|Posted by the silent on 2007/09/19 17:32:28|
|I was just wandering around Wikipedia, and stumbled on the Quake page, read on and it brought back to mind the Sega Saturn version of the Big Q. I remember playing it back in the days at a friends' place and thinking how I would have loved to play the 4 bonus levels that version had. Not being able to pester my friend enough to let me spend hours in front of his tv, I quickly forgot that.
Today, it just dawned on me, hey, wouldn't it be freakin' cool if any of the guys over@func felt like recreating and releasing them to the public? Would there be copyright issues? Anyone picking on this? I would do it myself, but we all know the sad story of the guy who was not able even to start a map editor, so...
What do you say?
#1 posted by Spirit
on 2007/09/19 17:57:44
#2 posted by golden_boy on 2007/09/19 19:48:46
are those levels even any good?
I suppose we could mail The Romero about this, or id Software. The standard levels are now open source, so perhaps we could get the bonus ones too.
On the other hand, if they were good levels somebody would already have stolen/ported them I think. You could just rip them from the pakfiles of that version, no?
Oh and: Pics!
#3 posted by metlslime
on 2007/09/19 21:10:36
Probably the levels were made (and therefore copyrighted) by another developer, i.e. whoever ported it. So Romero probably can't help, other than maybe pointing you in the right direction
... I seem to remember that those levels were at least standard id quality, I only played 2 at the time and, quite frankly, I wouldn't know where to find screenshots, I'll try google them later.
@golden_boy, do you mean that .pak files from the Sega version would be playable on PC? Would it be the same with the other versions? I'm not that much of a techboy, you know...
And I'd sure love to play all versions of this game!
As for re-creating them... Could it be a speedmap theme? If someone finds a screenshot, the theme would be: Build a map around this!
...does not say much, tough...
I've discovered the names and how to jump to the 4 bonus levels in a cheats document to be found on Fileplanet:
I did not remember they were substitutes for the secrets level(Thinking of Quake without Ziggurat Vertigo gives me goosebumps), furthermore, I discovered in this document some nice features of the Sega version (i.e. the "rain" cheat that has rain falling in open areas of maps), still, no screen of the secret levels...
I'll keep searching....
Didn't Even Know There Is A Saturn Port As Well
#6 posted by negke
on 2007/09/20 10:58:21
Can't you just warez the Saturn version and play it with an emulator? If the file structure is remotely similar to the PC version, one could maybe extract the levels and try some obscure bspversion conversion. I don't expect much from them however. Do you remember anything about their sizes/themes?
I own the N64 port shown in the comparison shots. What were they thinking when adding the colored lighting... Indeed, many areas have been simplified to varying degrees. Deathmatch rocked (well, in a way) with the wacky controls, no idea why people always refused to play it with me. ;) The Saturn version looks somewhat better.
...I'm thinking of asking that old friend if he still has the disc and try to do something with it.
About size and themes, I'd say average Q1, I seem to remember that secret level 1(Purgatorium, as we have learned), accessed from where once was Ziggurat Vertigo, was blue metal in style, with lotsa scrags...
If you're interested in this version, I'd suggest you give a look at the document about cheat codes ( http://files.filefront.com/Quake+1+cheat+codes+in+detail+PC+N64+Saturn/;2607167;/fileinfo.html
) it has a good section about Sega Quake and offers nice comparation with the other 2 versions.
Colored lightning, they were thinking "Hey, we can make this look like Quake2, it just came out, people will love it!".
They made it look like Barnum in Hell, instead...
Now, if I only can find the number of that friend of mine....
#8 posted by johnxmas
on 2007/09/20 13:06:52
But I've no idea how to convert these levels...
#9 posted by Spirit
on 2007/09/20 14:30:57
I am playing it with the Yabause emulator right now, unfortunately there is some overlay of sprites on the screen. Seems like they used sprites for the hud weapon models. No entities are displayed and the walls are tilted in a weird way. The levels are _very_ low quality compared to the original ones in my opinion. Like 50% of the brushwork is gone for performance.
Hm, that overlay layer can be turned off.
I tried one secret map, secret3 I think. It was an arena where the player had to select a monster to fight against a computer monster (eg orge vs shambler). Or the other secret levels alike?
Some Screenshots From That Level
#10 posted by Spirit
on 2007/09/20 14:36:59
... As I said, I remember having played the first two secret levels, or maybe only the first one...
But, I don't remember such difference in quality... It's been along while... My brain has had to take a lot of abuse ever since...
Hey, can you give me a link to Yabause? I dloaded a coupla emulators, but they don't seem to work at all...
...what is google for?
Found Yabause. Thanks anyway.
#13 posted by -_-
on 2007/09/20 20:21:17
#14 posted by starbuck
on 2007/09/21 12:22:32
those levels look total balls! Is there supposed to be no lighting? Seriously, the majority of the people who post on Func can do better speedmaps.
#15 posted by metlslime
on 2007/09/21 22:04:58
but, consider the ridiculously low specs of the systems they were designed to run on. (Not to say these were awesome, but you do have to consider being told "re-make this 1mb map, but it can only be 500k in size, and you can only use lightmaps on 50% of the walls" or similar.)
#16 posted by bambuz
on 2007/09/21 22:11:06
he meant the bonus map.
...Can anyone fill me in on how to actually run a game with an emulator? I tries Yabause, SSc to no avail... YAbause is the easiest to use for me, but, after having set up the thing, told it where to find track01.iso, nothing happens...
Uff.. damn my poor tech skills....
Any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks...
It's Not Worth It
#18 posted by Spirit
on 2007/09/22 19:11:01
It's _very_ slow and as I said entities do not show up. You need to find a BIOS image for Yabause and specify some options too.
#19 posted by golden_boy on 2007/09/26 20:18:33
@screenshots: Are you kidding? :-)
Spirit et al: What is the format, I assume it's a CD image? Is it ISO9660?
If so, it should be easily readable. You could mount it and look at the contents. Maybe it does have PAK files.
Or it has a LHA archive like Shareware Quake.
It is definitely possible to extract the BSPs. But downloading 70 MB of crap from some unreliable host doesn't seem attractive to me considering the screenshots.
Who did the four bonus levels? Id Software?
#20 posted by negke
on 2007/09/26 20:43:37
Yes, it's an iso file. There are no pak files, the maps are in .lev format iirc. No idea how to open/convert them.
They were most likely not made by id - see metl's first post.
#21 posted by Spirit
on 2007/09/26 20:53:28
The filelist from the ISO:
382 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - 0
996 Kilobytes - 1997-10-23 - credits.lev
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-13 - drklogo.pic
1269 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l1.lev
1363 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l2.lev
1321 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l3.lev
1212 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l4.lev
1355 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l5.lev
1216 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l6.lev
654 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l7.lev
1369 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l1.lev
1349 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - e2l2.lev
1590 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l3.lev
1457 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l4.lev
1348 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l5.lev
1500 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l6.lev
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - e2m6.pic
1340 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l1.lev
1181 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l2.lev
1218 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l3.lev
1403 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l4.lev
1434 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l5.lev
1263 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l6.lev
982 Kilobytes - 1997-10-22 - e4l10.lev
1029 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l11.lev
1281 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l1.lev
1444 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l2.lev
1319 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l3.lev
1406 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l4.lev
1441 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - e4l5.lev
1149 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l6.lev
1497 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l7.lev
1259 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l8.lev
1080 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l9.lev
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - e4m6.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end1.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end2.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end3.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end4.pic
1220 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - end.lev
81 Kilobytes - 1997-01-17 - initload.dat
164 Kilobytes - 1997-01-17 - intro.dat
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-07 - litlogo2.pic
Kilobytes - 1997-09-22 - nits_abs.txt
Kilobytes - 1997-09-22 - nits_bib.txt
Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - nits_cpy.txt
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-07 - qblank.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-16 - qload.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - qlogo.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-13 - quaker1.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-18 - quaker2.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-13 - quaker3.pic
6 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - quake.scr
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - secret.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-18 - sega.pic
11204 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - skank.dat
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash1.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash2.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash3.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash4.pic
1068 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - start.lev
632 Kilobytes - 1997-10-18 - static.dat
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - tele.pic
607 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - test.lev
518 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - title.lev
3 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - usip.bin
#22 posted by golden_boy on 2007/09/26 21:07:59
My thought on that is that
a) LEV is obviously short for Level
This means it's not really an established file format, just a work extension. I'm pretty sure the actual file format is BSP, because it seems unlikely that they had their own map compiler.
b) It could be renamed BSP (unlikely)
c) It could be individually compressed files, i.e. packed with one of the standard packers of the time.
Finding out which is a matter of trying to open them with various unpackers.
Moreover, the unpacker would have to be on the CD, because the files would need to be extracted for playing. It is either an executable or it's built into the engine. Or it's some built-in SEGA thing (BIOS?).
One could also spy at the files with a text editor.
Maps: If id wasn't guilty, who is? The names of these mappers should be in the Book of Quake.
#23 posted by negke
on 2007/09/26 21:22:12
I doubt it's standard bsp format. At least when I opened it with a text editor and searched for worldspawn, I found nothing (no text strings). Maybe I overlooked something but I don't think so.
Well, I Tried Some Stuff
#24 posted by Spirit
on 2007/09/26 21:25:20
eg file *.lev
all except credits.lev and e*l1.lev are "identified" as lif file
, the others are just "data". Seems like file does not work on these as it also "identifies" some pictures as sounds here (at least I think we can be sure that the .pic files are no sounds...).
Watching them with a Hexeditor shows that they got quite some non-different stuff in the header(?).
Good luck! :)
What Book of Quake? It's not in Masters of Doom if you meant that.
*Of Course I Meant Hex Editor Above
#25 posted by negke
on 2007/09/26 21:34:20
They don't seem to be compressed as their sizes are rougly equal to their PC counterparts (a bit smaller, likely because of the reduced details).
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