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SM137 - Unthemed
Two SP maps by Drew (Quoth) and Trinca.


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Pirst Fost! 
Cool maps, blatantly not speedmaps but that's fine because they're good maps for it. Drews very much a proper map with a good theme / layout, good gameplay until the lack of monsters to finish. Textures a bit OTT though. Trincas nice textures and build quality, funny gimmick gameplay, quite well done. 
Drew, that was a thoroughly excellent map. BOB looks very cool coming out of pitch darkness. And anything with snow is always good in my books. The fight in the long corridor with the rocketeers at the end was also cool, and could really be made more of in a proper release.

Trinca's map was very Trinca, so very enjoyable, but the end battle was a bit too easy if you save the quad. 
Fist shot looks like a neil manke map 
looks like the first shot uses textures from Starship 2. 
Quoth is have annoying. I`m not play over this. 
I'm sure Drew will be sobbing into his Ribena. 
Starship 2 textures are awesome. Quoth is awesome. The ending sucks. Annoyo! sucks. I took about 5 hours total to build and light the map. one big session where almost everything was built, and the end where it was lit, touched up and had a crappy finish area.
Looking forward to playing Trincas when my internet is back!
Thanks for the comments! 
Played it! I loved the way that was set up. Very nicely done! 
zomgggg drew you are back!!! ;) great map!!! :)
had lot of fun with it!

see my first demo for some lought ;) realy realy fucking luck on this!!! 
For a speedmap pack, this is one of the best I played since a long time:

Trinca's map is very good: good lightning, good gameplay, and also i,pressive end with errrr how many shamblers ? I didn't found time to count them. Simply frantic, simply good... and knve textures are well used there. I hope to see more SP now !

Drew: This Polar base is awesome, and I can feel the coldness of the ice! Good architecture, good gameplay, very good lightning, and come on, I want a SP on this them right now !

Guys, you all rocks: I'm directly going to replay both map just for fun!!

Keep it up ! It was top ! 
Trinca's was nice and fun unless one went down first.
Drew's was nice and fun apart from the initial wtf by the textures, the darkness, and the lack of health and ammo in parts. 
Drew's lacked ammo... though I probably played in the wrong order, jumped up from the start. I couldn't kill the bob since I had an axe only at that point. Also the second shamby was too much. It also took quite a while to find all the buttons and routes at times... Were the windows near the RL guys clipped or were they just too narrow to fit through? Annoying, I tried to jump through many many times.

I liked the lighting and the silhouettes at places, darkness didn't bother me. That was the best feature of the map.

Trinca's, well, I played it multiple times till I could finish it. Quite fun combat. Keeps you on the move. That design was well done. Also it looked fine for a very quickly constructed map.
I perhaps would have taken out the ogres (or at least some of them) from the uppermost rocks, they caused too much randomness... 
as the quoth monsters are used more like this, it's clear how they have to be changed:
bob needs slightly more firing delay as does the grenade shooter green enforcer with his shotgun. At the moment there is little one can do at close range. Also bobs annoyingly hover directly above you and in quake you can't aim there!
Maybe all that is already changed in the notorious Quoth 2... 
Quoth Monsters 
In Quoth2, Bobs aren't as tough, which more or less solves most of the problems. If it can be dispatched reasonably quickly, it's mostly no problem. The lasers still hurt, though - but the pattern is simple enough (4 shots IIRC), and he has a distinctive pre-firing sound. He should be placed in somewhat open areas, too.

I agree about the sound/firing delay with the defender though. ATM he fires, then reloads. He should load, then fire instead and the sound should be changed to reflect that.

Both monsters should IMO be treated as minibosses, or above-average monsters. No "6 bob" hordes in corridors.

e1m1quoth uses both well. 
Agree With 5th Post 
Trinca's map is cool. I got nightmare 100% in 2 minutes. That demo sux. :) 
I Like Bobs And Defenders 
The only thing I would say is that sometimes after you kill a defender, another shot sounds which he never actually fires.

I like both monsters cause they're challenging. You have to strafe quickly. Challenging fun gameplay. I mean look at the bots in Q3A. Fun gameplay but they're much harder to kill than defenders or bobs. Or the grunts in HL1.

It took me a while but just the same as an Enforcer, I can now strafe round and shoot a defender dead in three shots with a SS, mostly without getting shot. Its not like trying to kill a Frank Fontaine is it!!?! He's a BOSS. 
Yeah, The Dead Guy Shooting Sound 
maybe the shotgun sound is triggered before the firing... 
got 0:28 on the ER on trincas map, cba to shave of more 
RickyT23 said:

<I Like Bobs And Defenders>

i hate then :\ make gameplay slow :\ 
Nice Maps... 
I am not crazy about the texture selection in Drew's but it more than made up for it in the gameplay department. One of the lifts was poorly lit and some shootable targets seemed AWOL; but you seem to be finally hitting your stride again ;-)

Trinca's was set up much better than some of his previous horde offerings. This time you could actually see ways to manage the crowd instead of just relying on dumb luck.

Keep it up! 
He should load, then fire instead and the sound should be changed to reflect that.

Oops... I was wrong there, that's what he does in fact. Don't know what I was thinking. 
I Like Bobs And Defenders 
They make for a change of pace. 
Orbs - Trinca Run. 
You need to do some shit dropping down and getting Shamb boosted into the tele, surely?? 
Trinca's: Fun, but I was hitting f6 like a monkey until I figured out the size of the place. Spamming the Shamblers with quadrockets was a larf, but not too challenging after clearing the upper floor. I'd not recommend using that teleport exit as a prefab either - the floor texture with the little spikes was cool on its own, and might have looked better with just the trigger_cahngelevel on its own, no teleport brush at all.

Drew's: A mixed bag for me. I didn't like the upsized lo-rez rock and snow textures, but the map style was good. Lighting was nice, but very diffuse as well, some spots would have helped the darkness more. I could see this being made into a full size map, a bit more platesting and extension after the gold key 'door' and it would've been great. I hit a non-progressino when the platform went up after killing the 2nd Shambler (without me on it). I just noclipped to the key, but then realised that the windows were clipped - what did I miss there? 
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