|Posted by than on 2006/07/20 21:40:56|
|I was going to release my new map tomorrow to celebrate the 10th birthday of Quake, but since I will be away this weekend I decided to release it a day early instead.
You can find more information, screenshots and a download link over at my QExpo booth. You'll need an updated engine such as FitzQuake or aguirRe's enhanced GLQuake to run it, because it is about 50 edicts over the limit :(
http://qexpo.quakedev.com/booth.php?id=29&page=150 (DAY FIVE)
The source .MAP and .RMF are both included in the zip, so if anyone wants to modify it for better DM play or whatever, then go ahead.
#31 posted by inertia
on 2006/07/22 22:16:23
doesn't stifle creativity -- you guys arguing about it does.
#32 posted by Zwiffle
on 2006/07/22 22:18:27
Are easy. Vore fights are also easy if you have enough space to manuever around the Vore.
Keeping a Shambler at bay is easy if you do the Shambler-shuffle. The Vore is a bit trickier, as long as you have enough space around the Vore to circle about. Once the Vore is gone, you can easily move past a corner, and all 50 Voreballs are gone.
#33 posted by golden_boy on 2006/07/23 06:55:28
well done than, clean map, good layout, good routing/flow especially around the gold key. fun. good ending. had to search around a bit how to get the silver key and had forgotten where the silver switch/door was.
what is the lift in the hub good for (the one that says, activated elsewhere), didn't need it somehow.
Engine was Joequake, found 1 secret (MH), found pretty much all weapons except for RL, is there one?
skill 0 (I, uhm, have a short attention span *blush*) didn't watch time, perhaps 25 minutes or such.
minor nitpick: r_speeds a bit high in places? could look through some doors, for example in the start room, probably maxsurfs or one of those things?
This map, like Antediluvian and e1m1rmx, should one day be in a "Quake Remapped" project ;-)
someone please make the corresponding wiz-metal map :-)
#34 posted by Trinca
on 2006/07/23 07:00:55
yes golden_boy there is a Rl :) nightmare secret :) with a extra surprive go find it...
#35 posted by PuLSaR
on 2006/07/23 11:35:48
nice work. Solid architecture, imaginative layout, good fights, good lighting.
Good work, Than.
3 secrets only btw
#36 posted by Vondur
on 2006/07/23 14:03:46
very nice level, than!
complex design, balanced gameplay, interesting brushwerk with alot of angles and cozy nooks and crannies all over. also, i liked the promising ending ;) shambler ambushes were intense and fun, and the level has properiest idbase atmosphere ever... i didn't expect one can make such giant remake of dm3.
now i'm waiting for the dm5rmx ;)
Er Dm4rmx ;)
#37 posted by Vondur
on 2006/07/23 14:04:34
I'm Sure RPG Won't Mind :)
#38 posted by Pauk
on 2006/07/23 15:55:10
Cue blatant self promotion.
We've done a mini review of DM3RMX on RPG's QExpo booth. Looky here: http://qexpo.quakedev.com/booth.php?id=55&page=171
#39 posted by R.P.G.
on 2006/07/23 20:50:02
What Paul said.
Also I forgot to mention in the review that I got lost once, and I noticed a bit of lighting that was unsourced. For shame, than! You're letting pro mapping go to your head.
Responses To Comments. (big Boring Post)
#40 posted by than
on 2006/07/24 00:24:47
Thanks for all the feedback, both positive and negative. I've read all the comments and have written my responses below.
Three shamblers is nasty if you go the wrong way, which is entirely possible if you miss the signs and panic when you hear them teleport in (I think I probably would do if I didn't know what to do). However, I'm certain there is enough ammo on normal skill and probably hard to take all three down without going to get the shaft. Of course, it depends on how much ammo the player wastes (picking up boxes when nearly full, missing shots etc.) so perhaps I should have thrown in a couple more boxes just to be on the safe side.
Fighting single shamblers with no cover is not particularly difficult, though I guess the one at the end is a bit cheeky as it appears in a tight space and he can get a cheap hit or two in if you aren't very quick. The vore that appears beforehand is supposed to land on the ledge, and always has done every time I tested the map.
There was a reason for that little door closing, but I forgot what it was now - I think the end fight was going to be quite different, and I didn't want the player retreating into the little cubby hole, but then I changed it :)
Some of the lights in there are actually directly copied from the original. The starting point for the map was to extract the entities from the original bsp using aguirRe's tools and use them as a guide to build the rest. The early lighting was entirely Romero's work, and I tweaked and changed most of it out by the time I had finished.
I tried to give the level a sort of radiosity feel to it without using Riots radiosity tools, so there are many bright lights and also a lot of very low brightness lights with attenuation multipliers set to 0.25 or so, so perhaps that is where the unsourced lighting is. Also, I probably forgot to add a few light sources in my rush to have it finished ;)
Finally, the lighting looks REALLY ass in regular gl engines that don't feature overbrights or anything. It takes out 50% of the contrast or so and the visuals lose a lot. In Fitz on my pc it looks good.
Having said all that, I didn't really go to any great lengths to be exciting with regard to lighting, as I was trying to keep it similar to the original map for DM purposes.
As for the map progression, I was trying to get the most out of the existing layout without adding too many extra areas. I did add several, but aside from the final area and the small pool control room (after getting the gl) they kinda fit neatly onto (or above) what is already there.
I wanted to reuse areas multiple times, because I like passing through the same area multiple times and having different things happen each time, and I also was trying to get as much gameplay in as possible.
Some of the testers found the layout confusing, and some didn't. I was aware it might be a problem, so I did add a lot of arrows and messages in particular problem spots (at the shambler ambush and when getting the silver key.) The exit is also highlighted several times, although the slipgate not functioning and the ability to go back to the start of the level (you have to do a couple of tricky/annoying jumps) from the end pit might also confuse.
The reason there are so many lifts and extra routes is mostly for coop players - especially the corridor from the start to the end and the lifts in the pool room and round atrium. With just one player, the lift in the round atrium has something to do with the super secret, but I won't say any more than that.
There is not a lot of exploration, by the way - it's fairly linear but if you take a wrong turn (miss a cue, forget where to use a key or just get lost) then yes, it can be a bit confusing :/
Paul: In response to your review, the layout and item placement for DM was supposed to be more or less the same - the source is included for anyone who wants to make improvements to the DM layout (more fun for FFA for example) or map in general.
I wasn't really concerned with r_speeds. The epoly can get a bit high in the pool room, and the wpoly is around 1000 max (from what I have found) in the final wateralpha'ed version. I could have kept them to 800 or so, but some of the testers wanted transparent water, and a couple encountered problems as they had wateralpha set to 0.5 or so in their config, so they were able to see the armour secret before finding it themselves.
#41 posted by bal
on 2006/07/24 01:17:48
Great map, I really enjoyed it, got lost and died once, but didn't come across any major problems.
Very nice work. =)
DM3RMX Added To SDA
#42 posted by TeamSDA on 2006/07/24 13:11:59
Review At My Site:
Not Played It Yet
#44 posted by Sielwolf
on 2006/07/24 14:31:06
but this will be one of those maps I play only after a good meal and a nice shower ;)
in Doom the monsters are much slower and inflict less damage then in Quake.But if you spawn some shamblers right on the player without cover then some will see it as unfair because they fry him instantly.
I have often been so annoyed by these situations that it really spoilt the fun playing a map, along the lines of "right, otherwise you wouldn�t get me anyway".
Awesome Map Yet Again
#45 posted by DaMaul on 2006/07/24 15:41:56
I claim to be Than's biggest fan boy.
I'm such a big Than fan that I even stalked him to the point of getting a job at the same company as him. He got a bit scared however and ran away to Japan.
Of Course There Are Artful Ways
#46 posted by HeadThump
on 2006/07/24 16:49:55
and less evolved ways to handle difficult situations like the Shambler ambush. I liked Than's approach because the situation was open ended in your choices of where you could go. I ran back to where I left a an ammo box, and I managed to telefrag one of the Shamblers while doing so.
i didnt have any problems with ammo or difficulty, in fact i thought it was very well balanced.
#48 posted by than
on 2006/07/24 22:07:42
:( :( :(
Maybe I should have gone to a bit more effort with that area to get it to look good in regular GL engines.
Glad to see it added to the SDA by the way :)
Regarding speedruns, there is one HUGE shortcut I realised exists. It was not intentionally built as a shortcut, but it looks like it would be good for nipping through. Don't know how good it would be in a 100% run though.
#49 posted by scar3crow on 2006/07/25 00:24:00
on normal i didnt find the 3 shamblers that difficult, i had to try, but i wasnt desperate, using ssg and ng.
now throw a fiend into the mix and it either gets easier or harder... (id probably get the fiend to leap into a shambler).
#50 posted by Kinn
on 2006/07/25 15:06:17
killer map than, I guess what Vondur said really - proper idbase atmosphere with modern visuals :D
The layout was great - I didn't get lost at all really. The smablers schooled me though :<
Here's my first run demo if you fancy a laugh :}
#51 posted by Sielwolf
on 2006/07/27 08:30:03
the visuals are very well done, I�d like to comment mainly on the gameplay:
-the spawning issue: the first shambler crew is very doable, space to retreat is there with cautious play, but the second one at like 133 enemies is just lol.
Why ? Because those situations are so damn easy and boring the second time, figure out where and when they spawn, park your arse on the right spot, game over. Though of course it depends on the type of monsters spawning. Had the map been an overkill from the first moment I wouldn�t complain really.
Still a great map ;)
#52 posted by Pauk
on 2006/07/27 16:35:57
I knew about the item placement / layout etc, I read the readme :). Fundamentally it�s a problem with the original map that you�ve inherited and there's nothing wrong with that. I�d love to see tweaked item placement. It's still a good laugh as it is.
I wonder though what DM would be like on the full SP layout?
#53 posted by Jaromir83 on 2006/07/28 14:54:25
Wow! Great design. Looks perfect, one of the best base levels ever. When I played it for a first time I was sometimes feeling lost and those shamblers were too tough for me. Much better than my attempt for base level called Slipgate#13 (part of an In Ovo "episode").
#54 posted by Jaromir83 on 2006/07/28 14:56:20
And Than, I am looking forward for your planned Quoth map very, very much!
#55 posted by Jaromir83 on 2006/07/28 17:41:43
Original DM3 with its lack of detail and misalligned textures looks really funny in compare with this masterpiece.
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