|Posted by killpixel on 2014/07/03 01:58:58|
|Way Too Many Screenshots Trailer
Unfinished, Yet Released
Sadly, I'm releasing my first, and only, "real map" in an unfinished state. Because I simply lack the time, the probability that this map will never see completion is very high. I'm not fond of releasing unfinished stuff, and I very nearly chose not to. But, the thought of this thing dying in obscurity on my harddrive wasn't a pretty thought either. If this was near completion, I would just finish it. Horrifyingly, it still needs somewhere in the neighbourhood of one to two hundred hours of attention (for what I had in mind, anyway). Ain't nobody got time for that.
This map happened by accident. I wanted to see what it really took, at a technical/logistical level, to make a map. I laid down a few brushes and familiarized myself with the program. One thing led to another and soon enough I had 5 hours into the map. My thought then was, "well, it's not like I can just stop now." I then proceeded to tumble down the rabbit hole. 5 hours turned to 20 hours, 20 to 50, 50 to 100, 100 to 200, 200 to 300. I think this map has about 300 hours of my life in it. Knowing that and looking at the map, the appropriate response of any experienced mapper is "...how tha fuck?" The long hours are due to learning how to map, doing things wrong (like tons of brushes) and redoing them, iteration, brain farts and completely scrapping entire areas because they didn't make the grade. Plus, I like to compile the map and check it out every 10 brushes.
I released an earlier version of this on QuakeOne about a year ago. That would explain any deja vu you may be experiencing.
About The Map & Suggestions
This doesn't play like a Quake map. I never had the intention of making a Quake map, it just happened to be the game that was available. I say that so you don't get your hopes up or go in guns blazing only to find yourself at spawn over and over again. It plays like a less forgiving Doom3. In all honesty, gameplay was not on my radar for the first third of the map, I just wanted to make something pretty. There are some purists out there that don't believe in quick saving... well, good luck with that.
No single section is 100% complete. Some are close, others are empty walls lit by one bright light with one or two random enemies near by. Areas that have not yet been connected by geometry, or made for use later in the level, are tied together by teleporters.
Fuck. I wish I had the time to finish this thing.
Oh yeah. Play this in the dark, preferably with game music. I genuinely wouldn't bother trying to play this in a well lit environment. If you complain "it's too dark" I'll know you played it in the light...
Compatibility & Issues
Unfortunately, this map is a no-go for DirectQ (which is the engine I used exclusively when making this). Among other anomalies, a key entity (door) in a particular gag is invisible, totally destroying the surprise of the gag. The very beginning of map is broken in FTE, it doesn't like the spawn set up I've got going on. KPCN isn't very well play tested in anything other that DirectQ and Darkplaces. For overall best performance and compatibility, I would recommend Darkplaces.
I strongly suggest nearest texture filtering. Linear causes some artefacts by way of "smudging" in parts of the texture that should not be visible, including fullbrights in some cases. It also shows a lot of seems in some hacked up surfaces. And it's just ugly at this texture resolution.
Use texture packs at your own risk. Some textures are custom and will clash. One secret area relies on a fullbright button, which wasn't on a texture pack I tried (can't remember which one).
I've included the source for a couple reasons. First, for some comedic material. Really, there is some wacky shit going on. Remember, noob map. Second, if someone (or more) gets a wild hair and wants to complete it, well, I think that'd be just fine. Perhaps, even if several people just wanted to add a few rooms and neat ideas then hand it off to the next guy, that would be stellar. Just saying.
Damn, enough yapping, here's the download
Time To Upgrade P7zip
Feckin pain in the arse
cp makefile.linux_x86_asm_gcc_4.X makefile.linux (or similar - see README)
cp bin/7za /usr/local/bin
7za x kpcn2014.zip
That was amazing - ta. Really achieves a lot that so many scare shooters have tried to do. No-one that i've seen in Q1/Q3 has done this so well.
Apart from being short, my only criticism is the doll - while being totally f-ing amazing - is, in retrospect, out of place with the theme.
#33 posted by killpixel
on 2014/07/05 21:15:40
@FifthElephant - Thanks, interesting to watch.
@DaZ - Heh, your playthrough was interesting and gave me a petty good laugh a couple times.
I have no intentions of making another map for Quake, but maybe if another map jam comes along I'll try making a proper map.
@stevenaaus - Cool glad you liked it! Funny to see such differences in opinions.
#34 posted by RickyT33
on 2014/07/06 02:12:22
I would love to see a map from you!
Also this map looks awesome, I LOVE the way that rather than being predictable, this map is full of random and shocking/spooky surprises. It's like the F.E.A.R. of Quake maps! Nice work!
#35 posted by killpixel
on 2014/07/06 03:00:49
Glad it tickled a fancy or two, to one degree or another.
I'll check out the next speedmap session and/or map jam. I think mapping in a structured way would be cool (predetermined art direction/playstyle and a deadline). Plus, making a quake map in the classic style would be sweet as well.
We shall see!!!
I Liked This
#36 posted by Lunaran
on 2014/07/06 05:59:20
You've certainly got an eye for what looks cool, and how to twist expectations to spook the player.
I think you should remix Hell in a Can.
Can We Please Have A Normal Zip File
#37 posted by nitin
on 2014/07/06 06:57:12
I dont really want to d/l another program just top open this psrticular zip.
You Should, Nitin
#38 posted by Cocerello
on 2014/07/06 11:41:18
There is more files in this board or in Quaketastic that are in .7zip extension (one third of the demos in Quaketastic, for example). And that extension is probably the third most used nowadays in Internet, as .ace and .arj aren't as used as 20 years ago. The official program is pretty neat too, and free, so no more piracy with winrar.
I'm glad there was at least something in there you could take away from it. This map is just bunch of ideas n' consecutive order. I wanted the final version to have about 300 enemies :]
There is always things to learn in any map, but as this one is a bundle of ideas, there is more. For example, the room after the NG with the huge cylinders. When i'll look at the source, i'll see way more.
For the record, I love Doom3... if that's not already obvious after playing this.
I can't see Doom 3 in there at least from the layout and brushwork, those areas are too open for Doom3.
And here i thought that your inspiration was from movies like Alien an Forbidden planet ...
I'll check out the next speedmap session and/or map jam.
Good, good, one more acolyte to the cabal.
#39 posted by Spirit
on 2014/07/06 11:52:22
The pak file is packed with LZMA inside that zip archive, what a weird thing to do.
Any chance that you simply add a exit trigger in the closet at the end? The map is totally worthy of being a full release. (And rename that stuff and fix the readme and use a plain zip ;) ).
#40 posted by Spirit
on 2014/07/06 11:55:13
#41 posted by Lunaran
on 2014/07/06 19:54:46
I can't see Doom 3 in there at least from the layout and brushwork, those areas are too open for Doom3.
But you can see it in the monsters constantly appearing everywhere but in front of you. :)
I was serious, by the way. casspq1rmx. It's right up your alley. I tried to remake it for Doom3 way back but it was way too big a project. If you don't, I'm gonna steal all the cool looking bits out of your map and do it myself.*
*never actually gonna do this**
**but I wanna
Stuff N' Fluff
#42 posted by killpixel
on 2014/07/06 19:56:31
@ Lunaran - Glad you liked it. I was thinking about going through and uniquely texturing the whole thing... (I jest)
@ nitin - Looks like spirit has got you covered. I didn't realize LZMA wasn't well handled by other programs. Ironically, I opted for a zip instead of a rar for the sake of compatibility :/
@ Cocerello - And here i thought that your inspiration was from movies like Alien an Forbidden planet...
I guess I meant Doom3 from a gameplay perspective. Visually, influences are Alien and Star Wars (like 90% of all scifi).
@ Spirit - If I repack it into a normal zip (which I very well may do) I'll put a trigger at the end. However, I really don't think it's worthy at all of being a full release. Only half the level is even present. What needs to be fixed in the readme? Just add general info?
Anyway, still really neat to see the different viewpoints. Some things that people liked others really disliked, namely, all the gags ans scripted events.
This got me thinking about contrivance in video games. Ultimately, my thought process became increasingly ontological but the gist is this:
A video game is a contrivance as is every mechanic contained within. In my example, moving the player around and altering the terrain with scripted events is a very heavy handed, or obviously contrived, form of progression. However, is it any less contrived than moving the player around simply by map layout? Granted, using map layout is more subtle, as it's very organic and mimics fundamentals of the real world. As a human, our possibility of movement is determined the the available space to move through. But, one way or another, the player will be ushered from point A to point B. They can either get there by taking a left, then a right, up some steps and so on, or by having the floor fall out from under them or some other scripted event.
I guess for some people, scripted events (myself included) shatters the illusion of choice, which really is just that, an illusion. As I said, the player will make it from point A to point B one way or another. The art of making a game, I suppose, is making things fun while suspending disbelief, or at least to get the player to buy in to whatever you're selling.
Meh, ok, I'm just gonna stop right there. I wanted to talk about how various game types, stories and other vehicles of progression come into this idea, but this could get ranty. Plus, I doubt I'll say anything that hasn't already been thought about to great lengths by everyone here.
That's Funny, I Was Going To Nominate
#43 posted by Drew
on 2014/07/06 19:56:31
Hell in a can for the next 'let's play' thing actually.
#44 posted by Spirit
on 2014/07/06 20:17:39
We don't know what's missing and I thought it was a damn fine map!
The readme could have things like a date and your post at func as information. The commandline is wrong, it is "+map" not "-map".
#45 posted by Cocerello
on 2014/07/06 21:00:00
to add a trigger_changelevel to the map and pack it.
+5 for your submissiona to the next speedmaping session or map jam.
+10 to the hell in a can remake.
Handy Extraction Utility
#46 posted by Tamarisk on 2014/07/07 15:16:19
With the discussion of the compression used on this file, I wanted to let you know of a really nice Windows (also runs on OS X and Linux with a bit of extra work) extraction utility I found last year.
If you go to the Support section and then click on "portable version", you can d/l a .zip file which doesn't install anything else onto your system - The .exe version has an offer for some other software. Just look for the file dated (at the time of this writing) 30-Mar-2014.
I use this software mainly for accessing old .sit Macintosh files I have and it works fantastic. Also handles a ton of other formats including the file here without problems.
Highly recommended program and really the only one you will need as it is so light weight and useful.
Please note, I have no connection with this other than being a very satisfied user.
Is There Going To Be A Repack Version Of This Map?
#47 posted by Yhe1 on 2014/07/11 05:54:54
#48 posted by [Kona]
on 2014/07/11 08:13:46
That was awesome killpixel. This is what a modern version of hell in a can should be like, in fact it's what the original should be like. Really feels like a twisted sci fi ship at times.
I do think you should have finished it. Even if you just put 10 hours into it, chopped out the unfinished sections. There was really only 2 or 3 areas that were clearly unfinished, you should have just cut those out, chucked in a teleporter to get the player back on track. Then put some big ass shamblers in for a bit of a finale. Surely not more than 5-10 hours?
But yeah the level of detail is some areas was fantastic, the lighting fantastic though you do really need to play at night. The scripted sequences good. I like the variety in textures as well. It might seem slightly incoherent/inconsistent, but I liked it and who says a map should only feature ONE texture set.
Now that you've got the first 300 hours out of your system, you'll probably be able to do another map this big in 30 hours.
OTP... you only check your map in-game every 4-5 hours... wtf? lol. I'd be every 10 brushes as well haha you want to be satisfied as you map not spend 5 hours on something, then go in-game and discover you'd made it all too small or too dark.
I Was The One
#49 posted by Cocerello
on 2014/07/11 12:54:52
That said to only check the map in-game every 4-5 hours. But 4-5 hours was an exaggeration, every 1-2 hours is more like how i do it.
I mapped for years while checking every few brushes like you but it was a torture and got bored and tired of replaying the same parts over and over, apart from all the time lost in replaying so many times. Maps that would take a week took months that way, and some were left unfinished because of that. That is also because when you check so many times, you focus too on small details, and detail by detail. That consumes a lot of time.
What you say is true too, but you'll always change the room sooner or later, so why not wait a bit so you can check more things at once. Same with lighting and triggers. Check several at once so you save time.
It depends mostly of the mapping style: it is different if you go room by room, than going phase by phase (rough layout (i usually do this mostly by sketching on paper)-- brushwork -- detail brushwork -- lighting -- rest of entities (not necessarily in this order)).
I check the map after i complete one of the phases for a few connected rooms, or in a half of the map if it is about entities, that way there is enough new things to look at and check, i don't lose so much time, and there isn't a big backtrack if i have to redo a part. Of course i check it more and more as i get more and more into details and near completion.
I am currently very satisfied with the current method, as i can churn out maps quickly and every time i return to the old mapping method mapping becomes sluggish. I particularly hate when i have to tweak the lighting over and over, dozens of times to achieve a particular level of detail.
By the way,in here
there is lots of options to try related to speed in mapping.
#50 posted by killpixel
on 2014/07/25 18:43:37
@Spirit - Thanks :]
@Yhe1 - Not in the immediate future, but I'll make time for it.
@[Kona] - Glad you dug the map, and yeah, I wish I could finish it... this makes me sad, probably more than it should.
After stepping back and looking at it, I think this map does elaborate on aspects that are uncommon in Quake, making some parts somewhat unique (to Quake).
My next project will be rad though, just wait and see!
#51 posted by Mikko
on 2014/08/01 12:55:25
For some reason I can't get the pak file out of the zip; Windows gives me some error message. Anyone else getting this?
Check Post #40
#52 posted by Cocerello
on 2014/08/01 13:03:22
The link that is posted in the first post uses LZMA compression, which some people don't have.
Post 40 has a link for a file made with a more common compression method.
#53 posted by Mikko
on 2014/08/01 13:55:08
Ok thanks, it worked.
Anyway, the OP didn't say anything about FitzQuake, which I almost always use, so I went for DarkPlaces (which was recommended). Not really the biggest fan of DarkPlaces and I don't know if the demo I recorded even works (does it keep recording after you die or stop like in Fitz?). In any case, the last Shambler got me because I had no bullets at that point so I loaded an earlier save and tried to avoid him. I take it the map ends after you step into the portal below the platform with those two Ogres? Too bad you couldn't just put an ending trigger in that portal or something.
The finished areas looked good but DarkPlaces doesn't seem to do the map justice. I probably should have played in Fitz but was worried it wasn't supported. The map's gameplay was okay but clearly unpolished, and the traps felt a bit too random rather than trap-like. Too bad you spent so much time on a map that's still so unfinished. Maybe you can start a new map now without all the baggage.
Anyway, here's the demo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0khqhz3eio4aj8/mikkodark.zip
#54 posted by Doc Holliday on 2016/05/27 09:45:39
That's that's wrong...thanks Spirit
#55 posted by Doc Holliday on 2016/05/27 09:46:26
That's what's LOL ;)
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