This thread is a great read with valid points on both sides. When scar3crow contacted Romero to get the id1 map sources released, q1edge wasn't in there but maps like dm7 were and I never read the news item or look at the screenshots.

Anyways ...

Some of the guys here actually hate some of the other guys because they will/wont release the sources to their mods

"hate" is a mighty strong word; disappointed or a feeling of deception is a better substitute.

Ricky, I hope you don't truly believe the issues some have with a certain mod are related to "that they won't release the source code."

The issues that some people have is that the mod was talked about being open source, was said it was done for the community and then AFTER all the sweet talk and soliciting the community for years for ideas for the mod CHANGED their minds with no explanation for the change of heart.

This is what I call false pretenses.

It's just a game, the people behind the mod are very helpful to the community and have done many great deeds.

And yet the idea of trying to achieve widespread support through sweet talk only to have the story turn out differently ONLY AFTER widespread support is achieved is an ignoble act.

And 2 of the most hailed "mods" of that mod are in fact actual mods: Warpspasm and that one with the sound that can be turned off and on (I can't recall the name at the moment.

What is the point of an unmoddable mod? Especially when the 2 greatest works are mods of the mod?

It isn't really an expansion pack, but a limitation pack as a result.

You get new features to play with and map with, but unlike id1 or hipnotic you LOSE the ability to make modifications.

So it is not a net positive but rather 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

As RPG once said, if you like Quake today you are a defacto supporter of Open Source because you are using a modified engine which is what makes skyboxes, enhanced limits and so forth even possible.

Enough said. I just saw a comment that was either poorly phrased or the author of the comment only has a limited understanding of the issue and the history and for once I felt chatty.

One of the guys behind the mod in question is my favorite mapper of all time. 

n/t 

Baker you are awesome. 

is clearly a fucking genius! As if he didnt mean this.

btw, aenoch has a point. Not that that means willem and the others dont. 

....I didn't. The map seemed like a bit of a grey area, but the bitchy posts didn't. 

I'd guess most of us aren't angry at the copyright stuff as much as at the straight rip from another game without permission stuff. That doesn't play well in a community of creators.

Nobody would have raised a brow if it was a real remake like that shitty osp map, be it as close to the original as you want, including shitty lighting.

Shit count: 2. 

But you guys don't care. No sir, not at all. 

...why doesn't someone remake Q2DM1 for offline Quakelive play?? It's a great map, Quakelive is Q3A right?? So remake it with all the Q3A graphical shizzle, suitable textures, try to incorporate some of the tricks from the original Q2DM1....see how the gameplay pans out with Q3A... 

It is not possible dus to the copyright.... :P 

and truthfully I dont care.

I know that laws are laws, but I dont solute any flags, and sometimes laws should and can be bent, twisted and occasionally snapped.

As long as no-one gets hurt, or ripped off financially (short or long term) then I fail to see where the harm is. And if it's just a matter of principal for some people then fine, I guess I will never see eye to eye with those people (on some things).

Like when driving up a mountain pass I often drive on the wrong side of the road (when I can see that there is no oncoming traffic) so make the corners less harsh.
Is that so wrong?!!? 

I'm honestly OK with that, Ricky. Bend the laws for the purposes of fun or what have you - go for it, everyone does it. However, what I take issue with is the weak sauce justifications that these clowns often use to justify it. If they could stop that crap, I could stop breaking their balls over it. 

haven't been here for maybe half a year. I didn't see the original post, but when did func people start getting so worked up about someone making a bad quality rip?

Who cares? Some old id map for some newer id game...

It may be against the law but that's beside the point.

It's a bit like copying books that are long out of print. (Which may not be against the law but that's besides the point too.) Those who own the printing plates / rights to the material just don't bother to print any new books, even if there is demand. So they voluntarily have removed themselves from the picture.

You are providing useful services to people and not taking profit away from anyone.

Ethics is more important than the law.

There are lots of Q1 maps having Q3 textures here and there for example... I don't really know the legal issues with this and nobody in their right mind couldn't get that worked up. Mind somewhat, yes, it'd be nice if there were free textures and a completely free Quake release, with new sounds and all, and still paying some stylistic homage...

But all in all this whole rip not such a big thing. 

They forget that we can just scroll up the page and see where they're contradicting themselves.

On the other hand I agree with alot of what was said by most. There aren't sides in this, unless everyone has their own.

As to the discussion, there's a certain amount of leeway in modding and mapping to do what you like. You only hear about legals stepping in when it's a movie license.

Anyway, welcome to Func on behalf of the elitist name owning albino (for lack of sunlight) masses. 

 

Bambuzzled said that Ethics is more important than the law.

Aaaand, art is more important the the law. But ethics are more important than art. 

I heard there was this leet pro MAPPER called zlz, who is already working really really hard on the offline QL version of q2dm1.
I think he also did the level design for the smash hit Super Noah's Ark 3D, which was even ported to the famicon.

An epic classic!

All of you guys are fucking entertaining btw! 

Yahoo Search's cache has it:
http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.celephais.net%2Fboard%2Fview_thread.php%3Fid%3D60374&rd=r1&fr=yfp-t-501&u=celephais.net/board/view_thread.php%3Fid%3D60374&d=A-VqId29Tb1S&icp=1
(alternatively search for http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60374 on Yahoo and click the cache link) 

yeah, i think that's the guy! 

 

SM156_Pack is out! Go play it! 

SM156_Pack is out! Go play it!

... and moderators please close definitely this thread... 

lol, why does the Quoth source code come up in nearly every discussion? 

I wouldn't close this thread, there's too much actual discussion going on. Too bad half of it is flames, but so it goes.

I do think it would be a good idea to leave up the original thread post text and links for posterity, if there was any way to recover them (note to self: save version history of edited threads.)

And the original news item, while maybe not that interesting, isn't some sort of crime against the internet, though I guess shambler is right that it doesn't really fit into the category of things we typically post news about, such as new user-made maps and mods, new engines, new mapping tools, etc.

Actual question: since you can't play against other humans using custom quake live maps, what is this for? Just playing against bots? 

Yeah didn't really know what to do with this one. Didn't like the flames though.

There is probably a worthy discussion topic in it's own right. 

Wasn't the main argument for converted textures in Quake1 maps that Q1 is archaic, unplayed except for us and a few scary QW players (who do far worse things to the engine imo) and generally forgotten about, so converting things _to_ it was illegal but irrelevant.

Converting content to QL is a different matter. That's a currently played game with at least some modern relevance, therefore more of an issue when illegal material for it is released.

And that's without mentioning the 100s of hours it takes to create a map using stolen textures vs script-kiddie converter fun.


Oh, and couple of points on Willem and copyright; firstly, he's got better at not mentioning this (and I'm normally the first to bite him when he does), but he works at Epic and was a senior on Gears of War 2 (among various other uber games you'll have played). Since you seem to be questioning his credentials to comment on this (which rates kinda higher than the 'content' of posts which are mostly poorly formed insults).
Secondly, you posted a link to the stolen work you created and admitted to it's creation on a server hosted in the US. Therefore, US copyright law does apply (although it also applies in most countries with international agreements anyway) and more importantly, under the DMCA legislation is a crime for which you _can_ be prosectuted internationally... US law may not be all encompassing, but neither is the internet some magically place immune from the laws of countries that host it's infrastructure.


Oh, and terrible, ugly, script-converted, badly scaled, lazy and stolen maps we mind less than moronic arguments supporting them...