Of course I ran it in it's own seperate dir! 

Scragbait, yes, trickjumping is the intended method. Dunno if you can actually do anything useful with the quad once you've got it, but hey :P 

LTH saw demo or not? :p
i bunny pretty nice to quad 

Lots of cool stuff in this release: the glass, the new base baddies, the vegetation, the weapon models, etc. It still felt a bit short, though. I'd love to see a more expansive follow-up ;)

Two other things: the slime/sewer area seemed oddly placed - you went up from the first area to reach it - and the red nailgun guy at the end would always shoot the floor if I stood still. Maybe it was monster placement or a QC bug, I don't know.

BTW, a map in this style + Quoth 2 would positively rock!

Great job! 

I found it a bit confusing in the same way as JPL's Slime Refinery Complex. It's the amount of corridors, and the amount of niches that could be doors but aren't, which is probably in the textures.

The ammo closets were a good idea, really nice idea actually, but they could have been better marked. They looked just like all the other doors.

Reminded me a lot of the Quake2 jail levels, that one room with the walkway and a door on one end, a lift on the other seemed like a deja vu. The fiend cells also. It would have been nice if there had been items or secrets in the cells, anything. A reward.

At first I didn't kill the enforcer with the key, which confused me even more... I guess if you have monsters dropping keys, they should be minor bosses and they should be in the main trail of combat, or in a special location (the lab would have been the right place for this.) Why not give a message to the extent of "a monster has the key"?

The fiend on the examination table was a nice touch and sufficiently explained their presence, you could have expanded on this theme - larger cell blocks with different monsters.

The grunt/enforcer variations: They're good enough I guess. It's rather hard to imagine a base map without Quoth defenders/rocketeers or Hipnotic centroids nowadays, but I'm of course spoiled.

One thing I'd like to see in any base map would be civilians, like in Starcraft, that aren't armed and just give the impression that research is being done there. You would just have the option of mercilessly slaughtering them, or leaving them alone. That's something that Quake lacks. I think other FPS games have this.

I would have liked some more horde combat, too. There were traces of it like just after activating the two consoles, when the third door opens and monsters come out. I was expecting something more like "oh shit, now it's starting for real!" but the "army" was rather small. That would've been a good spot for a few dogs from all directions. What happened to dogs? I thought even the last man on earth would have a mutt by his side :-D dogs plz.

In general, more monsters would have been nice, in larger groups. Also, more 3D combat, like some enforcers on crates, others on a walkway, while dogs and grunts come at you from all sides.

A side effect of the limited monster choice was a lack of infighting, the lightsaber guys and normal enforcers just don't want to kill each other :-/

The SNG enforcer had a little too many HP compared to his comrades, much like early Quoth monsters.

Nice map though, glass didn't work for me, I liked the darkness in some areas, some rooms could have been taller/wider, no buttons? I must have shot most computers, would be nice if something happened... some areas, like the lab, the command centers and the final area were nice. The outside walkway, too.

I would have liked to see hydroponics and the main hangar...

Well. To sum it up, harder and more varied gameplay plz, and a clear route to follow with some optional sightseeing. Could.bsp does this rather nicely. Many people like nonlinear maps though.

The map could have used more playtesting. 

One thing I'd like to see in any base map would be civilians, like in Starcraft, that aren't armed and just give the impression that research is being done there. You would just have the option of mercilessly slaughtering them, or leaving them alone. That's something that Quake lacks. I think other FPS games have this.

Xmen TC had this a little bit -- guys with clipboards looking at computers that you could kill. 

I found it a bit confusing in the same way as JPL's Slime Refinery Complex. It's the amount of corridors, and the amount of niches that could be doors but aren't, which is probably in the textures.

Well, if you don't like corridors and complex interconnect: you will not like my next project :P 

pretty solid but unremarkable stuff. A few nice otuches as people have mentioned icnluding glass and new monsters and plantation.

Colored lighting is good but I played with and without and without could have definitely used better lighting. I know its meant to be played with colored lighting but a little more effort should have been made so that it looked good in regular quake too. 

I like SRC after getting to know it, but in the beginning it was confusing to me. The early Bobs were rather tough, too and stifled the flow a bit.

But I like it as a map, I didn't mean to put it down. It was a map that needed to grow on me for some time. ;-)

The problem with recognizing doors has to do with custom textures, in idbase you immediately know a door when you see one, in rubicon not always, because not many maps use it. I didn't play Doom3 and thus the textures weren't immediately familiar.

That's all, no offense or shit talk intended. 

I didn't took your comments as offense: don't worry :) I admit easily that be aware of what is a door, or not, is not that obvious in SRC, while there are colored trims around the SK/GK doors... I just took these comments as a "don't do that again" for next maps... but concerning interconnects, you will not be deceived... ;) 

Looking forward to it :-) 

Can one exit from Backwards Compatible into Forwards Compatible? 

They use a different codebase. the ond one doesn't have the code that makes they key work (both the throw and the keep after use), and the new code doesn't have the yellow nail enforcers. There's also the issue of making the trigger_changelevel point correctly, but that's minor...

So I finally tried it. Died more than a few times, but eventually got to the end. Didn't get the secret, but was able to see what it was. The fiends were a fairly major battle. I think that the point could've been made with just 6 fiends instead of 10 (I played skill 1), and ammo is very tight to take them all down, even for a packrat like me.

End boss was a welcome reminder of his old maps, even though it was very tough, until I realised that you could stand in a place where you couldn't be shot, but could kill it easily. 600 health is a bit much for it, though, but as there's only one, it's not too bad. Was a little disappointing to not see the nail enforcers return, though... 

nice map. Old-school mood and archicecture. Also the nonlinear layout was quite nice -- I think that may also qualify as old-school, becuase I don't remember playing a lot of newer maps that were this open.

The finale was fairly easy compared to the previous map I played (with 4 SNG guys in a big room.)

Nice mix of custom bad guys. 

i'm adding alpha support to fitzquake, and I can't tell what the "correct" appearance is supposed to be -- is the glass supposed to have lightmaps/shading, or is it supposed to be fullbright?

Also, you have one object you set to alpha -1 in there... what is the -1 intended to do? 

-1 and possibly all negative values are meant to make the object entirely invisible and unrendered. 0 has to default to 1 so that all the entities are visible by default. I reckon that the more intuitive way of doing it would have been to just flip the direction of the alpha scale, so .alpha stores (1 - rendering_alpha), with 0 being fully visible and 1 being fully transparent. But the engines have a standard now, and this is it. 

...and 0 = fully transparent and 1 = opaque, for the key ".alpha". I am pleased to hear that FitzQuake will be supporting alpha for brushmodels!! I might actually put some glass into my maps now ;-P
Also, will you be able to have transparent enemies? I thought this would be cool - using progs hacks I could have a extra-tough semi-transparent glowing scrag for example.... You could implement ghosts into levels n' stuff! 

Finally played. I liked it a lot. Very pleasant on the eyes. Thanks. 

Finally played. I liked it a lot. Very pleasant on the eyes. Thanks. 

Transparent enemies will only appear transparent in engines that support it...

But assuming it does, just set "alpha" to some number below 1 (start with 0.5 and see how that looks) to make the monster transparent. Some models will look better than others. Same trick also works on items, if you want to be mean... 

...I was kinda meaning "Will you able to have transparent enemies" - in FitzQuake now?
Also, for engines that do support alpha, isnt it ".alpha", with a stop? I heard this somewhere I think. Anyone who knows care to confirm, so we're all on the same page here?
(Ha: "Ricky - go and check the documentation")
:-P 

And as I remember if alpha can be applied to func's then it can be applied to entities as well, including monsters. I did it in my first map with a Vore that teleports in, smashing a wooden structure.

Problem was I had Gaunts in the map who can teleport to close with the player to any available point, with info_teleport_destination being top of their list. A messed with it a bit until the bbox of the Vore would smash the structure but the smaller Gaunt's wouldn't.

Kept the combat interesting though, since the player couldn't just leave all the enemies behind. 

Keyvalues of an entity in a map correspond to fields of entities in the qc code. When referred to in the qc, it's called .alpha to make it clear that it is a field. The usage would go something like self.alpha = 0.5; for making the current entity called "self" have an alpha value of 0.5. But for the map keyvalue, you would simply use
"alpha" "0.5"

The same could be said of any of the standard fields, targetname is thought of as .targetname within the qc code, but as a keyvalue is just "targetname". alpha is probably mentioned as .alpha all the time because it's usually discussed by coders, who tend to think of it in terms of the qc definition. It also helps to make it clear that you are specifically talking about the per-entity field .alpha, and not the idea of alpha in a more general sense, where it can be applied to particle effects, water rendering, alpha channels on sprites, etc... 

so I could have:

"classname" "whatever"
"alpha" "0.3"

I mean I wouldnt have a clue about alpha on particles/sprites or anything like that. I know how to set transparent water in a level using Quoths info_command/trigger_command:

"classname" "info_command"
"targetname" "whatever"
"message" "r_wateralpha 0.4"

...would use the command "r_wateralpha 0.4" when triggered.

I just like the idea of having ghosts:

"classname" "monster_dog"
"effects" "4"
"alpha" "0.4"
"armortype" "1"
"armorvalue" "280"

This would give a dog which was transparent (ghostly), glowed orange (very ghostly) and was pretty tough for a dog.

And you could add the "alpha" key to any bmodels including doors, plats and trains?

:D 

yeah, the plan is for alpha support in the next version of fitzquake. As for what it works on, theoretically it can be applied to any entity in the map file, with the exception of worldspawn. In practice, some engines only support it on some types of entity.

For example, I haven't added support to sprites yet, or static entities, or sky-textured polygons.