I also experienced inflated monster counts - 358 on my first run through, and 328 on my second. After some investigating, it seems that whenever I save a game, then load it, the count goes up. Until that point, the total monster count displayed is correct.

However, opening the .sav in Wordpad reveals that the total_monsters global was already at the increased value when I saved, even though the count in the status bar was still 306.

I was able to easily reproduce this in aguirRe's engine (neh v3.08) - just killed ~25 monsters, saved, then loaded: total_monsters jumped to 311. Probably a bug in the spawning code of Quoth? 

I did all testing in my own bug-fixed Quoth progs, I'll test using the original also. It might be the horde-spawning that causes the killcount errors, I think I've fixed several of those. 

I get the impression (from a brief look) that this is rather different in Quoth. 

plenty of killcount errors here, already in the 2nd room where some dogs are horde_spawned.

This explains Spirit's demo issues. If you feel it's a problem, use the Warp progs instead. 

Its really nice to hear some good comments for a change - also some very usefull constructive criticism, tips and pointers! Thanks for the feedback!

Still waiting for a NH uber-quick demo! >;-)

Trinca - What happened to your eyes? 

why doesnt "bind 9 impulse 250" work in fitz?
To select the Plasmagun I mean, by pressing "9" on keyboard. The console just quotes me usage instructions when I type this... 

Would you say that the sign00n buffer thingy is killing the correct killcount?
Predicted - Level wouldnt load if too close to limit
Actual - Killcount f@cked when using savegames :-/

Signon buffer - predicted SOLUTION ?

Darkplaces engine - a wonder if using DP will fix killcount/savegames bug? 

You need to type it as

bind 9 "impulse 250"

including the quotes. Otherwise you end up binding the key to impulse without the number. Probably worth added to the config.cfg file. Do people feel that a more natural, single word console command for selecting the plasma gun, something like weapon_plasma, would be worth adding to quoth2? 

How about

"plasma"

I like it - like:

"god"

or

"fly"

Or: How about

"w_plasma"? 

I don't think that's so necessary, tbh. You only add it to your config once. 

No engine can correct this progs bug, it doesn't even care what's dead or not. And the engine signon buffer limitation has nothing to do with it either, you can't load the map if that's exceeded. 

no idear RickyT23 they are all red :\ going to doctor tonight... to see what it is! the pharmacy gave me some stuff but since is not working properly will go to doctor today 

This is really a improvement over your last map.
Architecture was good and strong, really nice brushwork. Very good use of textures and good ligtning.

Played it on hard and found it a bit unballanced, had to godmode near the end. 8-)
Had some wrong monstercount as well, but now we know why! 8-)

Hope to see some maps from you that isn't a base map but medieval or runic.

Keep them coming! 

I dunno guys, I'm not much on readme's but it was pretty plain - put the maps in your quoth directory and use fitzquake.

Great map. Damm it oozed with eye candy. Everything was neat and tidy. Even the boxes looked good. I guess I didn't play your first map or don't remember it but I try to play them all.
When I saw big map, 350 monsters, I didn't think I would like it. I was wrong. Congrats 

too tired to say much... nice work. this is a solid release. I was hurt a little bit by not finding the plasma gun until later exploration. I guess this was my own fault for not trying all routes, though. 

As I betatested this level I was rather quick impressed by the precious texture and brush work. I was amazed by the large scale the map had, as well as the straight lined subdiveded parts. The way the game enfolds is good, small amounts of monsters in cascade with some though hard fights.

The way you constructed the two marine bases in each other with the cave part was something that impressed me.
The feeling of a once excisting mine bridge, caught in a missile debree.
Really liked the hydraulic lightning session.

And again... not finished playing this release,
but sureley a winner to me. 

I've experimented lately with an old botcam feature called Kascam, e.g. included in the Omicron bots. The botcam will automatically produce a "recammed" version if you use it for recording demos. I've now made a demo of this map on Hard in god mode, with Kascam operating the camera: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/thehand_kascam.7z .

The demo is in std Q1 protocol 15 format, but due to an oversight of mine it requires 4096 edicts support, which not all engines have. Any of my engines, Fitz (if you up the edict limit), DP and possibly others will do, but e.g. JoeQ won't (limited to 2048). Sorry about this.

You'll first see the Kascam client idling for a while, waiting for me to come in and then the action should begin. The intention of the demo is to show off the Kascam feature in this big and monster dense map. I hope you'll like it! 

... and I liked it a lot.

I will not list what others said, as I agree with them: globally it is visible you made a lot of effort on brushwork. I think also gameplay could have been refined, it is quite hard sometimes to survive to spawning hordes, except if you know what will happen.. Nothing special concerning lightning effects..

Anyway, I had a good moment of fun, and I will look forward your next release ;)

Keep it up !! 

I played it with the telejano engine and quoth mod. It played perfectly with no bugs or problems. I played on the hardest level and saved frequently. It was a BLAST. I loved it from the opening and didn't want it to end.
I prefer base maps, lots of secrets and lots of monsters. This map delivered. Cannot wait to play your next(hopefully, another base map please) map.
Slaine 

This map is so good, how are you ever going to top it?

I played this on hard again, but this time binding impulse 250 to 9 ;)

It was hard. But I like hard maps as hard. Very challenging, barely managed.

The play-testing and feedback from multiple beta-testers definitely shows.

Back in 2005 when Quoth first game out, I didn't like it at first. Possibly because I didn't have a familiarity with it or possibly because some of the earlier Quoth maps felt like they used Quoth characters for the sake of using them.

But the last several Quoth maps have been fantastic. Maybe every Quoth map released in 2007. The extra characters, powerups and functions add so much depth and diversity to maps and it sure beats seeing out-of-place Ogres in base maps like old school maps use. 

I quite liked the last one, but this one is markedly better in pretty much every area. No more confusion as to where to go, much more balanced gameplay thats a blast and very nice visuals, especially the texturing.

Lighting was perhaps the only area which could have been slightly better, although I didnt play with the lit file, just regular quake but it didnt quite suit the texturing in some spots.

Otherwise, great stuff. Keep it up. 

ok, finally had time to play properly!!! still think in hard is to hard!!! have a lot of fucking boring fights to many hard guys in same place, far away boring fights:\ always spawning stuff :\ errr hated!!!

Normal is more acceptable but still boring

Brushwork is outstanding!!! love it a lot!!!

Note! When i beta tested just had a version... so after silver key door didn�t had that part...

So my final note is brushwork is really amazing 9/10!!!

But game play still crappie in my opinion... spamming from behind with no warnings? errr this is in underground with kell textures!!! The vore... spawn behind us... man please put some messages... fucking unfair! I still hate your game play on hard... sorry fill me up with lots of frustration!

gameplay 5/10

anyway thks for this lovely map 

Nice map. Thanks. This is the most i've enjoyed a quoth map.. It was great finding the secret at the end and launching down on the two bosses (you can do some damage to those things up close with the shovel, too!). Must have re-played it that scene a dozen times on normal and hard..

The long corridor before the end was pretty tough.. probably a dozen goes. It's _alwyas_ cool finding cave levels beneath bases. Awesome when you blow up the entrance. I don't know how gameplay would be without finding the plasma gun straight away (and still hate looking at that penis model. Has anyone redone it?)

Taking home aguiRe's kascam demos to try out. 

hi, where do I find golden key please? somewhere in the underground room with ceiling laser-shooters? I gave up searching after 15 minutes... Good to have so many plasma clips, I didnt have to save my ammo. Most of the corridors and rooms look superBly. 

When you make your way back out of the underground area and re-enter the part of the map at the top of the large outside staircase, procede past the top of the stairs round to the room where you originally found the silver key. Here a button has been uncovered. Press the button to extend the bridge over to the Gold Key Room. Carry on through the Silver Key Room, out the door you should be in the area where you found the Nailgun, you can either turn right or cross the room to the Gold Key Door. Turn right, then right again, onto the area where the first enforcer was stood of the whole level! You should now see a fully extended bridge allowing you to cross to the Gold Key Room Area - shoot soldiers, go down lift, empty the 'Arena' area of monsters - this unlocks a lift which takes you up to the Gold Key Room - Key is at the top of this lift...