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Q-Deck (FESP1) (singleplayer Release)
It's finally here!

It's taken me ages and for that I apologise, but what I had in mind for the singleplayer version was much more ambitious than simply adding monsters. There are a lot of new areas (not shown in the screenshots!), I hope you have fun playing it. It's good to finally see the map through to completion. :)

Obligatory screenshots -

And the bsp (along with the .txt and .map file) -

Quaddicted Link -

I'd appreciate any first play demos you can share! Oh, and I recommend hard mode. :)
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I wondered why you were skipping stuff on that second run, then I came back to the thread and saw why.
The shambler spawn on the top deck is an anti-camping measure, makes me smile to see it working properly :D 
Great SP Version 
Works well, good detail as before, nicely expanded and cool secrets - most of which I didn't find on my first run, however... Got to say I played in a quite derpish style overall. Skill 2 didn't seem overly unfair, although this is the second version, no idea how it was before.

What sucks is that the map is a single model over the limit. This could have been fixed easily. Requiring an increased source port for this map is unacceptable in my book.

Hope you'll get around to making more levels. 
I rather enjoyed your demo, it kind of made me pull my hair out when you walk right past a secret (like the biosuit one, you looked up in the wrong place!) and the fact that even though you found the entrance to the secret under the lift you still managed to miss it!

As for the 257/256 model problem I had actually gone through and deleted a bunch of things to try and correct it but I couldn't figure out why the model count wouldn't decrease.

You'd probably need to use an increased source port to run the map anyway, half the map disappears when you use the standard engine. :P 
Shambler Spawn. 
Can camp behind the crate easily, just have to dodge enforcers and scrags a bit. Actually makes a really fun fight duck and shooting against 2 shamblers and the vore. 
Third Route 
ye that way i got a 38 from a safegame, vs a 39 in hfr on the other route. i coudlnt realy find a good way to throw the firstgrenade early though 
Hi Orbshambler ;) 
Tremendous Map 
highly polished, beautiful lighting and visuals IMHO plus it had real atmosphere, especially for a base map.

Gameplay was also excellent IMHO, I didnt find it hard but more challenging and surprising. Loved some of the gameplay setups quite a bit. Also, I think a good compliment is that if I didnt already know, I wouldnt have guessed it was a dm map conversion. 
what a good year so far, we've had Sock's awesome Midnight Stalk, two monstrous releases from Mike and Tronyn, this map and some good ones too from mfx and ricky. 
Noticed That... 
I never changed the texture on the computer in the gold key room to a gold key texture. Whoops. :P 
I made a demo of me playing my own map, it's not very long and I tried to play it in the most fun/carefree way as I could. (latest version of map) 
Model Limit 
It works like this: each brush entity takes up a slot, and then each individual model precache - one for each item and monster type used in the map (.mdl and .bsp) as well as the standard player stuff such as v_weapons and gibs.

There are several ways of bringing down the count, e.g. by using point-based triggers instead of brush ents where possible.
In this map, it doesn't even require special tricks as it could have worked right away with established mapping techniques. What I mean is, for example, the triggers for the bars/dog ambush in the corridor at the start only need one brush trigger and a trigger_relay to fire the second target, not two trigger_once above each other like you used.

Of course, sometimes maps simply can't be made to work in vanilla limits, and sometimes, perhaps, it would be too much work compared to the gain. But if it's a simple deal like this, if it's only a few clicks over the limit, I've no tolerance for not doing or at least trying to fix it. Mind you, this is not supposed to sound like I'm scolding you, though - you're kinda excused since you're still new to Q1 mapping. Just something to keep in mind for next time...

...or if you made another update? Fuck Spirit! :D (not least because he didn't bring it up when betatesting) 
I will keep it in mind next time. There's a few things that bothered me about the map anyway, it was never going to be perfect (even after the second release I found the gold key computer had a silver key texture).
Also if you skip the dog ambush entirely and trigger it from the opposite side then the ambush still has to fire because of the way I set it up, only the dogs will be trapped and not you.
I think I should have used Thans "if" trick, but I decided that pretty much everyone will go through the trap.
Also, I would have preferred the slime/lift/shambler ambush to have the slime rising than the lift to go down (I do admit it was a cheap trap, even though I enjoyed watching everyone panic). 
are one of the most under-appreciated entities in Quake. I'm still finding new uses for them. 
No Time.. 
to spend on my new map, so I'm just pissing around with making a quoth version of this... that and I have a bit of mappers block atm.
I say no time cause of work and the fact that I'm going away for a few weeks soon (no internet or pc!). 
i stand behind this trap. It's a great, brutal set up - it isn't easy coming up with ways to throw experienced quake players off like that. 
I liked it too. 
Moving Pixels 
Rad Map 
Cool vid, wasn't sure if you'd get around to it simply because I know you weren't a fan of the camped style and some of the gameplay decisions I made. I definitely didn't want to redo the scale of the map from the DM version because that would mean redoing almost the whole map again so I tried to make it work as it was.
I appreciate you spending the time and effort making the video! :) 
Thanks for the demo man. I'm slightly surprised at how tough people find the map, I recently played Backstein (give it a go, it's amazing) and I thought that was really difficult compared to my own map. Definitely need to take all the info on board for my next map. 
Environmental Frustration 
IMHO the reason this map is hard is because the player is often fighting the environment and monsters at the same time. There are slime pits and traps, hardly any environmental suits, flaky ladders and a general lack of floor space (tech clutter) to fight enemies.

I personally found the ladders frustrating, Quake does not support them and the current solutions (constantly jumping up a series of steps) is problematic. Combine the ladder problem with having to fight enemies at the same time and you have a recipe for frustration. This map could of easily had platforms to exit the slime areas and it would have gotten the player back to fighting the enemies not the environment.

As a rule the more things a player has to deal with the greater the difficulty. Monsters + Ammo/health management + environmental hazards + unforgiving traps + cramped locations = frustration.

If you want a good example of a map with excessive environmental hazards + hard monster layout play Conflagrant Rodent. This map has plenty of lava, small warped walkways to fall off, lots of heavy range monsters and punishing skill levels.

I personally think the flow of the final arena is wrong, it is setup as a corridor with no loop routes. This is the main reason why DM maps make bad SP maps, the flow is wrong. Typically a DM map is about forcing encounters, players are pushed into focal points to fight quickly, kill players and then exit looking for more players. The flow of DM is the connectivity between arenas not the internal flow around an arena.

The main route though the final room is a central walkway that leads the player to exit the room, you are naturally pushed from one side of the room to the other. The upper area is not used because the flow is linear, move up ramp, jump off ledge. There should of been more ways up to the higher ground, lifts at either end etc.

The monsters in the final room mostly spawn on top of crates and the room then turns into a series of turret encounters. There is so much tech clutter around that it is easier to exit the room and snipe from the doorways than try to navigate the room. 
Haha, Duly Noted! 
Yeah, I made the map for DM first and then decided that I would try and do a SP conversion (who plays DM anyways right?).
The map was a huge learning experience for me and I tried a lot of gameplay experiments (mostly trap set pieces) which was very "marmite" judging by the comments.
Next map will be SP-only and a lot more traditional in scale and gameplay (to an extent, if I get a crazy idea in my head then I will probably stick something in there). 
Tronyn Review 
I like it a lot. Secrets were fun. Though I really did frown at the slime pit, the ledges should have been a little wider I think. Also some of the parts felt just a little too small, like I didn't really have room for the kind of combat needed to deal with the enemies at hand.

Overall it was fun, though. Very nice brushwork! 
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