|Posted by than on 2006/07/20 21:40:56|
|I was going to release my new map tomorrow to celebrate the 10th birthday of Quake, but since I will be away this weekend I decided to release it a day early instead.
You can find more information, screenshots and a download link over at my QExpo booth. You'll need an updated engine such as FitzQuake or aguirRe's enhanced GLQuake to run it, because it is about 50 edicts over the limit :(
http://qexpo.quakedev.com/booth.php?id=29&page=150 (DAY FIVE)
The source .MAP and .RMF are both included in the zip, so if anyone wants to modify it for better DM play or whatever, then go ahead.
By The Way
it supports SP, COOP and DM play. Skill settings are also supported (85,125,155 from memory).
HOT (slight Spoiler)
Got through most of the map, found a (the?) nightmare secret (with the backwards message, nice, btw) and died on the elevator ride back up (instagib??) No, I didn't save. Crud. Other than a really confusing layout and progression, this map is really really nice. I like it a lot better than the Travail demo so far.
Than Fanboy Here
i can safely state this is one of the best base maps ever! it looks so great with all the details and bits, plus the interconnectivity (and proper? deathmatch settings). trims, tech, lights - all fit perfectly. cool end bit (regarding the mapcycle).
besides, this map shows how texture alignment has to be! ;)
gameplay was nice, too (cool wtf shambler moments). 3/6 secrets btw. - must go look for the nightmare secret.
i didn't find the layout overly confusing, but rather refreshing that sometimes there were multiple ways to proceed. on two or three occasions i took a different route and still ended up on the proper path again. nice additions to the original layout (in sp).
i saw one walkmonster and one item fall out, though (skill 2).
guru meditation made me laugh (no wonder the base was abandoned). :)
The mix of sprawling layout, tasks like a lazy Saturday todo list, and classic looks reminded me of SOA to the point of weepage. It is as if Mustaine and Levelord died in some violent crash and there souls were fused together and they merged into you. Wonderful interpertation of DM3.
Walkmonster And Ammo Fell Out?
ah, shit... neither fitz or aguirRe's engine show these warnings by default, and I don't know how to turn them on. I kinda fancy doing a minor edit to fix it, but I guess it doesn't matter that much.
What engine did you use, neg!ke? I think that the walkmonster error is caused by an enforcer that appears on a lift later in the level, but he does actually appear in the map, and it is possible to get 100% kills.
Bit weird that you died on the lift, zwiffle. It does do a lot of damage I think, but there shouldn't be any bits to get caught on. The door that obscures it originally would DEFINITELY skill the player if the triggering messed up though, as it should be killed when the secret is opened up after it slides out the way.
I'd be interested to hear what engines you were using if you experience problems.
The DM mode is more or less the same as DM3, with a few changes that don't seem to big to me, but I'm sure would make a huge difference to those who have played the map for 10 years in DM :) There is information about the alterations in the readme.
i used fitzquake, but every engine shows these warnings if the map is run with developer 1 (aguirRe's engine even has 2 and 3).
the walkmonster warning is caused by the enforcer on the lift indeed. the only way to get rid of it would be to teleport him in upon startup.
those lift issues (compare to my sm120, or even better orlmap7) are strange. i don't know what causes them, but i saw lots of "unstuck" messages at least during my train ride. jumping usually helps when being stuck and drained of health.
Here's my first play through on nightmare skill. I had made a quick attempt on skill 0, so I remembered most of the layout, but I had no clue where the monsters were going to be on skill 3. I was down to 1 health at some point :-)
Anyways, I did it in 12:51, getting all 155 kills and getting 2 out of 6 secrets.
The demo was recorded in JoeQuake (latest version) and I didn't notice any errors or anything of that kind.
Awesome map btw!!
How Long Until We Find All The Secrets?
I'm on _one_ ffs :)
its not 100% if u dont find all the secrets!
Im a than fanboi too.
would be so cool if he'd made more sp maps based on dm1/2/4/5/6 maps and make a little episode out of it. :)
Nice Nice, Spoilers Included
I played the beta, so I wasn't first-timer, found 2 secrets and got 124/125 kills. There was one inanimate shambler model spawned at the central atrium high, and I could shoot through him? Don't know if he woke or died/was removed later.
18 some minutes. Skill 1. Gotta test the DM someday.
The looks are just so good and feel so comfortable.
Fps was a bit bad at places.
Hehe fun those things. The end rocked.
I did get lost at one point and ended up roaming around but the realistic-style architecture was nice to look at so this wasn't a too bad. Played through on nightmare until about 3/4 through and then stopped to have my dinner . . . and dark places wouldn't load my save >:(
so had a quick look round with noclip and notarget - triggered the nice ending scene.
description in three words:
solid, entertaining, accomplished
so i'll have a proper uninterupted playthrough tonight.
Great job Than, one of the more impressive IDbase excursions i've seen. I never play DM, so i didn't know the layout before hand, but even after finding the silver key, and wandering off in a completely different direction, i quickly found my way. Great inter-connectivity.
It takes a bit of thought to make the standard base enemies difficult, but you managed to pull that off quite efficiently here. The base enemies never killed me, but they took me down quite low in the health department. Ending was nice, a good shock moment when the ground started to quake once the Shamblers died.
Great archetectually, with curves thrown in for nice measure, to complement the small scale details quite nicely.
Only thing i thought that didn't work, and this is somewhat of a nitpick, is that i don't think the black rock texture works well in a non-gloomy environment. The final area it worked fine, but in the early area it looks sloppy against the bright sky.
I suck, only found one secret ( RA ), got all kills. Died once, on first shambler ambush. I think it took about 25 minutes, on hard that is.
Great work Than. Hopefully we see more of these remakes, and then have the honorary Quoth translation.
A great map! I loved it. It looks so great and the gameplay is top notch. It took me almost 50 minutes to finish the level on hard skill and it was always keeping me on the edge - especially after the first shamblers appeared. I exited without dying even once but with no ammo and no armor (after reaching the exit teleport I lost my last 4 health points :)
I found only 2 secrets and in the last 1/3 of the map I was often low on ammo and health. There was no LG in the map, right?
Here is my demo: http://republika.pl/quake_1/dm3rmx_ankh.dz
Than! Please make more maps for us!
btw. out of curiosity: which area was the one you intended the player to rush through rather than retreat in order to get the necessary ammo?
I watched Stubgaards demo. There is an LG in the map! Now I understand my ammo problems and the increasing difficulty towards the end of the map. Strange that the LG didn't appear on the lift for me. I was playing the map with joequake software version. I think that Stubgaard also uses joequake.
what can i say more.. than that was one of best level�s i ever play? omg was realy realy great!!! thks man for this great work! please dont ever map for quake :) here is goes my second demo in hard :| miss a secret but i now were it was :) just forgot it :(
[activate idbase stroking motions]
Good Job Than
Very well crafted level. Interesting to see how you sort of played the textures to the brushwork, whereas in most base themes, many, self included, do the opposite. Good stuff.
The second shambler appearance in the central atrium after passing through the room that overlooks the outside area is where I intended players to run for it. It wasn't working well in beta testing, so I chucked in some more ammo (still kinda tight if you try and kill all of the shamblers and have missed a few shots earlier on in the level... and don't find the quad <wink>) and hoped for the best. That's why the floor has a red stripe on and there are arrows to show the route. If you run rather than fight, you can get the lightning gun easily and kill all the shamblers no problem, but if you are on low health and ammo, it should be pretty tense when you run into the mainframe room as there are enforcers sniping from above.
Anyway, thanks for the comments, and glad to hear you all liked it (so far.)
I replayed it last night, and I think you really improved the stuff since beta test (small changes added really made the difference).
IMHO, it is one of the best remix I played. It is equivalent to Vondur/czg's Slipgate Duplex: so a really nice work.
Keep it up !!
This is a great looking map, and most of it plays very well, but I had big problems with some bits.
The three shamblers appearing just when I have run out of ammo was not cool. Intending the player to choose a certain specific action in response is all very well and good on paper, but in reality it's just as possible that they'll pick wrong and either die or get rewarded for surviving with a map empty of ammo and three shamblers blocking the only way forward. Bah.
The other major issue was a triple whammy at the end - the vore threw itself down into the pit, and when I went forward to shoot it a door locked me in that room. With a vore right in my face and no cover. Next time round the vore landed on the ledge (wierd inconsistency there) - I killed that, and proceeded only to find myself in an inescapable pit. With a shambler in my face and no cover.
I reloaded again and this time jumped around the edge of the room, went out the far side and proceeded to wander around the map for about five minutes trying to figure out wtf I was supposed to do next. Not cool.
I think you'd have been better off preventing the player from progressing out of that room if they didn't happen to play the correct way. The high-end-monster-in-your-face thing is also best avoided imo. Not a very fun end to an otherwise fantastic map.
Shamblers Live In Vain
When you look at the Doom mapping scene, you easily see that the majority of mappers have been heavily influenced by Romero. Basicaly treating the player as someone who has agreed on his own initiative to jump into the bowels of Hell and be subjected to a lot of tricks ans suprises, and disgusting things to torment the lot of man.
The scene tends to come up with a tremendous ammount of creative situations, like the Hell on Earth pak where the levels tend to let you roam freely, but you have to figure out the best layed route where you can engage the weaker monsters and build up to the larger ones. Interesting tactical twists occur in nearly every map despite the fact they are very hoard oriented.
The Quake scene tends to be very different. Players and critics expect maps to be 'balanced' and 'fair', ultimately meaning, 'no suprises', and as a result, there is not the variety in tactics, situations, tricks, traps, and etc. in the Quake scene as there exist in the Doom scene.
I tend to offer only general assessment of praise for maps that deserve the praise because the last thing anyone of us would want to do is stifle another mapper's creativity. I'm afraid your comments, Blackdog tend to lead in that direction. So you have to reload a few times to deal with those situations, what is the harm? I found myself in the places you mentioned doing the same thing, and my response was more on the lines, 'wow! That fucker got me there!'.
Good map because of the suprises and the things you did differently from the typical map, Than, not inspite of them.
is the name of the megawad I mentioned. HoE, of course, is the DoomII subtitle.
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