One Would Hope...
100% secrets would be standard :)
All Of A Sudden, The Day Got Worse.
Didn't the last Shambler die on Shub Niggurat's pit walkway?
One nasty, chatty specimen must've escaped its doom...
Gotta load my SNG...
Nice map Ankh had very fun time... :)
The first run hard demo already sent to your email :)
Nice map. I did not like the base monsters either. Liked the breaking things (and still not like non-bleeding breakables). Found 4/5 secrets. Some tiny bugs (black cut before the mechanic push things, some bad texture somewhere else). Transparent water :( .
Joequake derivates (I guess) give a message: WARNING: Couldn't load sound/progs/glass.mdl
And there seems to be a walkmonster in wall (or however you call it).
Still liking the map though. :P
Proquake Had That Wrning Too
I'd say this was a pretty successful experiment that helps highlight some of the great gameplay you can get from Quoth. The missing glass model seems to be tied to the window on the roof, which I never could get to. A proper remake is now in order ;)
The missing glass model seems to be tied to the window on the roof, which I never could get to.
Tell me you people aren't serious. Who got 4/5 secrets too, oh the shame!! They're the same secrets as the stock map!! (and quite nice secrets too)
I Got 4/5 Secrets Too
its seems i missed the jump up secret
Depends On Your Definition Of Success...
I think it was a success in demonstrating how excessively difficult the Quoth monsters are, and how to use them badly...
It's hard to know where the faults with this map start and the faults with Quoth end. So instead, I'll focus on the parts that don't suck too much:
The 5th secret that no-one here seems to have spotted is moved to a nice location, to the point where it actually feels "secret" again.
The quad that is on the top of the level is still a quad. Well done for resisting the temptation to turn it into a trinity just because it exists...
The boss combat at the end is an interesting idea, and mostly works. However, the boss is shootable from well outside of its range., which means that it can end up being a bit easier than anticipated.
Apart from that, it feels like a pretty standard "quoth inside" offering from func_...
Couldn't basically all your base enemies be replaced by death guards on this map?
I don't object to base monsters... I don't even object to base monsters in non-base settings... I just object to the base monsters that Quoth adds...
Map got me rememberin stuff ...fun level! I extracted the glass.mdl from quoth's pak and stuck it in a sound/progs folder and got a funny reply in Fitzquake.
Heh - pissed now, made a demo last week, s00ry totally forgot to post it. Skill 3 very funny jumped into hole vermis died in at end and perished. OOps! Very fun gameplay, like the original but the re-hash was good fun. Very wel positioned monsters throughout. Good on skill 3.
Great adaptation. I absolutely loved it ;>
The breakables and smash entries are jaw dropping, and the use of quoth and stock monsters is great imho. The ending(s) too. Thanks.
Incisive commentary there.
Big thanks for the demos. They were very interesting to watch. Most players managed well to get through the map in one piece. Thank you for the comments also.
I have set up the gameplay to be tough but as the demos show it is still manageable on first go. I always try to set up the monsters in places that favour them. I must say I love quoth base monsters they are pretty equal to the player if set up right. I didn't change the health supply comparing to the original but I think there was trice as much armour and everybody knows the secrets already. Now I think that I could have hidden at least 2 more of them in a different way, it would make the map more interesting.
Lardarse why do you say the monsters were used badly?
No one mentioned infighting but I found it very interesting sometimes. Quoth monsters make it happen more often than original I think. Or maybe the increased number of monster types rises the chance. The more interesting were eddie vs eddie, eddie vs polyp, eddie vs fiend, vermis vs wizard and bob vs pyro.
To do one for RemakeQuake?
It's great that you ask and I appreciate it. Unfortunately I don't have the time for making full maps any more. Making brushwork always takes too much time for me.
I'm also not sure that I will like all the gameplay enhancements you described in the remake quake thread.
I finally found time to play the Quot-ish version of e1m5 "Gloom Keep"...
Globally what others said: fun level with "brand new" gameplay... Well, good idea you had there: keep it up !!
Blast From The Past
Having played Quoth recently and loving the new style of the first maps (e1m1,e1m2) I saw your title about e1m5 (which is one of my favourites) and thought lets have a blast!
I played the map on skill 0, 1 and found the use of quoth monsters to be excessive compared to the original encounters. The first thing that annoyed me was I was in combat as soon as I started the map! I know it was only one of those annoying spider creatures but straight after that an enforcer with grenades came out the door and went crazy. I know the original is alot easier on the start, you get knights and easy one's.
The one thing that E1M5 shines for is multiple paths, the fact you can pick and choose how you go through the level with converging points that link up together when needed. The first thing I did was run round the side of the building and hit a locked door. I know this is a remake but locking that door is removing choice. There is no need for it, the original worked really well with that option.
One thing that does really shine with this map is the destructable sections of walls. It was strange that there were closet monsters tucked behind them but hey, its the quake universe! There were plenty of moments I was fighting AI and a pillar would blow up adding to the fun of the encounter.
After seeing what the Quoth team did to the original e1m1/m2 maps with architecture I was really hoping there was going to an extra spin on more detail and making the place feel more impressive. Sadly this did not happen and I think this is a missed opportunity for creativity. I know there was a new section added to the front of the map (not sure how you get there without noclip) but that is just a copy of E1M7 which already exists.
I do not think the encounters play very well together. The start of the map is grunts with grenades, followed by grunts with rockets and then the metal eddies. It would of been better to start with gradual AI like plain old grunts or knights. Because you started so high with AI types you ended up just using eddies everywhere and the combat just got boring as there was no peak or intensity.
One thing the original map did well for combat was in your face stuff with fiends bouncing off walls and ogres popping out of closets forcing the player backwards or around in circles. I am not sure why when people make quoth maps they have to use only quoth creatures, it would of been better to mix the types up.
Overall I enjoyed playing the map at the two lower skill levels and just wished the architecture style has been updated to suit the new quoth style better.
Hey sock. Thanks for your review. I think that I have closed up the door to the right because it is a dangerous dead end. I think it also was in the original e1m5 back in the old days because you could meat some nasty fiends there being equipped with the shotgun only.
You can get to the e1m7 part by simply following the usual route to the end of e1m5.
I didn't make an brushwork/texture revamp because it would take much more time and I also like setting up gameplay much better than working on brushwork.
I think that you are right about the problem with levels being too difficult. I like to go back to older maps more often because they are easier to play. On the other hand many of the id maps are not to be underestimated on hard skill.