I substracted the essiential qc from the Dissolution Of Eternity Pak.
I wondered if I could make it a stand-alone add on for modifying my own progs.

http://members.home.nl/gimli/Q1EarthQuak.htm

As it did. 

I don't need them, but I wanted the hipnotic ones really. I don't really need them though, because it was just for a visual effect on the keydoors.

As for my use of the Quoth update content, I can probably just rip it all out and go back to the original Quoth enemies without much impact on my map. The lack of these monsters would be a shame, but I'd rather rip them out in the event that Kell and Necros can't finish the update than having to start from scratch with completely new stuff based on Quoth.

That's just my map though. JPL and Trinca definitely use the Quoth 2 stuff a lot more.

HT: Do you reckon Necros would let you finish off Quoth 2 from his current code? Have you contacted him? 

If we did start with a fresh model pack, I wouldn't realy consider it a Quoth replacement
as much as having a code base that accepts Quoth definitions for entities and churns out a creature of equivalent strength and function. I share your concerns though. It would be a radical step to take and though I can skin very quickly, all the elements added together, new models, new animation, new sound, new code, and certainly some intangeables yet to be forseen, we are talking about adding a great deal of development time to the pack.

Still, it may be possible to minimize the time factor by only using existing models, and changing the skins to reflect a consistent theme (Necrotic-Mechanical and Ancient-Cyber are ideas I have sketched up a bit), and as for sounds, current Quake content can be remixed and screwed with for some nice effects.

I always underestimate time factors, and work best with set deadlines, funny, when I started the project as a coder, I was looking for something that would give me a breather from Mortisville for about a month. I enjoyed developing code and editing sound for Trinca, so I thought it would be a rather easy task, here it is a half a year later! 

post answer, but I got error message 42 for the first part, so the first part went something like this,

Trinca contacted me last night and said he could not get a hold of either Necros or Kell; I could try e-mailing Necros but I have no reason to believe that he would be more respondant to me than Trinca.

Perhaps a mass mailing from all interested parties would do the trick, with an attached message that stated Necros we understand you are sick to death of Quake. It happens, we can empathize, but if you could release the Quoth 2 contents in their present form and let the Quake community polish it up for a map pack release, we would be very thankful for your magnimity.'

With his in-box filling up one day, he might take notice. 

MadFox, I played your map, it's pretty wicked, anyone who enjoyed the lost mines map from Armagon will love this map, it's like an uber sized version.

I took about thirty screen shots while playing that I'll use to illustate the commentary on things I noticed while playing that I intend to write up and send via e-mail. It might take me a few days to get it all together though.

Now, go to bed, Thumpy! You make func_boarder's eyes sore with your endless chat chat. 

When is the deadline ;) for Mortisville? 

I have Quake Expo in mind if we have one next Summer; there is a media blitz of material not exposed to the light of day, yet, but I am holding back until everything is at a beta stage and can actually be publicaly tested. 

that there is a third option, if 1) Quoth-base can't be used, or 2) we don't have a consensus on an alternative pack replacement. I could build a Progs.dat that strips out the Quoth content, and replaces them with near equivelents from the original Quake source.

Two approaches can be taken. The mappers agree on a list of which monsters replace which, or if individual mappers have a different list in mind, that can be customized in the QuakeC as well . . .

[psuedo-code]

if map = "bifs_grunt_killzone"

then (monster_bob = monster_wizard)

. . .

That would at least save the mappers the trouble of going back changing things up and recompiling. 

IMHO... I can't see how Scragg can replace bob in a base map....
A solution would be to provide an alternate doawnload of the Quoth Update on any server (Remember that Kell sent it when you asked it..... so it is almost "public"...)... and also some corrections (e.g Scourge issue, ogre flak gibbed head issue)... and the Base pack...

So you would have somethinglike this in Quoth Directory:
pak0.pak => the Original Quoth pack
pak1.pak => necros' Quoth update
pak2.pak => progs.dat correction (if required and Base maps...

What do you think ? 

the Quoth 2 beta can't be used without Kell and Necros' permission. Kell allowing me access to it doesn't make it public, and there is a good faith
assumption on his part that I would not release it own my own. It is their work, I don't have any rights to it at all. 

that the third alternative is the weakest of the choices for a solution the problem that we have. 

So, how can we proceed ? I sent an email to Kell 2 weeks ago, and he didn't even take time to reply... So I guess we cannot rely on him now... nor necors BTW.. So, unless you force Kell to release it now, what can we do so ? Recompile our map without all the good stuff embedded in the Quoth update and just focusing on actual Quoth mod ?
I'm not happy with this idea, while it will cost only 45 mn (fullvis included)... and that would be a shame to lost sentinel, pyro, eddie, ogre_flak and scourge on the road...
So, what do we do ? 

as I deleted 12 double brushes in my quoth map and still my last extra vis took 5h55m.

but I quote for JPL #667. 

it certainly sucks. I'm only trying to outline what the feasible alternatives are. We need all mappers involved to hammer out how we can proceed. I can sympathize with the alternative you gave, after all, that 'good faith'
is a two way street, with each mapper spending dozens of hours under the assumption they were mapping for a package that would be completed, but there is still the matter of whom the pak belongs to. Also, I was never given the Quoth base tech code, so I'm in no more a position to develop Quoth independently than any one else (admittedly, it is something I would not do without permission). 

As far as I am concerned, we get Quoth 2 finished up properly with the agreement of Necros/Kell or we release our maps as Quoth 1 compatible instead.

The third option is to release a standard Quake progs compatible version. I really don't think it is worth creating a new progs that is not Quoth, and if that route is chosen I would rather just release my map as a standalone map for vanilla Quoth. 

... we need a clear list of the involved mappers for this pack... what is inculded in their map(s) (i.e Quoth update included, other pack based...), how long such gameplay changes would take (i.e as example, for me it would mean a complete gameplay refining and 1 hour of recompilation..), and also their opinion about how to proceed.. and we will need to decide what to do...
what do you think ? 

what about the start map? 

Good point... nobody talked about that before, but it is obvious we need one by the ned of the month... So, now we really need the exhaustive list of involved mappers... and one mapper for the start map... 

...I wonder. 

I was thinking of making a part of my map, or parts copying, could make a good contribution to the start map. Of course with some minor changes, so it won't look exact the same.

If we could make an agreement for a partial square each, one mapper could fit them together to a start map. 

Nice idea !!
Furthermore, I think that each mappers could provide a starting point (i.e: a "small" room that would reflect how looks his map), with a proper trigger_change_level... It would be usefull for the mapper in charge of building the start map... (only .map and .wad to provide).
It could be something like a corridor with several entries (like done in 1000 brushes winter pack 2 years ago), with some triggers that would give the name of the related mappers and the small room behind (mentionned above) in order to give an overview of what's behind the teleporter... (I don't know if it's clear...)
What do you think ? 

I'm up for it! 

my last sentence with an exclamation point? So stupid. I'm never writing and eating chocolate chip cookies at the same time ever again. Reduced to the mentality of a happy little Rafi listening
five year old because I've got my cookies and a cartoon of milk and fucking off on someone elses dime. 

do what ever u guys want to do! i dont give a shit anymore... release if you want if not dont, but i will not make any other map for a pack for sure! about the start map! more delay? errrr i realy dont care... 

it just keeps getting worse.