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		 'pon The Download #5 posted by Shambler  on 2007/02/23 11:17:39Looks pretty nice yo.  
		 Good To See Lots Of New Maps #6 posted by ijed on 2007/02/23 15:00:23 And this looks like a nice one.
 downloading . . .
 
		 Played It #7 posted by Orl  on 2007/02/23 16:57:43Liked it. A good choice of theme with fine brushwork. I did'nt mind the sometimes cramped rooms, as I like tight combat. But really dark areas is kind of a turn off for me. I got lost a few times because I couldn't find the path to take because it was hidden by darkness. 
 The first portion of the map seemed much harder than the last. I died only a few times, but nothing to overly difficult.
 
 Overall, this is a great effort. I recommend to anyone who enjoys Quake single player. Nice work Elvis, keep mapping.
 
		 Pretty Good. #8 posted by Shambler  on 2007/02/23 20:00:28Quite a "full" map with a good theme and some nice details. It is fairly cramped in places, moving around some scenery is awkward. 
 I found it fairly tough, the start was a bit annoying with the knights and health supplies right next to ammo, in fact health was fairly sparse. The balance was good though, maintained interest and the sewers had interesting battles.
 
		
		#9 posted by Lunaran  on 2007/02/23 20:18:10Unfortunate use of minlight
 I got lost a few times because I couldn't find the path to take because it was hidden by darkness
 
 are we all playing the same map?
 
		 Groovy #10 posted by ijed on 2007/02/23 23:01:18 Great detailing, layout and combat.  The lighting is too flat and more contrast would have helped.  
 The other thing was I felt like I should have had some sort of close combat weapon, the Zer chainsaw or Qouth hammer, just to deal with the hordes of knights when the SSG felt slow.
 
 Very nice work.
 
		 Mishmash. Good and bad. Definitely good combat  and flow, offering a good challenge, maybe, as stated by Orl, the ending was a little bit of a lackluster, being able to get rid of the shambler without even exiting the underground, from a safe spot. The initial building being really too tight and with way too cramped architecture, giving a very unrealistic feeling. On the other hand, very nice architecture in the underground section, maybe with a couple of boxy rooms that could be avoided. Ammo wise, I found it adequate, a bit on the scarce side, but adequate. Lighting is really to be worked on.  
		 Quake With XP #12 posted by OZZY on 2007/02/24 19:40:20 I wish I could get Quake to work with XP good?  
		 Quake On Xp #13 posted by nakasuhito on 2007/02/24 20:15:17 
		 Elvis... #14 posted by generic  on 2007/02/24 23:49:54Good work! You might try going back and lighting this one differently, though. AguirRe will no doubt be able to give you a few good suggestions ;-)
 As far as the crampedness is concerned, I think it is a result of trying to map "to scale." I didn't really have any problems negotiating most of the architecture except for a few spots underground.
 
		 Nice Map #15 posted by nitin  on 2007/02/25 02:54:18good build, solid texturing, tough gameplay.
 But my god the lighting, this would be so much better if it wasnt lit so bad.  The other issue is crampedness liek peopl mentioned but I to used to that.
 
		 Hard Ass Hell. #16 posted by Potato on 2007/02/25 08:42:29 Close combat with blasted sword wielding monsters. Not much ammo, and not much lighting.
 It's hard, but a good map.
 
		
		#17 posted by Elvis  on 2007/02/25 09:03:11i don't get it why all are so obsest with the lighting, i just use lights to show the way more or less and besides it's supposed to be abit dark anyway  
		 Elvis #18 posted by inertia  on 2007/02/25 09:18:46I think a lot of mappers like to think of lighting how a photographer might think of it.  In other words, using lighting to "set up a scene," instead of just using it to allow a player to see the environment.
 I'm no photografer tho' so maybe I'm talking out of my arse.
 
		
		#19 posted by Elvis  on 2007/02/25 09:45:54i suppose i could have edit the lighting abit beter but as i saw it it looked ok, eather you like it or you don't, i consentrated abit more on the map itself
i used some light things atleast to try and make the map look abit different but i mostly used tourches as it's a medieval type map so it fits but in general this is how i map...
 
		 Elvis #20 posted by nitin  on 2007/02/25 09:51:02for a very simple explanation, it lacks contrast  
		
		#21 posted by Elvis  on 2007/02/25 10:09:08that dosn't say much to me, to me they are just light
i had one say that the place where there where so many monsters where to dark so i added some extra light but apparently they became to strong, not on my screen tho
 
		 Lighting #22 posted by Orl  on 2007/02/25 16:32:07Everybody plays with a different gamma. You Elvis, must play with a high gamma so it looks as though everything is even with the lighting and bright. Me on the other hand, I like my Quake dark, so I have to rely on the lighting of the map to see, not the gamma. The very small staircase inside the house in the tight hallway I could not see because it was so dark. I found it by luck...  
		 Well #23 posted by ijed  on 2007/02/25 16:32:34I have problems with light as well - I make it far too dark.  Basicly on your screen how you set up light it probably looks great to you, but you have to allow for how it will look on everyone else�s.  
 For me alot of maps have very bleached lighting.    But for most people they�re lit perfectly. I reckon the idea is to find the balence.
 
		 Lighting #24 posted by Spirit  on 2007/02/25 17:26:54I suggested some things on that for the beta already: http://quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1313  It would have been quite easy:
 http://spirit.enjoys.it/fitz0001.jpg  - original
 http://spirit.enjoys.it/fitz0002.jpg  - -range 1.05 -dist 0.7 -fast -soft
 http://spirit.enjoys.it/fitz0003.jpg  - -range 1.05 -dist 0.7 -fast -soft plus some sunlight
 
  Bland lighting can kill the best map.
 
  I had the same problem like Orl with the staircase. The texturing was not too lucky.  
		 Q1 Still Alive ! #25 posted by Barnak on 2007/02/25 18:45:47 Keep on mapping, guys !
 I'm still playing Q1, after all these years.  It's fun to see the game isn't dead.  I played that new map and found it to be pretty cool.  Thanks !
 
		 Spirit, Orl #26 posted by Elvis  on 2007/02/25 19:46:59to me thouse pics looks horrid but true i have it the gamma bar above half in quake  
		 Staircase #27 posted by Orl  on 2007/02/25 20:03:17Here's a shot from me looking at the staircase.
http://orl.fvfonline.com/misc/staircase.jpg  If you didn't know it was there, you would simply think its part of the wall thats just unlit. Even playing through the map twice, I had a hard time finding the staircase.  
		
		#28 posted by Elvis  on 2007/02/25 20:11:01ok i give up, do whatever you want with the map guys, i doubt i can do anything more with this darn map as i've had to much problems with it to continue putting even more on it, it just keeps erroring out when i try something new  
		
		#29 posted by Lunaran  on 2007/02/25 21:31:55I think a lot of mappers like to think of lighting how a photographer might think of it. In other words, using lighting to "set up a scene," instead of just using it to allow a player to see the environment. 
 Actually, most people have the opposite problem.  Mappers will tend to light to make sure every surface has light on it, because they just built all this stuff and now you have to be able to see it, right?  Lighting for effect/realism is only learned in time, after you start to think of the lighting's role in the map as a whole, and not just 'that thing you do after you build the map.'
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