gb you make a good point about the fact that silly kill mesages were already in the game, so I have tried to think why that doesn't bother me... I think it is something about the breaking of illusion between the world of the game and the game itself, which does sound very fuzzy, but here is what I mean:

The messages that pop up to tell the player he 'got eviscerated by a fiend' is a message from the game itself along with 'you got some shells', the games master of our D&D campaign is giving us information, sometimes comically. But the Enforcer calling the player a 'noob' is a character within the game suddenly leaping out into the world of internet multiplayer and throwing a cliche at me. An enforcer is part of the world of the game, it is not a gamer in a multiplayer match, who I will spam :}}}}} at

I feel that this is probably why it rubs me personally, and it may totally be something no-one else has a problem with.

And yes, Romero did put his head in Doom 2, and his voice, but they weren't overt. It's a weird easter egg that is disguised in the normal game to not be noticed, like the Rot Fish. Daikatana takes Romero's cheesiness to the extreme and really does feel stupid when your high-pitched crap-japanese-accented sidekick says 'suck it down'. Again, it's a difference between the world the game gives us and the game itself.

I'm really not trying to be pointlessly negative or snarky, and your replies do force me to rationalise my thoughts on it. But they are genuine. 

Part of ID's original design concept for Quake was to have the Ogre pissing on the player after killing him.

Part of the original design was a third person action game where you were Thor. Sometimes stuff that is changed or missed out is a good thing. 

and I think he made a very good argument that the insult was dished out by the game rather than by the enemy. And even if the "original concept" for the ogre was to piss on the player - it's not in the game, so that doesn't count. I would really prefer it if the enemies don't talk (english, at least). They can eat my corpse or even piss on it, because that would fit with the idea I have of their characters. For me, Quake enemies don't talk to me. At least not in a way that I can understand. 

...in ID Quake talks in English. 

wow. 

but it's still almost unintelligible... and he doesn't taunt me, either. I think the only things he says is "stop" and "you there", is it? 

This is why I like working with smart people. 

Going completely off-topic, I reckon those voices are most likely Romero. He was heavily involved in the sound element of the game, and would be a prime candidate. 

corpe humping

W00T!?!?! 

I guess you don't really have any good counter arguments or are you just being smug and dismissive for the fun of it? 

Whats the bind for it, or does it work at all? 

I�m at work, and don�t have time for your trolling. 

It is "+hook", just like in most old school quake mods. Sorry, we should have given a message; this will be fixed.

Sleepwalkr et al.: You're really counting beans now, right. Just admit that you have no real argument, or you'll descend into pure trolling.

Flatiron: I know that, but it has really little to do with why you don't like the blaster sound. It was a strawman argument, so I said you were grasping at straws to defend your position.

ZQF: I respect your opinion, but we'll have to agree to disagree. 

Part of the original design was a third person action game where you were Thor.

Indeed, and so Quake's first mission pack promptly included Thor's mighty hammer, Mjolnir. I think the name "Thor" is actually in there as well. From there, along with a couple other things, it made its way into Quoth (admittedly without the lightning), which as we all agree, does everything right.

Hence, why should RMQ not have ogres pissing on the player? I'll tell you, the only reason was because none of us wanted to model an ogre cock until now. I guess some people here would actually love to debate what a true Ogre cock needs to look like in order to be Quake. More like the rocket launcher, or more Perforatorish? 

We could detect the player name and then, if it corresponds to a certain list make the Ogres have Quad, Pent, and dimension door, and then piss on the head after they gib them... 

Teabagging could be the non-cock alternative. 

I was actually genuinely curious as to why I have certain feelings and experiences with some mods and games and different ones with others. But apparently no one else cares about really discussing this sort of thing so nm 

So I figured you used _luma instead of fullbrights, but forgot to include them for the buttons, thats why they are not very visible.

How it should looks http://i.imgur.com/AX8f1.jpg it blinks too, so now you wont miss the buttons in the dark.

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/misc/e2m1rq.zip - unpack into /textures obviously 

I see where' you're coming from. Things inside the world should ideally only 'know' about their world.

Having said that, no creation is uninfluenced by others. Of course, there's a big difference between Ogres looking like leatherface and monsters using DM taunts.

But, we've all been playing this game a long time now - including these sorts of in-jokes is almost impossible, especially when they were such a part of the original, although to a smaller degree.

Basically, we're making the game much bigger, and not just the maps.

The original shouts by the Enforcer were pretty bad quality and short in length (file size?). Maybe that's what made them less intelligible.

I suppose we could always email Romero to ask him, but 'what would id do?' is a pretty good way of having a completely stagnant design, which results in a shit game.

Think how many 'clones' of other games you've played, and how many were worth the time. 

The team has demonstrated resistance against most kinds of constructive critic in the past so don't waste your energy trying to help them make it good. 

but also if I pretend I do not know Quake and look at it as standalone thing 

(This is what I've seen so far ...)

1. These maps might be the best looking Quake maps of all time.
2. Only Tronyn could put more monsters in a map
3. Lots of detail in the environment.
4. Fullbright textures well used.
5. The maps look very well thought out. And they don't look robotic or sterile.
6. The weapons and box models look good. The new monsters look good.
7. The few monster sounds, like the grunts, that I'm not super-fond of, can get lost in the other noises of combat and when they are dead they quit making the noise anyway.
8. The maps are really fantastic with complex stuff in places.

If there is a problem here, I'm not seeing it.

In a lot of ways at least to me, playing this is a pleasant relief:
* It has similar gameplay to Quake
* Isn't fiends and shamblers for the 487th time.

I think 95% of the changes are extremely positive and creative. And these maps are about 2 or 3 times better than I expected. I think the blurs positively add to the feel of playing something new and different. 

Well for the record, I'm not really interested in what Quake was designed to be, or what Romero thinks it was supposed to be, but what it actually became. I think both addon packs are shit. I think Daikatana is shit, but I also think Quake 2 is dull and boring and iD have never produced anything truly brilliant since Quake 1. So clearly removing Romero from iD did affect something. But perhaps at the same time the rest of the iD team prevented some elements that Romero was keen on seeing the light of day, we'll never really know. Romero has it on record he was really against the game they ended up making, as he just saw it as cloning Doom.

The key thing is what qualities the game in the game has in the end, and they must be superb ones because we're all still playing it.

Think about it from the point of view of editing a film. Why did Kubrick decide to remove the pie fight from Dr. Strangelove? What specifically made the narration of Blade Runner so awful it ruined the film? 

 

the mission packs are damn good.

@mh
Thans for that man.