost invincible. (Then again attempt the game on nightmare/hard+ difficulty and you will struggle a bit.) There's also the fact that some Strogg are a little too slow and they get stuck easily. However, this can be solved by proper placement to accomodate their shortcomings. 
 
Whoever says Quake 2 is repetitive "base, base, base" hasn't paid attention or has bad memory. There are nine different units with completely different texture themes that make for varied environments. There's mine, palace, sewer, power, etc.

Classic Quake on the other hand can be split into two themes: base and Gothic. I'd argue that Quake 2 is a lot more varied and it's a shame that more SPQ2 maps aren't being made for it. 
Teckstyuurs 
I can also argue for the fact that vaniller Quake 2 allows for a lot more variety in styles than Quake does. However, with outside development anything can be possible. 
 
Forgot to mention space levels too.

But yes, the problem isn't that Quake 2 itself doesn't offer enough variety - the problem is that the majority of custom single player levels made for the game are base-themed. I imagine it's because the easiest to work with, as the textures for some of the other themes are intended to be used in conjunction with more complex brush work. 
 
There are nine different units with completely different texture themes that make for varied environments. There's mine, palace, sewer, power, etc.

But it's still base, base, base...
Someone had nice idea to make base but in a jungle, that could be something different.
Huge trees, roots coming into industrial complex, maybe some swamp and of course a little bit of base :D 
 
I would like to map and play more Quake 2, but the fact that the files are a mess, as even the textures are individual files, and its hard to keep track of things and get assets as everything is a mixed random mess of files, so i lose more and more interest, and if mapping I keep it to only to the vanillaest possible.

I miss what we have on Quake, that most maps are just a .bsp and sometimes a .lit file too, and to get a texture pack is very easy in contrast to Quake 2, as they are barely shared, and on maps there are bits here and there, made more difficult to get and complete the pack as there are people that name the folders of the textures they used of a pack differently from others, so i have to search, check and join them like a puzzle for an hour or more just to get a texture pack.

Classic Quake on the other hand can be split into two themes: base and Gothic

That would be Quake 3 there, as Quake has no gothic theme.

Also, that Quake themes are base, medieval, wizard and runic/metal, and so were split into 4 wads by id. 
Re: #17 
That's like saying New York City and Prague are the same since they're both still cities, cities, cities. 
Re: #19 
exactly, Quake has more than one setting. Medieval, runic, base etc

You might not get bored of playing in cities because of all the detail cities have but the strogg BASE theme sure af does not have the same variety as a human city :P 
 
If you guys really want to have quake2 maps, just go map - there is easy tools nowadays. 
I Still Use GTKRadiant 
And I have no problem mapping for Quake 2.

Observe this guide:

http://maps.rcmd.org/tutorials/q2_mapping_today/

There are no excuses other than "I have no interest in it". 
 
If you guys really want to have quake2 maps, just go map

Amen (,amen,amen)

ps
But maybe introduce some new texture sets (?) 
Quake 2 Is A Tough Sell For Me 
There are a lot of things to like about Quake 2 from a mapping perspective. I actually worked on Zaero with Team Evolve so I have played a ton of the game. I played a bunch of DM and made a few lame box maps for Q2 as well.

But for me it's the physics and speed of the game I dislike. I just doesn't feel right to me. It feels loose and rubbery. Once Q3Test came out I literally never touched Quake2 again until last year when doing some research. The game just didn't grab me like Q1 and Q3.

So as far as mapping, I think the coolest thing about Q2 mapping is you can make an invisible brush emit light, making it much easier to light large areas. Also 16 bit color pallette? I think - right? I assume we can do this stuff now in Quake with Tyrutils-ericw.

Go map. There's nothing wrong with loving Quake 2! 
 
Quake's medieval and wizard themes are pretty much indistinct; they can be categorized together.

Quake's metal theme is runic and relies heavily on iron; it could also be described as "iron age runic".

And the official mission packs introduced a notable set of textures inspired by antique Egyptian/Mayan/Greek civilizations.

So, Q1 has:
Base,
Medieval,
Iron age runic,
Ancient civilizations.

Base & iron age runic are about materials, while medieval and ancient civilizations are about civilizations. Materials-based themes are good for gimmicks, while civilizations-based themes are good for atmosphere.

Also, Quake alternates its themes a lot. The start map mixes everything, then the episodes comes with base, medieval, runic, base, medieval, base, runic, base, medieval, and a mix of medieval with runic. This helps to keep things fresh, specially in the first episode. 
 
I feel like I should try making a Q2 map now... with Q1 textures. It would surely be the most popular Q2 map on this forum. 
 
someone should convert SPOG into a Quake base map 
It Never Happen ! This Is Fake News ! 
 
There's plenty of awesome Q2 textures out there, people just never used them. Look at all the idtech2 games you can steal textures from, even half the q3 stuff and hl can be converted. Not that hl ever had any good textures. 
I'd Like To Play Around With Q2 
Might try to make a small map in October, just to get the feel of Quake 2. We shall see 
Please Do! 
It's always nice to see what people can do for the 2 of Quake. :3 
 
Oh, yeah, now I remember. Another problem with Quake 2 level design is that it relied more on colored lighting than on textures to define the environments.

Some areas are mostly red, some are mostly yellow, others are mostly blue... It was their first game with colored lighting, so they ended up focusing too much on making sure that the players would notice it. And it's easier to notice variations of colored lighting across the same textures than across different texture sets, because when the textures are different, we can't be too sure of whether the colors are coming from the lighting or from the texture itself.

Quake had a bunch of similar textures with different colors. However, the changes in color usually were associated with subtle changes in the material - the green variant of the brown bricks is green because there's mud on it. The Quake 2 approach of relying too much on colored lighting to represent environmental changes works a lot smoother, but is also simplistic. This is why it looks more bland for some people. 
Heavy On The Color 
Also is less realistic, not that we care about that ;) 
Color Is Fine. 
Look at NewHouse's maps or Unreal 1, they're very colorful and personally I love it. 
 
Unreal does have greater texture variation than Q2, though, which is also thanks to using 16-bit colors. But Quake 2 has better architecture.

IMHO, while Unreal has some flaws, Quake 2 has some weak points. Quake 2 could be better, but I wouldn't say it's flawed. And Unreal could be more polished. 
I Did A Text On Quake 2's Architecture 
Right here:

https://colonthreeenterprises.tumblr.com/post/149101737526/some-of-my-personal-favourite-details-of-quake-2

It's those little details that make all the difference in the world. 
Funny How Your Collection Of Pics 
in that article actually feels more Q1 than Q2... 
Quakeulf 
My favorite from your post are these:
screenshot 1

screenshot 2

screenshot 3

Your Quake 2 unit looks really impressive and fun, by the way. I gotta play it when I get around to playing Quake 2 again. 
Base Base Base Base Eggs And Base 
 
You Don't Get It, Do You? 
Well, allow me to spell it out for you:

Quake 2 is absolutely based.

B3 
To The Mankrip 
Thanks, man. I hope it will be worth it.

Also, yes, Quake 2 does share elements with Quake but that's because they are great architectural elements, universal in application.

It is recommended to study up on architecture when doing this kind of level design, lest you end up with a McMansion. 
Megaman 
Actually, looking at that video (it's been ages since I've played Q2), the theme isn't the problem.

The problem is that most of the environments looks sterile. Too sterile.

It lacks mud, grass, slime, wood, gore, and so on, yet it doesn't try to achieve the clean look of the first Portal game. This makes it end up in a middle ground with no contrasts in its personality. Liveliness is made of contrasting elements that manages to coexist together, giving the impression of a dynamic balance between its parts. The lack of contrast in the environmental elements of Quake 2 makes it seem too static, despite of its visual effects such as rotating models.

Romero's gore was surely missed in it. 
Stroggos Is A Desert 
The Strogg planet is a dry planet very much like Mars. It's probably in its last dying phase before it loses its atmosphere.

The "sterile" look (it's all rather rusty, worn and dirty to me) is probably because it's been blown clea by the winds, and that there are no plants or squishy little organisms that can inhabit abandoned spaces anymore. 
Quakeulf 
Storyline is not an excuse to be bland, I think you'll agree. You still can be contrastingly vibrantly dry and dying in an epic manner. 
 
But thanks for the inspiration. It's giving me the itch to install Q2 again. 
 
I'm still convinced that at least 95% of people only play through the first few units in Quake 2 and form an opinion of the rest of it based on what they see there.

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/MHQ2Shots/quake14.jpg

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/MHQ2Shots/quake15.jpg

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/MHQ2Shots/quake16.jpg 
Bland Orangey Base Everywhere Art Style Aside. 
After having played thru Citadel last week I don't miss Q2's game play at all.

I really wish they would have designed that the enemies give you 100-250 milliseconds before they respond from 1 pixels worth of LoS.

Especially given that so many weapons have delay(Hyper Blaster, Chaingun, Grenades, BFG). The Rocket Launcher while not delayed will not fire again until the first fired rocket has exploded. Then there's the weapon switching which has, ofc, delay. Walking in water is... delayed. See a pattern here.

It was quite funny in Citadel, he had a horde fight but horde fighting with slow weapon switching and delayed weapons firing is just... a no go. It doesn't work.

Maybe others have a different experience? I'm not saying it's completely rubbish, I'm just saying that it doesn't really make me want to play an old Quake game like Q1 still can do.

On a positive note though, RAILGUN bithes!! hehe 
 
Especially given that so many weapons have delay(Hyper Blaster, Chaingun, Grenades, BFG). The Rocket Launcher while not delayed will not fire again until the first fired rocket has exploded. Then there's the weapon switching which has, ofc, delay. Walking in water is... delayed. See a pattern here.

This is probably because of Citadel's brush with the expansions, because the original game lets you fire rockets as much as you want. Chaingun starts firing right away, just takes a while to spin up. Same for the hyperblaster. 
Mang.... 
Maybe my game was bugged :( So sorry. Disregard I guess everything about the weapons other than slow switching, *sighs.

I loaded up both stock Quake2 and Kmquake2 and gave all... seemed "normal"

Thanks for the heads up Vigil. 
Delays In Weapon Switching 
I have to agree that instant weapon switching is still the most elegant solution and one that is hard to improve on.

Quake 3 has a shorter amount of weapon switch time (along with a neatorini "swish"-sound) than Quake 2, which makes it tolerable, but only in comparison with Quake 2's slow weapon switching.

(Even CS:GO has semi-instant weapon switching. There's a lot you can do with cancelling of the animations etc.) 
Fixed 
#52 
Like 40 people visit this board regularly. Weve all heard of quetoo. If not from you spamming it, were aware of it because were all familiar with its creator jdolan.

Please stop. 
Mukor Is Right -- But Something To Add ... 
Really the problem is that QuakeElf hasn't played Q1 single player releases.

You can tell that he hasn't.

If QuakeElf were to play a single high quality Q1 single player release, he would not talk about Q2 single player ever again. Fact.

Keep in mind, the Q2 link spammer agrees with me.

He keeps posting links to Q2 multiplayer-only packages (Quake II starter, Quetoo).

Because even the Q2 link spammer doesn't think Q2 single player is any good.

And the Q2 link spammer is right.

QuakeElf hasn't played any custom Q1 single player releases (Hell In A Can, Insomnia, Once Upon Atrocity, Rubicon, Beyond Belief, Destroy Base, Nehahra, SM32, Marcher Fortress, The Colony) and if he did he would no longer be interested in Q2 at all.

QuakeElf -- your journey begins here ...

https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/casspq1.html 
 
lol I been trying to tell Andrea Rosa to play Quake for years, he keeps turning me down lol 
Satanic Spaghetti 
Hell In A Can
I never could manage to make this one work, either in DP or QS: the lift doesn’t work like it should, thence not triggering the rest of the map properly. Does it need a specific mod that's not listed in the readme or something? 
 
If QuakeElf were to play a single high quality Q1 single player release, he would not talk about Q2 single player ever again. Fact.

It's like 1998 all over again. 
I Have Played Quake 1 SP Levels... 
I play not just Quake 2, but Quake, Quake 3, Doom and Doom 2. I've played a fair share of maps and WADs and mods and add-ons and so forth, but I like Quake 2.

I've played far more Quake over the years than Quake 2, but I've played Quake 3 more than both of those games combined.

Right now, I'm into Quake 2. Things might change, and it's just my personal preference.

(Regarding Quetoo I liked their "interview" with Panjoo. Is he here?) 
@Mugwump - Hell In A Can 
The elevator control is actually bound to a use key, that is shown in the help screen, normally accessed through the escape menu. It is extremely poorly explained and the only real problem with this map. After you learn to use the elevator it becomes fun again. 
 
QuakeElf hasn't played any custom Q1 single player releases (Hell In A Can, Insomnia, Once Upon Atrocity, Rubicon, Beyond Belief, Destroy Base, Nehahra, SM32, Marcher Fortress, The Colony) and if he did he would no longer be interested in Q2 at all.

By todays standards, most map jam packs are a better build quality, visually, than Hell in a Can or BB. Destroy Base? Is that this? https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/cdestroy.html ummmmm... 
 
Quake 2 is all about MP for most people (including me). I enjoyed Q2 SP for what it was but as far as SP goes Q1 is definitely a more action packed game with tighter design than Q2's hub levels. I enjoy playing Q2 co-op when drunk and practicing trick jumps on the map while my co-op partners get objectives done but other than that I don't really do much SP stuff. I also think people care more about mods like Vortex rather than proper campaigns. 
Did You Ever Play... 
Zaero? I did the sound design for it and it's arguably better in many ways from the official mission packs.

We had some fun MP weapons too. 
@anonymous Poster 
I appreciate your passion and commitment but you've posted a bunch of these invites. The people from func who are interested are surely already a part of you discord.

Enough already. Good luck. 
Lol 
Remember Quake Elf on a Shelf?

It was funny while it lasted. 
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