|Posted by Shambler on 2010/02/24 14:48:17|
|Better than Q3A in the following ways:
Easily customisable to change some of the shitness of Q3A: remove headbob, remove gunbob, centre weapon etc etc.
Finally fixed fucking damage feedback so it actually works.
Hud isn't as terrible.
The movement feel doesn't seem quite as bad, still a bit lacking in air control but not as vague and floaty as before.
New maps are mostly really good, ZtnDM3, Asylum, thingy Towers especially.
It's also, unlike Q3A, definitely worth the money :)
However bouncing items are still shitty, and some player skins are almost invisible in more highly textured maps.
Anyway. I am on as Shamblerrr. I suck, so if anyone else does, befriend me and let's suck together ^_~
#76 posted by ijed
on 2014/08/28 18:17:22
Preselected weapons and generic ammo?
They just broke every single level made to date.
And no new ones will be able rise above mediocrity level of play quality.
Do they even play games any more?
#77 posted by JneeraZ
on 2014/08/28 18:32:14
I get the impression that Quake Live is like a laboratory for them. They try stuff out and see what sticks.
As Far As I Understand It
#78 posted by czg
on 2014/08/28 20:17:18
The loadout thing is what you start with by default, and you'll still be able to pick up other weapons in the levels? Universal ammo sounds rather wild tho.
I might be wrong and I don't really care, I haven't played q3 in any serious manner since q3dm17 when q3test came out.
Spritit; do u mean fuckin' ;-)
#79 posted by Shambler
on 2014/08/28 22:26:31
Added global Ammo Packs, in lieu of weapon specific ammo, where each pack grants you a small amount of ammo for each weapon in your inventory.
Reduced ammo respawn time from 40 seconds to 10 seconds.
Shitting fuck that sounds exceptionally terrible for all the obvious reasons. In addition to making item placement semi-redundant, it's going to make weapon and ammo management as a player semi-redundant.
Off the top of my head I can't think of a single hypothetical reason how this could any benefits to gameplay whilst it being an utterly awful idea is blindly obvious. Why the hell did they do it??
Loadouts doesn't sound that terrible for maybe CTF, but a bloody awful idea if it strays into any other modes.
Auto-bunny-jumping sounds like pointless dumbing down - and I say this as someone who never learnt to bunny jump. I accept it as a SKILL I've never tried to learn and would not want it handed to me on a plate for no reason.
One More Reason To Let My Account Expire When That Email Comes Again..
#81 posted by ijed
on 2014/08/28 22:36:56
Hmm still seems broken though, like not thought through at all.
"let's play poker but remove all the clubs, spades and hearts from the pack."
Maybe they are wanting to strip the game down to 0 and then add and remove stuff to and from it though.
But if players stop playing because its not as fun any more then they've basically burnt down the laboratory by making a mistake with the first experiment...
#82 posted by Spirit
on 2014/08/28 23:28:08
The bunny jumping is limited, you are still better if you can do it properly.
They made maps look worse with new unnecessary textures and effects (WOWOWOWOMG GODRAYS!!).
New machine gun is a OP hitscan midrange for people who can't handle LG.
new layout is ugly flat poop and confusing
#83 posted by nitin
on 2014/08/29 06:00:54
at those changes. Why not just give everyone unlimited ammo?
Quake 3 Is Dead To Me Now
The little trust that was left in Id is now completely gone. Time to move on.
#85 posted by Spirit
on 2014/08/29 13:27:26
It's still fun to me and there is nothing better.
#86 posted by negke
on 2014/08/29 17:19:38
Some of the changes sound acceptable, but loadout and generic ammo seems absolutely inane. Why sacrifice a core charactistic of the game just to cater to a different player base (with uncertain outcome even).
#87 posted by Lunaran
on 2014/08/29 19:11:41
I'm reconciling this with the words "in certain game modes." I haven't looked (bc why would i do research, it's friday) but I imagine that this is for a kind of butt-simple introductory mode for new players, where it's intentional that you don't have to have the maps pre-memorized to be competitive.
Quake is kind of harsh that way otherwise. Item control is part of the game, so if you don't know where the items are, your introductory experience becomes "spawn and die a lot until you learn the map." I guess we're blind to that harshness because we're used to it, or we all just pull the console down and run around a new MP map empty gawping at the art before we play it maybe. I know I've had similar experiences in other games (join, die a fuckload without knowing why, get irritated, quickly stop being in the mood for this, decide to come back some other time, never come back).
Auto-bunnyhopping though I mean what the fuck
#88 posted by ijed
on 2014/08/29 20:39:32
We were talking about this the other day in regards to teaching kids video games development.
Basically how we've become so good at designing interfaces that the damn kids aren't used to having to learn how to use them.
This extrapolates to all technology, especially games.
Finding the key by having to you know, explore a level and look at things must seem arcane to the damn kids of today who are used to NPC characters telling them where to go, world map overlays with pulsing ! points on them and so on.
The results of such designs are both good and bad. Some fucking suck (Doom3 was a parody of Doom1 level design if you strip away the graphics) whilst others were pretty cool (Deadspace line on the floor thing).
The mentality of the damn kid of today is that they should be expected to learn the absolute bare minimum before being able to play.
And, looking at it objectively, they're exactly right.
Finally, some images:
My 4 year old daughter has no problem at all using the first one, while many adults (most?) still have problems with the second one.
#89 posted by metlslime
on 2014/08/29 21:11:10
There's definitely a conflation between usability and fun, in modern game dev. I have been guilty of thinking this way for a long time, and maybe it's because a lot of times, usability is a valid goal.
But the negative side of treating usability as king, is the elimination of a lot of player activities that can be fun -- such as drawing a map or writing down clues. Player aids like that are sometimes necessary (getting truly stuck is definitely not fun) but they are best when they are opt-in. That's one of the positive aspects of the Dead Space locator line -- it was invisible until the player pressed pressed a button to activate it.
Also, the final state of evolution for modern game tutorials seems to be a tightly scripted first chapter of game which has most of the player's abilities locked out, so that you can literally only do one thing at each juncture, to make sure you learn it, and so that the player can't do any experimentation at their own pace and on their own terms. Randomly trying shit can also be fun, as long as the core interactions of the game give rich feedback (c.f. "juiciness".)
#90 posted by JneeraZ
on 2014/08/29 21:17:24
I also think that the idea of increasing usability is a noble one but I think that most developers take the lazy route - aka the glowing path or giant HUD arrow or whatever.
I think with a carefully designed system, you could ensure the player doesn't get lost but also feels like they still have a good amount of freedom.
Proper design in this area would result in players feeling like they "figured it out" and "solved" the levels without being aware they were led the entire time.
The lazy "we have to ship in 3 months!" solution is the glowing path on the floor.
We need to start leaning towards the subtle.
This Has Been Posted A Million Times
#91 posted by ijed
on 2014/08/29 23:59:16
But so what:
Learning through play.
He also did a new one not so long ago about zelda, but not relevant to the discussion.
For the good or bad solutions I think the problem isn't so much that the developers are lazy, more that nobody cares enough about the usability during the development and as such the big ugly band aid is slapped on at the last minute.
The ship in three months panic :)
The reason they don't care is because subtle solutions are, well, subtle. It's not immediately obvious if something is working, and it only takes one person in the decision making process to get cold feet and the whole thing collapses like a domino run.
#92 posted by ijed
on 2014/08/30 00:03:51
I really liked the locator line.
It reminded me of playing Doom64 in map mode, somehow.
In a clever way it made me explore more - I knew where to go, and that I wouldn't get lost, so I wanted to see what was down that other route, how the level interconnected and so on.
I did feel that the levels could have been more intentionally labyrinthine to take advantage of this effect more.
#93 posted by Lunaran
on 2014/08/30 20:34:04
Interesting, this is straying into the territory of a blog post I've got mostly written that I haven't posted. I was going to do a post mortem on my way-old QBOARD.WAD level and it grew into a comparison of Doom and Quake level design centered on how much the player is or is not led by his nose.
I should finish that I guess.
A New Blog Post Would Be Good
The BLOPS one is peak pretentiousness.
#95 posted by Spirit
on 2014/09/03 19:56:45
the item timers are actually fun for random tdm
On The Other Hand...
#96 posted by Shambler
on 2014/09/03 21:22:03
The rest of the changes blow dick in FFA (nb I only play botmatch BUT aside from the quality of opponents it's the same fucking game / ruined game).
Starting weapons make it a ridiculous spam-fest, right off the bat it's rockets and plasma and bullshit flying everywhere. No build-up while players find weapons, much less variety in fighting due to that.
Universal ammo packs make it even worse as you're always replenishing your starting weapon.
Movement around the map is partially discouraged as there's less need to hunt weapons and ammo. It makes the whole thing feel like Rocket Arena on a larger scale.
These are all obvious reasons why this is a terrible idea that makes the gameplay worse, and yup that's exactly how it happens.
Item timers are so-so. They're a noob-friendly pussy option but they don't really ruin the actual combat.
Same with the digits for how much damage you've done.
The new menus and screens are really fucking bland compared to the originals.
#97 posted by anonymous user on 2014/09/07 11:34:35
"We feel that these elements overall help bring Quake one step closer to being a modern shooter, while still holding true to our roots of remaining an incredibly fast paced old school shooter. "
They got confused, it's modern shooters that have to be brought closer to Quake, not the contrary
Qwayklivuh Is Deaduh
#98 posted by Spirit
on 2014/09/12 00:06:01
#99 posted by -
on 2014/09/12 00:09:22
Played For A Bit.
Most of the changes are pretty bad on paper, but could have worked fine if they weren't applied all at once. Spawning with the Machine Gun only always feels like shit, so I don't mind the loadouts that much - it's almost like a perverse form of Team Fortress with 16 classes.
However little balance was left, though, got completely thrown out of the window with making all ammo unified and making weapons respawn practically instantly. Sure, make me spawn with a RL and low ammo if you want to... but don't immediately let me get from 5 rockets to 25!
Item timers - every "pro" player used to count the next respawn time on their own. I don't mind this becoming global.
The new announcer couldn't sound any more bored.
A sound playing as feedback for when you get a kill isn't a bad idea - but why did it have to be a cartoony ding?!
I want a Doom Live now.
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