|Posted by killpixel on 2014/07/03 01:58:58|
|Way Too Many Screenshots Trailer
Unfinished, Yet Released
Sadly, I'm releasing my first, and only, "real map" in an unfinished state. Because I simply lack the time, the probability that this map will never see completion is very high. I'm not fond of releasing unfinished stuff, and I very nearly chose not to. But, the thought of this thing dying in obscurity on my harddrive wasn't a pretty thought either. If this was near completion, I would just finish it. Horrifyingly, it still needs somewhere in the neighbourhood of one to two hundred hours of attention (for what I had in mind, anyway). Ain't nobody got time for that.
This map happened by accident. I wanted to see what it really took, at a technical/logistical level, to make a map. I laid down a few brushes and familiarized myself with the program. One thing led to another and soon enough I had 5 hours into the map. My thought then was, "well, it's not like I can just stop now." I then proceeded to tumble down the rabbit hole. 5 hours turned to 20 hours, 20 to 50, 50 to 100, 100 to 200, 200 to 300. I think this map has about 300 hours of my life in it. Knowing that and looking at the map, the appropriate response of any experienced mapper is "...how tha fuck?" The long hours are due to learning how to map, doing things wrong (like tons of brushes) and redoing them, iteration, brain farts and completely scrapping entire areas because they didn't make the grade. Plus, I like to compile the map and check it out every 10 brushes.
I released an earlier version of this on QuakeOne about a year ago. That would explain any deja vu you may be experiencing.
About The Map & Suggestions
This doesn't play like a Quake map. I never had the intention of making a Quake map, it just happened to be the game that was available. I say that so you don't get your hopes up or go in guns blazing only to find yourself at spawn over and over again. It plays like a less forgiving Doom3. In all honesty, gameplay was not on my radar for the first third of the map, I just wanted to make something pretty. There are some purists out there that don't believe in quick saving... well, good luck with that.
No single section is 100% complete. Some are close, others are empty walls lit by one bright light with one or two random enemies near by. Areas that have not yet been connected by geometry, or made for use later in the level, are tied together by teleporters.
Fuck. I wish I had the time to finish this thing.
Oh yeah. Play this in the dark, preferably with game music. I genuinely wouldn't bother trying to play this in a well lit environment. If you complain "it's too dark" I'll know you played it in the light...
Compatibility & Issues
Unfortunately, this map is a no-go for DirectQ (which is the engine I used exclusively when making this). Among other anomalies, a key entity (door) in a particular gag is invisible, totally destroying the surprise of the gag. The very beginning of map is broken in FTE, it doesn't like the spawn set up I've got going on. KPCN isn't very well play tested in anything other that DirectQ and Darkplaces. For overall best performance and compatibility, I would recommend Darkplaces.
I strongly suggest nearest texture filtering. Linear causes some artefacts by way of "smudging" in parts of the texture that should not be visible, including fullbrights in some cases. It also shows a lot of seems in some hacked up surfaces. And it's just ugly at this texture resolution.
Use texture packs at your own risk. Some textures are custom and will clash. One secret area relies on a fullbright button, which wasn't on a texture pack I tried (can't remember which one).
I've included the source for a couple reasons. First, for some comedic material. Really, there is some wacky shit going on. Remember, noob map. Second, if someone (or more) gets a wild hair and wants to complete it, well, I think that'd be just fine. Perhaps, even if several people just wanted to add a few rooms and neat ideas then hand it off to the next guy, that would be stellar. Just saying.
Damn, enough yapping, here's the download
Glad To See A New Mapper
#6 posted by Cocerello
on 2014/07/03 11:01:27
Going to play this eagerly.
I then proceeded to tumble down the rabbit hole. 5 hours turned to 20 hours, 20 to 50, 50 to 100, 100 to 200, 200 to 300.
Don't worry, that's common for the first maps. My first map, that made in 1997, took me many months. If i were to make it today, with a few hours i would have enough.
If you find mapping too much time consuming, i recommend you to try with speedmaps sessions. They are funnier to map and even if you go overboard with it, you won't spend too much time.
Plus, I like to compile the map and check it out every 10 brushes.
That's probably the biggest time consuming thing you did. And the one that makes you more bored with mapping, at least for me. Check it out no more than once per 4-5 hours and you will do it way better.
For learning how things work i recommend you to do a test map with squarish rooms with one test per room, linked by teleporters, so the test in one room won't interfere with the ones at the others. Compiles faster and you'll focus on those tests.
Try a bit of speedmapping, it may help you build up speed in making maps. Try different techniques, like blocking out gameplay (a lot of mappers do this) and then make prefab shapes to work with.
I'm sure you released an early form of this map before that I had played, or maybe I beta-tested it a long time ago. I will have another look.
#8 posted by Spirit
on 2014/07/03 11:18:26
How to release a map nitpicking:
Lowercase ALL files and directories.
Best usability is to name everything the same, directory, bsp but that's not that important.
You could have just copy'n'pasted the text you wrote on func into the readme, then the zip would be self contained.
From what I read here the map has no exit trigger? That's a huge shame and something that should definitely be mentioned in the readme. Coultn't you just add some random ugly teleporter somewhere?
Time to play!
#9 posted by Spirit
on 2014/07/03 11:43:23
WARNING: Couldn't load sound/equake/rumble.wav
OVerall a mixed bag for me. Fantastic setting and brushwork, great doors. Jump scares got old quickly, might have been more effective with 1/3 of monsters. Low ammo/health at the beginning was annoying. Some "dreams" were nice, others didn't work (weird girl in the closet?).
Cool Ideas There. Plenty Of Fun.
#10 posted by Cocerello
on 2014/07/03 14:02:14
Demo in nightmare. Missed one monster, i suppose an ambush in a corner i haven't visited.
Agree mostly with what Spirit said:
- It is a mix of different styles and rooms so it lacks a lot of coherence, even in the base parts. It is a map done for the fun and to learn, so i suppose thats why it is like that.
- Brushwork is a mix of 199x's style and more recent one. There is lots of nice things to look at and I loved particularly the start part, the corridor where the GK room is (that upper part that goes to the infinite), the parts where the huge cylinders are and many more. It loses quite a bit in the zones where there is no monsters, because you have time to look at every corner and detail.
- The layout of each part is good, and gives lots of options for good combats and secrets.
The ambushes where plenty fun and were way better thanks to the ambient of the map. They gave me plenty of ideas, as i am trying to replicate for Quake the combat in the Lisbeth part of Undying in some maps i have been mapping along this year. They lose a bit with time, but OK.
They would be better with less monsters, but i do think that half or one third of what you put is enough of a cut, not necessary to take out two thirds out.
The weird shambler encounters, i couldn't understand them, but where cool for a jump scare.
- Cool addition of sounds, well placed and chosen.
- Low health was a big issue at first, mainly because the player isn't used to the type of gameplay the map provides.
- That girl ... putting it plainly, surprised me.
Welcome To Func_, Killpixel.
#11 posted by Breezeep_
on 2014/07/03 15:38:00
shame you didn't finish the map. I'll play it for you.
I'm Having A Little Trouble Downloading With WinRAR
#12 posted by Breezeep_
on 2014/07/03 15:40:25
I get these errors: ! C:\Users\Justin\Desktop\kpcn2014.zip: Unknown method in kpcn2014\PAK0.pak
! C:\Users\Justin\Desktop\kpcn2014.zip: No files to extract
I can't get the PAK to extract properly.
Same for the contents of src.zip, so there goes me compiling it on my own ;~)
#14 posted by Spirit
on 2014/07/03 19:23:43
Works perfectly fine here, using 7-zip and QuakeForge's pak utility.
I noticed that apparently I had an older release in the "kpcn" directory and when I blindly copied the line from the readme, well, you know. So my demos above are for an old release... Sorry (that's what stupid people do when the packaging invites silly mistakes)! :(
#15 posted by Rick
on 2014/07/03 19:25:50
Using 7-Zip, I had no problems. However, after seeing people have problems here, I tried the built in Windows 7 unzip and it couldn't extract the pak file claiming an "unspecified error". I didn't try the src folder.
#16 posted by killpixel
on 2014/07/03 19:31:20
I really didn't expect to see demos. Very, very insightful. Some people play not at all how I anticipated.
One thing that's painfully obvious when seeing this is that the level was made for the level designer/artist, not the the player.
I used 7zip to pack. WinZip, for example is probably having issues with the LZMA algorithm. Sorry 'bout that, 7zip will work.
I've got more to comment on, but I have a day of errands ahead of me, I'll get back later.
One thing I will say: Take it slow, as tedious as it surely will be. The map is very scripted, which as a player I dislike. But damn, as a mapper? I think it's neat.
#17 posted by Spirit
on 2014/07/03 19:33:00
The scripting is great, just a bit too much for me. Spread out over a whole episode, the same amount would work fantastically (HINTHINTHINT!).
#18 posted by killpixel
on 2014/07/03 19:35:40
I'm not sure how to view your demos?
I can open it them with Dzip, but I'm not sure I should be doing that...
What engine did you use?
#19 posted by Spirit
on 2014/07/03 20:19:36
Sorry, I used reQuiem which detected the map to break protocol 15 and chose to use protocol 10002.
Here is a beta http://chunk.io/f/d0bf59d08b5c4d8692ad30df8b7e9bb6
, might require zlib1.dll from here: http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/downlinks/zlib-bin-zip.php
(if so, please tell me). You can launch the demos straight from the dz with the demo browser then: Singleplayer -> Demos -> type "kpcn" to find them. Enter to play, cursor keys for controls.
Alternatively you can use bjp/aguirre's glquake.
Reqiems .dz Playback Is A Nice Feature!
#20 posted by mfx
on 2014/07/03 21:22:23
This Map Is Exactly What The Screenshots Show
A bunch of dark corridors with a lot of detail, and hardly any vertical gameplay. Everyone who complained about Ruined Nation being too much like Doom 3 should play this and reevaluate.
Some rooms looked awesome, with interesting texture choices, a LOT of meticulous detail, and moody lighting. But I've known that ever since I saw the first screenshots over a year ago, and I was looking forward to PLAYING the map. And it turns out it's a flat, non-intersecting layout with barely any sense of progression
? C'mon son!
The "nightmare" schtick was pretty cool at first, but eventually became overused and annoying. If one doorway in the map ends up collapsing into darkness, it's okay. If this happens nearly every time... I just end up expecting something to happen at every turn and there's no surprise at all. (Mental note to self: seriously rethink the plans for the E4 tribute...) And seriously... that one thing
you did was over the line. You know which one.
I'm sorry if I sounded harsh but that's just what I thought. Better luck next time and please don't put 300 hours in it.
Great Bunch Of Maps!!
#22 posted by mechtech
on 2014/07/04 17:08:49
"Play this in the dark"
The lighting is too dark for me. I my opinion all that detail gets lost. I relight with tyrutils -range .7 -dist .6 -extra4. The global relight made some parts over bright. Screen shot of before and after.
You could get an entire map out of just that texture set. Looks awesome. What wad file is it?
"I think this map has about 300 hours of my life in it." That's Quake mapping for you. It's not really the map, it's 300 hours of learning. The thing with Quake is it's deceptive nature. It can bury you with possibilities.
Cartographer's Nightmare while not a complete and coherent map in itself is full a great pieces. Good prefab material, good reference for future maps.
#23 posted by mechtech
on 2014/07/04 17:26:28
#24 posted by Orl
on 2014/07/04 18:55:21
What a ride! I've never been so on the edge of my seat, just anticipating what sort of trap was going to happen next. The lighting and design was very dark and claustrophobic, which really added to the tense situation.
Obviously I would get tired quickly of a map pack that had trap after trap, but in this case it was a refreshing change of pace, and I really enjoyed it, despite the map itself not being finished.
First run in hard mode demo, recorded in enhanced glquake, protocol 10000:
Fantastic job KillPixel :)
Anyone Have A Workaround For The Winrar Error?
#25 posted by Breezeep_
on 2014/07/04 21:25:49
#26 posted by killpixel
on 2014/07/04 21:47:02
@mfx - thanks for the demo, you didn't play as I thought most people would. Not to fault you of course, the player is always right. Impressive that you survived aggroing 5 rooms and tripping 3 traps at once :P
@Cocerello - I'm glad there was at least something in there you could take away from it. This map is just bunch of ideas n' consecutive order. I wanted the final version to have about 300 enemies :]
@onetruepurple - I'm sorry if I sounded harsh but that's just what I thought.
Hehe, not harsh, I agree with everything said, and then some. My own critique is not nearly as charitable as yours and could quite possibly make a full grown man cry. I rather enjoyed your play through. I feel that you got "lost", fell down the elevator shaft and such on purpose.
As any sort of playable map, KPCN falls far short of anything of quality. For what it is though, a sketchpad of sorts where various doodles are strung together to resemble some sort of coherent shape, it has some interesting things.
For the record, I love Doom3... if that's not already obvious after playing this.
@mechtech - Those textures should be in kpcn.wad, in the src folder. Feel free to pick KPCN apart and take something of use, make something cool!
@Orl - Glad you liked it! This plays very differnently than vanilla quake. Depending on what you're looking for, that can be a good or bad thing. However, you missed the blue door and last 3rd of the level! Hehe, I thought it was pretty clearly marked. Maybe the fact that it doesn't use a standard door texture led to some confusion... (HINT: When you grab the blue key, a window opens revealing the door to go to).
#27 posted by killpixel
on 2014/07/04 21:47:39
7-zip will do ya
#28 posted by mechtech
on 2014/07/04 23:19:06
Thanks for the textures. Will start a map now. Plan is to make a map I can complete, use ID1 progs.dat and KEEP IT SIMPLE hehe. oh and no looking up things
Not bad. I do have an early version of this. Not sure how much has changed since I haven't played it in a while.
I made a demo, dunno what use it is for you since the gameplay is so linear.
#30 posted by DaZ
on 2014/07/05 00:57:35
Sorry I forgot to record a demo but my blind play through is on my twitch vod http://www.twitch.tv/tddaz/b/544467306
you will need to fastforward to near the end as it was the last thing I played on the stream.
I didn't enjoy the game play on the level much at all. Just when I was settling into a groove of killing enemies something crazy and annoying would happen to remove me from the environment.
The level was quite pretty to look at but it was very flat with barely any z axis to work with. I felt like I was constantly bashing my head against the ceiling when I jumped.
You can get my entire stream of thought in the twitch vod :)
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