|Posted by DOOMer on 2016/04/12 21:53:01|
|We again held a speedmapping event! Was chosen the theme "Escher", which is offered by Shamblernaut. And today we have four completely different looking at it maps from the mappers Cocerello (requires Quoth), digs, Doomer (who will add the engine/mod requirements to his post next time :P) and Shamblernaut (requires Quakespasm).
Screenshots - http://imgur.com/a/tbv2F/Screenshots
Download - http://maps.quakegate.ru/q1/sm177_pack.zip
Played SM177_digs Upon Release...
...and it was hilarious. Classic digs style, looking around had my head spinning, and top interpretation of the theme. Will try the rest soon.
And The Rest.
COCE - couldn't get through.
Doomer - quite cool, classic speedmap style.
Shamblernaut - what the what the fucking what what?! I had no idea what was triggering teleporting to a new incarnation of the structure and eventually I stumbled across what looked like an exit and then a Fiend killed me. Fits the theme well tho!
>>> COCE - couldn't get through.
I was able to run a Coce's map in standard Quake. But in the Quoth I get crash.
>>> Doomer - quite cool, classic speedmap style.
Played the pack...all on skill 1.
Shamblernaut - Very odd! The use of teleporters and the skybox had me pretty confused but I eventually ended up at the exit!
Doomer - Appropriate title to say the least, Enjoyed it but you can trigger the exit through the bars at the start
Digs - I would say I enjoyed this map the most. Instant "Escher" feel and used well throughout.
Coce - Unique idea and liked (I think?) the fact of random weapon spawns on load. Either way, the dogs at the very start is a bit daunting to push through however.
Nice job guys, I'll try to attend an event next time!
Only Played Digs' Map So Far
Classic digs, kinda reminded me of The Anomaly, particularly the "water-lift". Really enjoyable vertical level design and gameplay, nice to have a couple of powerups to play around with as well. Short and sweet.
skill 3 demo
Both Doomer and Digs maps worked here, haven't tried the others yet. I've almost finished Digs' map and got halfway through Doomer's map, will play again soon.
Very short video:
I was pretty much testing out a concept to see if it would be playable. Turns out it isn't.
A mod would be great for this, it would allow for walking seemlessly on walls, would allow you to place monsters on the walls and to be able to see them when you look down, etc. It would also allow for a slower transition, which I think would help reduce the disorientation that the map induces.
@Bloughsburgh the skybox was supposed to help you keep your bearings.
@Shambler the striped floor textures were supposed to be a cue of where you can jump / fall off. The problem is I made the triggers too narrow, so if you run off the platform you actually miss the trigger.
Oops :( It is not good. But I not going to fix it now, because we have released pack. Later maybe publich the fixed version on my personal website.
In future I will be take more time for testing triggers.
Digs map was most enjoyable for me. I was afraid of nasty manipulations of teleporter exit angles, but it was only for Escher looks.
Doomer. Enjoyable, though curved staircases was too thin imho.
Shamblernaut. Well it looked Escher alright. Downside is that I had no idea what am I doing.
For me it was hard to understand because there was no clear goal and thus no way of telling if I'm progressing towards it or in a limbo between 2 teleporters.
At one point I thought I figured it out and tried to use audible teles, thinking it is the right ones and all other is silent.
Finished the level by accident.
Didn't play Cocerello's map because of quoth 8( sorry.
3 hard demos here
Demos ... Or Not
Unfortunately i couldn't get to play Shamblernaut's map, it crashes every engine i have tried till now (details below), so i'll upload the demos when i get to play it. For now you have this wall of text.
* Digs: I don't know why you haven't released it on its own instead of releasing on the pack, apart from testing it, or that you weren't completely satisfied with it.
I think it would be better suited to, both in the map itself and more geared to the kind of the people that would play it if you were to release on its own. Just needs some testing in some parts of the gameplay and brushwork and would be ready, so my words are aiming at you fixing and releasing it as an standalone.
It's a good realization of the theme, with good and well put ideas, which makes the player think and explore. All over it felt very good, but about some enemies' teleporting, I couldn't get to like them, like the shalrath after the shambler and some of the ambushes too close to the player. I liked a lot that that your intentions towards the player could be seen sometimes, like the box to protect you from the shalarth's attack after the gold key door. Found myself grinning at some parts, like the message about not all the doors open, the trick with the hell_knights at the beginning, and some other details you added. As you can see in the demo, i enjoyed searching for all the possibilities the brushwork could give and missed the map to have even more. :)
Sometimes the navigation was a bit hard, and made some enemies get stuck like after the GK door or the ladder at the beginning, which was a pity, also the room before the one with the GK.
The ambushes need a bit of reworking most of times, they were or too unchallenging sometimes (two wizards in a good position for the player in the garden), unfair (the knights ambush or the YA ambush) or felt two alienated from each other.
* Dooomer: straightforward map, i like it, the setpieces you used, the button shooting part, the secret, the shambler fights, the general idea of two areas joint where you can choose freely whcih one go to and go back freely too,... but i cannot see the Escher theme on it (i suppose you used a picture for reference i haven't seen), could get some more intense combats, as it is it is mainly a corridor with enemies waiting ahead, reminds me of the grunt's part of the one you submitted for sm173. For example, you could put some wizards on the air, while some knight or a hellknight on the spiral staircases. Some of the stairs felt a bit narrow at first but never felt badly.
Also the skybox made too much contrast against the quality of the brushwork. You could have used a simpler or lower resolution one or just go with a normal sky texture.
About the weapons, in general i liked it, but i think it would be better moving the SSG and maybe another more weapon (GL, RL or LG) with 1 or 2 small ammo boxes to one of the sides and the other with the NG and SNG, as it adds more replayability than what it has and varies the combats.
Got error ''Mod_loadbrushmodel: maps/sm77_shamblernaut.bsp has wrong version number (844124994 should be 29)'' on Quakespasm, original GLQuake and WinQuake so far, which didn't let me play it. Any ideas on why? As no one else has said a thing a about this i find this strange.
* About my map:
- Shambler: for the sake of other maps i have done with very similar combats with dogs. Which skill level you chose? How far you got? In case you chose skill 2 or 3, you should know that they were made to be off limits for almost everyone, for someone that preferred something crazy, as it was explained on the text file.
- DOOMer: could you tell me more about the crash (what happened, what message appeared, whcih engine you used, ..., so i can avoid it in the future?
- DeeDoubleU: don't worry, i don't mind, but i think its not the first time i get to read that, but i don't know if it were from you so, for future reference, what is the problem? As there is lots of maps done for quoth i expect everyone to have it on their Quake folder so it got me curious.
wrong version number (844124994 should be 29)
That error is from trying to load a bsp2 map in an engine without bsp2 support. Update Quakespasm or use MarkV, darkplaces, etc.
A speedmap should require only standard limits, not even extended limits. And vanilla progs.
Nice map digs! You nailed it.
Speedmaps Don't Need To Be Retro Jams
People could've made an Arcane Dimensions speedmap, for example. It's up to the author to decide how much he'll restrict his audience.
That said, it would be better if speedmaps for different mods aren't mixed in the same pack.
i meant this in the first place, its a pain to divide a pack manually between different mods/engines.
Basic agreement should be on the "basics" lol i am talking out of my ass again sorry...
Cool map Digs!
This map I made only one week, and I do not see that it should be a separate release. For a single release, I would come up with something more and detailed.I tested the map and saw the game of others. Teleports monsters do not cause problems. Shalrath attack is not as fast, and when you wish you could hide from it over the top boxes. Although I left the bottom enough kits.
As for the places that you have disappointed, I have had no time for detailed testing. It speedmapping, and I do not see anything wrong with that.
Thanks again for such a big comment
A week is not speedmapping. Better call it "Jam" event next time.
I think the concept of speed mapping itself is already out of date. If you mean to make a map for a few hours, and now these maps are no longer interesting. We have grown out of them :)
Nah I'm With Coce Etc.
Digs ur map should have been a seperate release, it is too good :)
It Was A Speed Map For Me.
I only devoted half a dozen hours to it, as that was all the time I had to give it. (and it shows)
Shouldn't hours spent on map rather than announcement / release time determine whether it is a speed map or not?
About Real Speedmapping
I try make map for 4 hour. Here's what happened
excuse me while I go cry in the corner
have a room there for one more?
Definitely demonstrating your mapping prowess!
About what's an speedmap:
As was mentioned several times before on the speedmap thread, even in the first years of speedmaps there was talk about 1 hour being a ridiculous deadline, only OK for DM and SP arenas and it was moved to 100 minutes soon because of that and more later.
If i were to add my opinion on the topic, i suppose that they were created for that from Doom or very early Quake MP communities, even more considering DM mapping and playing was more common than SP back then.
That's why i think something along the lines Digs said in the first half of #17, and think theory on what a speedmap for SP is should change (in practice it did many years ago and in theory there was opinions agreeing about that the last years) and aim for a time limit of around 4 hours (real number depends on how quick each of us can map), leaving speedmaps for whoever like speedmaps and leave solid mapping to jams.
On my regard, my main reason to aim for real speedmaps is that i try to make each map even speedier than the previous, because i tend to overdo the maps and ending with something unplayable (the Q2 ones i did were a big example of this) or having a map that feels a chore to end and it having a big chances of eating dust in a corner, and this helps me correct that behaviour. This one was a bit less than 2 hours (in reality 3, because of some unexpected problems and because i tested and fixed it) so i am satisfied with it.
A week is not speedmapping. Better call it "Jam" event next time.
They have different names because they are different things. Following this, sm175, sm176, sm173_skacky and sm177_digs should have been named jams.
Like Shamblernaut said i think it is dependant on hours spent on it, more than available time. Like you know, one week is given because most of us have lots of real life thing going on and no mapping time on a given day. A jam is definitely different to speedmaps, even comparing those jam maps that used few hours can't compare to real speedmaps (less than around 4 or 5 hours (real number depends on how quick each of us can map))
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