Func_Msgboard has a rich history of intellectualism and elitism which anyone should admire. I certainly do.

And elitism MATTERS. Elitism is the push to do things RIGHT. To do things perfect. To tune your maps, to balance the gameplay, to use monster capabilities as chess-pieces. To get every minor detail immaculately immersed.

At the same time, it is not right when unconstructive criticism and childishness rule the day.

That kind of crap is --- from my perception -- is in part why distrans walked from this board in 2008 and in part why aguirRe hung up his hat from this board.

And a couple of people in this thread have tried to portray this as some sort of conflict of me and Spirit which is silly. I have the utmost respect for Spirit and I believe it runs both ways [Spirit sent me a book last year, I'll never forget that although he did not have to do so to gain my utmost respect ... he earned that long, long ago.]

My point in this thread is that you can be a lowest common denominator member of this 15-year-old game community or rise above that.

Being a negativistic, premature and unfair skunkbag is easy. Just throw stones at anyone who makes "things" while safely "not making things" is the perfect Monday morning quarterback refuge of safety. 

wtf is that 

That kind of crap is --- from my perception -- is in part why distrans walked from this board in 2008 and in part why aguirRe hung up his hat from this board.

You are perfectly correct... however I guess both gentlemen have their own reasons we cannot express for them.. 

...Can someone remember me the original title of this thread? I seem to remember a perfectly equilibrate and adult vibe to it....


"Just throw stones at anyone who makes "things" while safely "not making things" is the perfect Monday morning quarterback refuge of safety."

As stated above, this means, that me, not being a mapper have no right whatsoever to post anything here, right?

And Ricky, before you start the "And he's being advocative because it feels good to voice your opinion about other peoples shit" loop, please try to understand that I never meant to do that and that my rather rough comment above, was made in a provocative way as if to say "I did not say anything up to now, because I KNOW it would not be constructive criticism, but I feel this way about this project".

Whatever behaviour is ruled out to be "unconstructive criticism and childishness" can safely be ignored by adult thinking people without a blink, I think.

Ah, and please, people, shut down the Film thread. I don't see anyone director here, who the f**k are you to express any kind of idea? 

Im sorry about that btw. I was tripping balls that day, of on some other thread about not giving an 'f' anymore. 

"Just throw stones at anyone who makes "things" while safely "not making things" is the perfect Monday morning quarterback refuge of safety."

As stated above, this means, that me, not being a mapper have no right whatsoever to post anything here, right?

thanks for pointing that out. i hate that attitude. why should someone's opinion be invalid because they don't map? if they're playing a map, then they are the very audience the map was made for. 

Fair or not fair, the negative eruption of swamp people level of hostility in this thread proved everything I set out to illustrate in this thread littered with vicious muck.

I think the Remake Quake guys should relocate the emphasis of their development to Moddb.com. I was rather pissed when distrans got mocked back '08 for the SpaceHulk map contest, I can't speak for aguirRe and I don't claim to know whatever problems Trinca had.

But I do know that negativism and downer attitudes are only health up to a point and beyond that, it is just a swamp pit. 

I do want to add, I have viewed none of your comments as anything less than a candid discussion of facts. If during the course of this thread I didn't acknowledge your replies enough, it was due to the volume of other posts I was responding to. You are A++ in my book.

And Ricky, although you do post in purple I was never referring to you but rather a different purple guy who posted stupid, idiotic mean-spirited cavemen crap elsewhere.

And since I'm at it, Necros ... no I don't think it takes an active mapper to have constructive criticism whatsoever.

And likely my final comment in this thread -- being not so naive at the moment to acknowledge that some unforeseen comment could draw me back -- but I started this thread to some degree because I was simply in disbelief reading some anti-modding comments for a game I believe is still absolutely worthy of experimentation. 

This thread sucks. 

I always see it on a map and think it looks like a Bong. 

I just re-read http://spawnhost.wordpress.com/2011/02/06/cant-argue-about-taste-at-least/ and still do not get how my point was missed. Is it really not clear how eg Nehahra and RMQ differ when looking at id1 Quake as "the game"? 

Is a bunch of completely new levels, whereas RMQ is a bunch of remakes of original ID levels. Am I right? Do I win? They both have custom progs and monsters. 

I started this thread to some degree because I was simply in disbelief reading some anti-modding comments for a game I believe is still absolutely worthy of experimentation.

Please tell me where can I find those "anti-modding comments", because I seriously cannot see any anywhere.

Not enjoying one PC (RMQ) out of dozens is not an anti-modding attitude. 

Well as far as I can tell the biggest difference is that Nehahra was made by "established personalities" whereas RMQ --- isn't. Now there may be a bit of paranoia in that, or it may be touching on something that's been bubbling under the surface. You decide, I'm just throwing something in the air to see where it comes down. Not a big deal anyway.

...oh, and didn't Nehahra require it's own engine too...? 

Sorry, my question was not clear. I meant to ask about the resulting game/play itself. Purely objective and on a technical (!) level. How much or what aspects did they change compared to id1. It is irrelevant how/if those changes fit the quake universe as perceived by any of us individuals.


For the record if nehahra was released now I would be quite critical. I don't really like a lot of it, especially not the earlier levels. 

the earlier city levels are a slog to get through, in order to get to the good shit. 

e1m6rq was forge city 3. grind cores and sacred trinities await :)


(not that i think either forge city or e1m6rq were bad, just a little more niche than the usual) 

Ijed didn't establish his personality with Warp? 

 

This is the new General Abuse thread. Haha. 

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Top+Competitive+Eaters+Face+Off+Corned+Beef+-90xok7pty_l.jpg 

isn't quaddicted for final releases only?

Also, I don't support installing custom engines in quakeinjector, just game content. 

ijed impressed the hell out of me, and (I would imagine) most players with Warp Spasm. But making an amazing map set like that =/= the old "established mapper" thing, or at least he didn't pick that. I cringe a bit (but tingle a lot - lol) when I imagine all the work he's done post-warp spasm.
the point is ijed did not use whatever respect he'd acquired by pushing the limits of Q1SP to create, sustain, or join some clique... instead he went and mapped more.
And for the record, who the fuck has a problem with MAPPING MORE? 

Yep, Ijed is very much a guy who goes mapping.

When we started out, it was very inspiring to me to watch him mapping - it started as an agreement to pass maps back and forth, pretty much.

Half of my meager mapping skill was acquired trying to get as good as he is. Roughest school you can go through.

But I think mh meant more the old mapper clique thing, as Tronyn put it. Peer groups. And there are a couple people on the team who fit that description even less.

There was an awful lot of "swamp people behaviour". So there must be some stakes involved. I mean, the last demo was pretty objectively not "sucky" by any measurement. People do this in their spare time without getting paid for, and the fact that it still works (after almost 4 years) and that there are releases is almost by definition not "sucky". That's just an astonishing thing to say. I can accept "I don't like it, it's not my cup of tea". No problem. But "all of it sucks kthx" or "its coders are just copying old stuff" is just astonishing. I don't get the slur against the coders, totally not. Is this some stone-age mappers vs. coders thing at work? Some of our coders are outstanding people. All of them, actually.

Anyone want a little more ijed in them? :-E