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Remake Quake Tedious Beef Thread.
This thread is more for fun that anything else. There a conservative streak in me, but a radical streak too. I appreciate both sides of the coin.

That being said, although I do not find Spirit's archiving limits unreasonable, I do find some of the objections to the body of work in Remake Quake totally unreasonable.

Some people criticize Remake Quake as not being "Quake" enough and cry about it.

My personal opinion is that aside from Negke --- who I believe is an especially unique enigma unmatched in his unconventional and perfectionist style --- that the 1,376 id1 maps at Quaddicted adequately cover everything of substance that is ever gonna be done with id1 Quake.

I think Remake Quake is doing exactly the kind of thing that Carmack envisioned when he open-sourced damn near all of Quake: experimentation and risky creativity.

Seriously, aside from a puzzle and a grappling hook [Oh noes ... 3D navigations!! OMG ... ] and a vial here and there Remake Quake is Quake to the core. Just with more imagination.

It doesn't have any of Mr. Fribble's derided blinking T-Shirts or any silly bling. Instead it has awesome sleeping Shamblers.

In the words of the sometimes objectionable, and yet immortally wise and always appreciated for he who is/was/continues-to-be, Shambler ...

Discuss. Preferably without references to bees. ;)
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@Necros/JPL/the Silent/Ricky_AwesomeMaps_T23 
Fair or not fair, the negative eruption of swamp people level of hostility in this thread proved everything I set out to illustrate in this thread littered with vicious muck.

I think the Remake Quake guys should relocate the emphasis of their development to I was rather pissed when distrans got mocked back '08 for the SpaceHulk map contest, I can't speak for aguirRe and I don't claim to know whatever problems Trinca had.

But I do know that negativism and downer attitudes are only health up to a point and beyond that, it is just a swamp pit. 
The Silent 
I do want to add, I have viewed none of your comments as anything less than a candid discussion of facts. If during the course of this thread I didn't acknowledge your replies enough, it was due to the volume of other posts I was responding to. You are A++ in my book.

And Ricky, although you do post in purple I was never referring to you but rather a different purple guy who posted stupid, idiotic mean-spirited cavemen crap elsewhere.

And since I'm at it, Necros ... no I don't think it takes an active mapper to have constructive criticism whatsoever.

And likely my final comment in this thread -- being not so naive at the moment to acknowledge that some unforeseen comment could draw me back -- but I started this thread to some degree because I was simply in disbelief reading some anti-modding comments for a game I believe is still absolutely worthy of experimentation. 
This thread sucks. 
Isn't Norway A Strange Shape 
I always see it on a map and think it looks like a Bong. 
Now Look At Scandinavia 
I just re-read and still do not get how my point was missed. Is it really not clear how eg Nehahra and RMQ differ when looking at id1 Quake as "the game"? 
Is a bunch of completely new levels, whereas RMQ is a bunch of remakes of original ID levels. Am I right? Do I win? They both have custom progs and monsters. 
I started this thread to some degree because I was simply in disbelief reading some anti-modding comments for a game I believe is still absolutely worthy of experimentation.

Please tell me where can I find those "anti-modding comments", because I seriously cannot see any anywhere.

Not enjoying one PC (RMQ) out of dozens is not an anti-modding attitude. 
Well as far as I can tell the biggest difference is that Nehahra was made by "established personalities" whereas RMQ --- isn't. Now there may be a bit of paranoia in that, or it may be touching on something that's been bubbling under the surface. You decide, I'm just throwing something in the air to see where it comes down. Not a big deal anyway.

...oh, and didn't Nehahra require it's own engine too...? 
Leave The Rage Elsewhere Please 
Sorry, my question was not clear. I meant to ask about the resulting game/play itself. Purely objective and on a technical (!) level. How much or what aspects did they change compared to id1. It is irrelevant how/if those changes fit the quake universe as perceived by any of us individuals.

For the record if nehahra was released now I would be quite critical. I don't really like a lot of it, especially not the earlier levels. 
I Was Just Thinking About That The Other Day 
the earlier city levels are a slog to get through, in order to get to the good shit. 
There You Go 
e1m6rq was forge city 3. grind cores and sacred trinities await :)

(not that i think either forge city or e1m6rq were bad, just a little more niche than the usual) 
Ijed didn't establish his personality with Warp? 
This is the new General Abuse thread. Haha. 
Beef Abuse Thread 
isn't quaddicted for final releases only?

Also, I don't support installing custom engines in quakeinjector, just game content. 
Re: Ijed's "name" 
ijed impressed the hell out of me, and (I would imagine) most players with Warp Spasm. But making an amazing map set like that =/= the old "established mapper" thing, or at least he didn't pick that. I cringe a bit (but tingle a lot - lol) when I imagine all the work he's done post-warp spasm.
the point is ijed did not use whatever respect he'd acquired by pushing the limits of Q1SP to create, sustain, or join some clique... instead he went and mapped more.
And for the record, who the fuck has a problem with MAPPING MORE? 
Yep, Ijed is very much a guy who goes mapping.

When we started out, it was very inspiring to me to watch him mapping - it started as an agreement to pass maps back and forth, pretty much.

Half of my meager mapping skill was acquired trying to get as good as he is. Roughest school you can go through.

But I think mh meant more the old mapper clique thing, as Tronyn put it. Peer groups. And there are a couple people on the team who fit that description even less.

There was an awful lot of "swamp people behaviour". So there must be some stakes involved. I mean, the last demo was pretty objectively not "sucky" by any measurement. People do this in their spare time without getting paid for, and the fact that it still works (after almost 4 years) and that there are releases is almost by definition not "sucky". That's just an astonishing thing to say. I can accept "I don't like it, it's not my cup of tea". No problem. But "all of it sucks kthx" or "its coders are just copying old stuff" is just astonishing. I don't get the slur against the coders, totally not. Is this some stone-age mappers vs. coders thing at work? Some of our coders are outstanding people. All of them, actually.

Anyone want a little more ijed in them? :-E 
Form A Queue 
From The Essence Thread: 
#103 posted by gb [] on 2012/02/05 11:47:28
Actually some people just like to troll. The reasons are often very obvious, too - personal beef.

Okay name and shame: WHO is trolling in the context of RMQ / Quake due to "personal beef"??

I'm quite interested because although I've skimmed over lots of argumentative posts, I haven't seen anything that indicates there is anything personal going on aside from general disagreements about what is valid criticism etc etc??

Obviously there has been good beef on #func in the past, particularly with, say, Scampie or Trinca, but I didn't think anything was going on with RMQ?? 
It's Not Rocket Science 
Posts starting with "LOL" aren't really "argumentative". onetruepurple is an ex-team member and I assume his trolling has something to do with beef from the past; I can't see any other good reason for posts such as that one.

Spirit has trolled RMQ threads now and again, as well. I assume there is personal beef because of my accusing him of censorship some time ago.

Neither of that is terribly excessive, but it probably qualifies as personal beef.

Is this news to anyone? 
Hm, I just searched through 5-6 RMQ threads here at func and only saw minor trolling from me, usually following something that asked for it.

As long as it is called what it is called I will care and be vocal about it. I stopped giving actual feedback since it was a fruitless undertaking. I do not want people getting the impression that this has anything to do with the game Quake apart from using assets and code. Especially not that it is a updated better Quake or anything like that. The name is the issue. Otherwise I'd just ignore it (oh wait, I would troll instead).

You guys seem to have a lot of personal beef against the menagerie of fairytale fuckwits here at func though? I remember 
I Reckon 
its a very touchy subject in general. nobody wants someone taking a shit on the elder god shrine. Come on, you know what i mean.

Otp seems to have a personal crusade... I'm still in the dark as to why he left. But then, i'm never on irc.

Projects don't expose themselves to this level of interaction during development, and the main thing a project needs at the start is positvity. But that's our problem. Feedback is never fruitless - you jusr have to wait until the next picking season (there's so much we want to, we have to be very feature selctive).

Again, we chose beef. Aka feedback. When it gets a bit too self intitled or insulting then we'll probably answer back in kind - we're only human. 
I can't speak for the OTP thing as it was before my time. I'll just say that there have been plenty of disagreements about style and direction since, some of which have blown up quite spectacularly, but all of which have been amicably resolved and with no longering fallout. For some reason that one seems not to have been.

Looking up this thread in particular I see:

Fuck This Thread Fuck You Fuck RemakeQuake

Are you really so vain as to make a thread crying about the critisms of your shitty ass mod? QfuckingQ, kill yourself.

RMQ is still a shitty ass mod.

You Didn't Seriously just make a fucking forum thread about this, did you. Your site/blog whine was already pretty borderline stupid, but this is just getting pathetic.

Now where on earth is all that coming from?

There have been constant accusations that the team is ignoring criticism and suggestions. That's not true, yet the accusations continue to fly. This needs to be balanced: the mod belongs to those who are making it and they can do what they want, but at the same time if something clearly doesn't work then it needs to be addressed. Some things may be addressed immediately (did anybody notice that monster counts came back? Thought not) and some may not be addressed for a while.

The important thing here is that just because a criticism hasn't been addressed immediately it doesn't mean it's been ignored or rejected. That should be basic stuff, but some people (and OTP in particular fits the description here) really need it drilled into their skulls.

The name is what it is: a tribute. Any other perception that people take from it is purely in the eye of the beholder. I don't seem to recall anybody on the team ever having made any other claims regarding the name; everything that's been attributed to it has come from external comments. The team are certainly not putting out the idea that it's an updated better Quake - that's something that people are reading into it themselves. 
I've always been nonplussed by the name thing.

Internally it was what we wanted to emulate, an aspirational thing.

Some read it as a challenge or afront. I can't be arsed thinking my way through that.

Originally it was 'qrmq' because it was supposed to be rebuilding the original levels with Qouth content. 
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