#113 posted by Preach
on 2012/09/13 00:26:45
I don't know if there were technical reasons like those being the largest or most taxing maps, but if you were removing maps from quake on merit that's a pretty awful choice of maps to cut. The Wind Tunnels & The Sewage System would be sorely missed
#114 posted by ijed
on 2012/09/13 02:28:23
God knows what was behind the decisions there.
#115 posted by SCD on 2012/10/09 00:45:01
Is anybody going to make PC versions of the Saturn levels?
I contacted one of the administrators from inside3D a month ago asking if anybody ever made PC versions of the levels, he told me someone did made rips of the levels. I looked around for them and I had no luck of finding them.
#116 posted by necros
on 2012/10/09 02:42:41
I doubt it. You could try offering a bounty like Spirit does for some stuff but any map more than a quick hack-job would be a fair amount of work. The mapper would also need to be somewhat familiar with the sega maps.
Converting them is probably a big undertaking. Unless there are ways to analyze binary data, without specs on the sega format it would be very difficult to make sense of the files.
Maps are stored as just one long series of byte values. When maps are loaded, the engine knows how many bytes to load for each bit of information it needs because it has been programmed in by the designers of the map format. Without that header info, you have no way of knowing anything beyond basic easily identifiable data. The minute the format deviates, you would get lost.
#117 posted by metlslime
on 2012/10/09 03:27:19
reverse-engineering the levels would be an interesting challenge for a serious hacker. Similar to figuring out byte offsets for ROM hacks of old NES games.
#118 posted by distrans
on 2012/10/09 07:10:57
...like a job for Inertia :)
#119 posted by ijed
on 2012/10/11 19:05:00
It's more fun and easier to just make new maps, at least for mappers.
Most ~1996 maps are crampt and b0rky by today's standards, in general mappers now want to do things grander and more complex than was possible back then.
#120 posted by SCD on 2012/10/12 00:29:19
I know a lot of mappers today like to make new maps instead of remaking old maps, but it would be nice if one of them can make PC versions of the four Saturn levels. A lot of people been wanting to see PC versions of the levels for years and no one didn't make them yet.
#121 posted by wakey
on 2012/10/12 01:25:18
the main problem is that most of them dont have both a saturn and quake for it, to make a closer examination of the levels, which is imho essential for redoing them.
And as it seem's emulators arent working for most people too.
#122 posted by SCD on 2012/10/12 03:11:46
I've been noticing people are having problems with the Saturn emulators. There are four Saturn emulators that I know of, Satourne, SSF, Yabause and Saturnin and a bunch of people did uploaded the bin and cue files of the game so it could work on them. Hopefully somebody will be able to get the game and one of the emulators to work right so they can start working on the levels, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
#123 posted by SCD on 2012/10/14 07:00:20
Apparently in the American version of Saturn Quake, Purgatorium had a green sky texture with a rain effect.
Here's a video of it:
For a mapper I think the quality of the maps would be an issue.. would be for me anyway. I wouldn't take much pleasure from recreating something I don't personally like. Particularly if the audience wanted slavish adherence to the originals.
I say this remembering that most of the exclusive extra stuff I've seen in ports was pretty lame
Nahh I Mean
#125 posted by RickyT33
on 2012/10/19 22:07:27
You could 'remix' a map, enhancing brushwork and texturing and gameplay and everything, but there are better maps out there, and better reasons to remix maps that aren't from versions of games that had to be ported onto inferior hardware, downgraded engines etc.
I just mean what would be the point in remaking an unremarkable, little known map. For what purpose. Rather go create something original and better.
#126 posted by SCD on 2012/10/20 01:04:31
I know these maps are old and a little known and a lot of you mappers prefer of making new or remixed maps but it would be really nice if one of you can make near replicas of the Saturn levels for vanilla Quake, a lot of us Quake fans been wanting to see PC versions of these levels for a long time. You only have to make them once and that's it. I named four Saturn emulators you can mess around with, you can find the bin and cue files of Saturn Quake around the internet, I made a few posts on here that tells everyone what new textures and sound effects they added to the levels, I posted a link to a video that shows the American version of Purgatorium because it has a green sky texture and a rain effect that wasn't in the PAL version and negke posted links to videos that shows the rest of the levels. We pretty much gave you mappers all the tools you need to make the maps. This is the best we can do to help you.
And Now They Are Obliged?
#128 posted by JPL
on 2012/10/20 09:00:58
That's a great idea ! When do you start mapping ?
#129 posted by Text_Fish
on 2012/10/20 20:29:42
I'm guessing you're not a mapper, which is why you keep asking people here for such a big favour. By the looks of those videos the brushwork in these maps is pretty amateurish, so perhaps it would be a good project for you to learn mapping on?
We'll all really appreciate it when you're finished. Don't take too long though please, thanks.
#130 posted by SCD on 2012/10/20 23:42:50
I don't know what people are talking about, I'm not a mapper. That stuff is way too hard for me, I don't know anything about how to make a map for Quake. If it's the way I wrote that paragraph, I'm sorry if I confused some people. I wrote it because I got a little annoyed that we gave the mappers all the info they need to make the maps and they still turn around and say "We're still not going to make them, we prefer to make new maps.", it's like what's the point of giving them info if there going to keep doing that. It's not a big deal for me if the maps won't be made, I tried my best to get a mapper to make them but I had no luck at all. I pretty much giving up at this point.
#131 posted by necros
on 2012/10/21 00:36:08
it's interesting that you seem to feel that giving unsolicited information is some kind of payment in exchange for a service.
that's a very bizarre point of view.
that's like giving a guy your bottle cap collection and being surprised that he doesn't want to give you his watch.
you may be interested in the sega maps, but you need a mapper who is interested in them in order for them to have incentive to do all that work.
this is like basic human nature here... i'm not even sure if i just got trolled into typing this out.
#132 posted by RickyT33
on 2012/10/21 04:45:18
a lot of us Quake fans been wanting to see PC versions of these levels for a long time.
Really? Are you sure you're not just saying that? You and who else? Most of the dudes here have been around for a long time...
I posted a link to a video that shows the American version of Purgatorium because it has a green sky texture and a rain effect that wasn't in the PAL version and negke posted links to videos that shows the rest of the levels.
This makes it sound as though you are in league with Negke. I'm sorry, but Negke has been around for ages too, mapped a lot of really smart maps (100% original ones), I can't see why he would condone this sort of 'project'.
The Sega maps are trimmed down because of hardware restrictions. This makes 'gameplay' awkward because it is hard to get a lot of monsters on the screen at once. As a result a lot of the Sega Quake environments are no geared up to having lots of monsters on the screen at once (small rooms). This makes the gameplay possibilities more limited....
because it has a green sky texture and a rain effect that wasn't in the PAL version
OK, we could achieve this effect if we wanted to. Infact it has been done. Multiple times. But that really doesn't justify making a PC version of the Sega Quake map, does it?
Not to be mean man, but honestly, if you want to do it, get a copy of Worldcraft or Radient or BSP Editor, and have a go! You seem to have the drive to get these maps made, you seem to be familiar with them. We will be here to give you help and advice with regards to using your editor, fixing compiler errors, general stuff like that. We will even play and review your map(s), should you make any. But right now, we are looking for something different. 'Tis all.
Ricky Is Just Being Mean
#133 posted by negke
on 2012/10/21 10:22:23
Seriously though, it's indeed not as easy a job as it may seem at a glance. The maps may be fairly small and simple, but remaking them takes more than just looking at a low-res video or emulated version and then clicking around a bit in the editor. First, one would have to meticulously note and draw the layout, scale/distance information, entities and difficulty settings, and style elements - which is an awkward affair at best, considering there's no noclip cheat (possibly no way to switch directly to the bonus levels, either) and only restricted controls. Then build it while always cross-checking with the originals and trying to maintain a certain quality standard at the same time. This isn't a thing you do in just a couple of hours.
It would certainly be nice to have PC versions of those maps for archival reasons, or a sake of completeness. If this was a place like Doomworld, a remake project would be well underway already. Alas, there are only few active mappers left here, and with very limited time. So it's understandable why people don't automatically get all excited about remaking maps they barely know (have no history with, so to speak), and especially on request. Many may be busy working on their own maps which already eats up enough time as it is. Maybe one day... but keep your expectations reasonable.
I tried to load the game in a Saturn emulator, but it seemed unnecessarily complicated. Does one need a bios file, too?
#134 posted by SCD on 2012/10/21 12:01:09
Yes it does, I found a download link for them from emuparadise. Here's the link: http://www.emuparadise.me/biosfiles/Saturn.zip
I think the best option is one of you bring this idea to Doomworld, QuakeOne or Inside3D. This way there's a better chance of the levels being made because there will be a lot more people that are willing to do it.
#135 posted by Spirit
on 2012/10/21 12:25:48
How about you try that yourself?
#136 posted by Text_Fish
on 2012/10/21 16:39:41
Would you like your shoes shined in the meantime?
#137 posted by JPL
on 2012/10/21 21:28:42
... looks like sarcasms are now leading :P